Live and Learn - A warning about shipping / insurance and paypal

jbs121s

jbs121s

Feedback: +106 / =0 / -0
Joined
Nov 20, 2014
Messages
814
I will try to keep this as short as possible, as it was a long drawn out ordeal. I wanted to share it here to hopefully protect others from a potentially expensive loss.

I live in Missouri, I sold a knife via eBay. The buyer lives in Australia and had me ship the knife to a US address. The US address was a friend of his who was going to forward the knife on to him. I shipped the knife and didn't hear from the buyer until around 40 days later, at that point he contacted me wishing to return the knife. By the time I got the email (within 24 hours) the buyer had started a claim with PayPal. I found the claim, accepted the return and the buyer supplied a tracking number within the allotted time.

A couple weeks later while I am again out of town the tracking number shows delivered at my home. At this time PayPal automatically closes the case and refunds the buyers money. This is where the problem started. The package had tracking, but no signature confirmation and it was left on my porch. My wife picked up the mail and packages on the porch when she got home that evening and hauled them all into my office. This is our usual routine and I get several packages a day. I return home around 5 days later and start going through the mail. The second I pick up the box from Australia I know is empty and we have a problem, I open it and confirm this. The box was sealed when I opened it, but poorly sealed. Inside I found a large piece of bubble wrap with the tape still on it, there was a large slit in the wrap where the knife was removed.

So, I immediately call PayPal and send an email to the buyer. PayPal tells me I have to start a claim and that I need to contact my local police. They started another type of case and gave me 7 days to get the report uploaded to them.

I am not in the city so I contact my local sheriffs department and they take a report. The officer was very helpful and the report went smoothly. It wasn't hard to establish that the knife was stolen somewhere in shipping. I live on a farm and we don't get random visitors. If the knife was stolen off my porch they would have either taken the entire box or shredded it and took the contents without resealing. There were also several packages from Survive Knives and Amazon on the porch that were untouched.

5 days later the report is done and I get it picked up from the department, I then upload it straight to PayPal. I also contact them by phone to make sure it is received. A few days go by and I receive an email telling me my report was not accepted. I call PayPal again and luck out getting the most helpful woman I have ever received customer support from. She can't really give me a reason why my report wasn't acceptable, but does stay on the phone with me for over 2 hours while we fill out an FBI internet crime division report and attach it to the case. She then is able to make the final decision and refund my money.

I was cussing PayPal throughout this process, ultimately they did protect me and the buyer, but they don't make it easy to get your money back. Had this been a friends and family transaction, or a money order payment there would have been no protection unless insurance had been used.

Neither the buyer nor I used insurance when shipping the knife. I do put signature confirmation on everything I send so there is at least a record of who signed for it.

LONG STORY SHORT:
Although the PayPal fees are a pain, if you are not ready to give your buyer a refund if a knife is lost or stolen then they are worth it.
If you are selling friends and family or with a money order then use insurance or be prepared to stand the loss.
Always use signature confirmation, when you sign for a package if it doesn't look or feel right then open it right then and there. The delivery person may be annoyed, but once they are gone you might be on your own.

I also need to ad that the buyer was very helpful throughout this process, he cooperated with PayPal and even contacted them on my behalf. He emailed me several times to check the status of the claim and to see if my money had been refunded. I have seen his name before and I am nearly positive he is a member on the forum. PayPal was very quick to want to blame him and tried several times to get me to say that I thought he sent back and empty package. Had I agreed to this I have no doubt they would taken the money out of his account. That is a huge problem with PayPal, by using them you agree to their rules and ultimately they are the final say when it comes to this type of thing. I 110% believe the knife was stolen during shipping whether it was in Australia or the US I am sure we will never know. I am fairly certain it would have happened while getting inspected coming into or out of one of the countries.

If you made it this far I am sorry for the long read, I just thought if I could spend a little time telling of my experience I might save someone a loss.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for taking the time to type that out...clearly stated and easy to understand...the information here is PRICELESS...

now, PM me the name of that PayPal lady, I'm gonna add her to my contacts! :p;)
 
Thanks for the read, it is always a good idea to take precautions when sending valuables. I will take this as a good reminder not to try to cheap out or take short cuts when shipping.

I'm glad it worked out for you. Shame on whoever stole the item.
 
Better fit and larger audience in feedback
 
Glad it all worked out, BUT 40 days later the buyer decided he didn't like the knife?? Really?? Unless it took 40 days to get there it sounds a bit off.
Joe
 
palonej said:
Glad it all worked out, BUT 40 days later the buyer decided he didn't like the knife?? Really?? Unless it took 40 days to get there it sounds a bit off.
Joe
Click to expand...
...... if I were to hazzard a guess I would say it sat at the US address till there was the makings of a larger box of items to ship over here as multiple knives/other gear in one package is much more economical. You are then looking at 10-15 working days for delivery from the US to here. I buy lots of blades in the US and have them shipped to a close friend or two in the US who help me with such matters. I have them inspect the knife on my behalf so I can raise any issues BEFORE they make the trip across the large pond. Given the cost of shipping each way this is a MUCH better option for both me and an involved seller.
 
That would be my guess, Andy. Also, in the buyers defense the reason he sent it back was because of a mistake in my original description of the color.
 
Thanks for sharing! Sometimes it pains me, but I do add additional insurance on anything over $100.
 
jbs121s said:
LONG STORY SHORT:
Although the PayPal fees are a pain, if you are not ready to give your buyer a refund if a knife is lost or stolen then they are worth it.
Always use signature confirmation, when you sign for a package if it doesn't look or feel right then open it right then and there. The delivery person may be annoyed, but once they are gone you might be on your own.
Click to expand...

^ This!


PeteyTwoPointOne said:
Thanks for taking the time to type that out...clearly stated and easy to understand...the information here is PRICELESS...
Click to expand...

^ +1
 
Jbs....., sorry to hear of the royal pain... But would like to say thank you for your advice on the Paypal transaction. F&F is such silly adventure, when in fact transactions are not that. Ask what your are willing to accept G&S with Paypal. A small fee for what it is.

Glad it all worked out for you... TD
 
A few points in here whenever you are dealing with eBay and with PayPal as the payment portal. I do know these because I have a none-related (to knives) eBay business;

1- when an International buyer asks you to send the item to a proxy U.S. address, whether it's a friend / family or drop off shipment, add the signature delivery request for the extra $2.35 (this is the online price whereas the actual stand-in-line price may be slightly higher) for transactions over a certain amount (your own comfort level). Adding insurance sometimes avoids the need to also add for signature because if the item is over a certain amount, the USPS carrier will have to get a signature. I am not sure as to what the threshold is. Careful to select the USPS insurance as eBay by default purchases insurance from a third party unless you catch that and switch over to the USPS.

2- if someone should not be available to sign for the said package, the carrier ALWAYS leaves an attempted delivery slip (peach light brown color) which sometimes get mixed up with the rest of your mail if you don't pick up your mail on a daily basis which can easily end up in the trash with the junk mail. Most carrier affix this to the addressee's front door or similar when access is available. If the addressee does not go to pick the package up within a period of 15 business days or does not arrange for a re-delivery attempt within the said period, the item will be returned to the sender!

3- at the end the above factors just may diminish your chances of a loss but they do not totally exonerate you from losses or totally cover you in such cases. If the OP's spouse had signed for the said package without noticing the weight, he would have had to go through the same process. If you happen to immediately notice some sort of malfeasance going on, the carrier is a Federal employee and can be a good witness for you in such cases provided that you open the package right there in front of him.

4- sadly doing any kind of business has its losses and the online business transactions can at times exacerbate those experiences. How much professionalism you display and exert in handling your business will mitigate your loss factor.

Good luck.
 
Casinostocks said:
1- when an International buyer asks you to send the item to a proxy U.S. address, whether it's a friend / family or drop off shipment, add the signature delivery request for the extra $2.35 (this is the online price whereas the actual stand-in-line price may be slightly higher) for transactions over a certain amount (your own comfort level). Adding insurance sometimes avoids the need to also add for signature because if the item is over a certain amount, the USPS carrier will have to get a signature. I am not sure as to what the threshold is. Careful to select the USPS insurance as eBay by default purchases insurance from a third party unless you catch that and switch over to the USPS.
Click to expand...

When this is the case, goods bought with PayPal from an international buyer and shipped to an in country proxy, does it make a difference if the proxy address is linked to the PayPal account?

I would think that if you ship it to an address that is not associated to the PayPal account, it would make it easier to get screwed over on a "non delivered" item.

I've never sold out of country or used a proxy, so am curious to hear from those who have.
 
benchwarmer380 said:
When this is the case, goods bought with PayPal from an international buyer and shipped to an in country proxy, does it make a difference if the proxy address is linked to the PayPal account?

I would think that if you ship it to an address that is not associated to the PayPal account, it would make it easier to get screwed over on a "non delivered" item.

I've never sold out of country or used a proxy, so am curious to hear from those who have.
Click to expand...

The buyer has the option to change his address when he is checking out by adding another address. PayPal will show that address to be "unconfirmed" since it is not linked to the buyer's bank card or credit card, unless the buyer has already established that proxy address as a confirmed PP address (we actually see this quite a lot of times). Even if the goods are being shipped to a domestic address, the seller will still be charged the higher PP fees of 3.9% plus the transaction fee, as opposed to 2.9% + the fee for a domestically domiciled buyer.

The thing NOT to do is as follows: if someone pays you and then asks you in an email to ship to another address which is not reflected in his PP payment, i.e, his place of business/he moved/his GF's/his mom's/his mom's GF/etc; DO NOT DO THIS! Refund the transaction and politely tell him to repurchase or to send funds again with the new address already added onto his PP. Again, do not accept other addresses give as a note with payment instructions. Most people are not nefarious but why take a chance. If they want it that badly, they will understand your policies and will repurchase under your terms.
 
Casinostocks said:
A few points in here whenever you are dealing with eBay and with PayPal as the payment portal. I do know these because I have a none-related (to knives) eBay business;

1- when an International buyer asks you to send the item to a proxy U.S. address, whether it's a friend / family or drop off shipment, add the signature delivery request for the extra $2.35 (this is the online price whereas the actual stand-in-line price may be slightly higher) for transactions over a certain amount (your own comfort level). Adding insurance sometimes avoids the need to also add for signature because if the item is over a certain amount, the USPS carrier will have to get a signature. I am not sure as to what the threshold is. Careful to select the USPS insurance as eBay by default purchases insurance from a third party unless you catch that and switch over to the USPS.

2- if someone should not be available to sign for the said package, the carrier ALWAYS leaves an attempted delivery slip (peach light brown color) which sometimes get mixed up with the rest of your mail if you don't pick up your mail on a daily basis which can easily end up in the trash with the junk mail. Most carrier affix this to the addressee's front door or similar when access is available. If the addressee does not go to pick the package up within a period of 15 business days or does not arrange for a re-delivery attempt within the said period, the item will be returned to the sender!

3- at the end the above factors just may diminish your chances of a loss but they do not totally exonerate you from losses or totally cover you in such cases. If the OP's spouse had signed for the said package without noticing the weight, he would have had to go through the same process. If you happen to immediately notice some sort of malfeasance going on, the carrier is a Federal employee and can be a good witness for you in such cases provided that you open the package right there in front of him.

4- sadly doing any kind of business has its losses and the online business transactions can at times exacerbate those experiences. How much professionalism you display and exert in handling your business will mitigate your loss factor.
Click to expand...

^ Great information/advice! Especially the last sentence! ^^^^^ :thumbup:

Casinostocks said:
The buyer has the option to change his address when he is checking out by adding another address. PayPal will show that address to be "unconfirmed" since it is not linked to the buyer's bank card or credit card, unless the buyer has already established that proxy address as a confirmed PP address (we actually see this quite a lot of times). Even if the goods are being shipped to a domestic address, the seller will still be charged the higher PP fees of 3.9% plus the transaction fee, as opposed to 2.9% + the fee for a domestically domiciled buyer.

The thing NOT to do is as follows: if someone pays you and then asks you in an email to ship to another address which is not reflected in his PP payment, i.e, his place of business/he moved/his GF's/his mom's/his mom's GF/etc; DO NOT DO THIS! Refund the transaction and politely tell him to repurchase or to send funds again with the new address already added onto his PP. Again, do not accept other addresses give as a note with payment instructions. Most people are not nefarious but why take a chance. If they want it that badly, they will understand your policies and will repurchase under your terms.
Click to expand...

^ :thumbup:
 
You are very welcome! Years of experience dealing with eBay / PayPal as a seller and glad I can pass on some advice, FWIW. Paying it forward ;)
 
LONG STORY SHORT: The U.S. is a large country with a lot of people in it..if something can't be sold and shipped in the U.S. then it wasn't meant to be. I'll live with it.
 
Why didn't the internal USPS investigaors investigate it?.. Local police have nothing to do with USPS investigations. Matter of fact they can't go on their property of USPS to investigate anything.

Is it because the package was left on your doorstep? If so, what is the difference if it was left in your mailbox?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top