Living In The Wild

[darkestthicket]

good luck Vivi!

Edit: im interested in details and wish i could take a full month off and hang out in the woods the whole time. i dont think that would be boring at all (most time in woods for me straight is 2 weeks)

 

[Vivi]

I haven't been truely bored in a good 6 years anyways. I just find myself always having so much to think about that I never have a chance to be bored. Oh well. I accidently passed out, so I'll go take those photos now. Sorry for the wait.

 

[GibsonFan]

Did I miss something somewhere or did you completely overlook a map and compass? Put 'em in a ziplock with your notepad. I've gotten maps of the state parks I camp in that are just one sheet of paper but definitely have enough info to get me back to a phone or gas station somewhere. I'm thinking of scanning pages out of my state atlas for the same purpose...

I agree with a plant-ID book too. And a good paperback novel and the treat/candy bar/etc of your choice if you're going out for days at a time! Nothing wrong with sitting in the sun with a book and a snack once you've got a shelter etc. established... it's supposed to be enjoyable

But if nothing else, the compass for sure.

 

[Vivi]

I have a pocket-sized Bhuddism book that'd fit the bill perfectly. Here are those shelter photos I promised. Front view from close and a bit further back, view of each side and a close-up of the bedding. It's three thick branches propped up against one fallen tree with two more across the top of the two. Smaller branches layed across those, then covered with leafy branches:

I keep a water bottle there to help me retrive water from the stream to put out the fire. Where you see all the ash is where I'd keep the embers going to stay warm. I need to do something about that spot though, it's real obvious it's been used for fire.

 

[Coldwood]

Nice work, Vivi, it's fascinating to read and hear from people who actually get out and do things.

 

[runningboar]

Vivi,

FOOD and WATER

I think if you went into the wilderness with the gear list in your first post it could be considered attempted suicide. What are you going to eat, it is damn hard to forage, gather, hunt and scavage enough calories to keep you alive, depending on where you are in the world. I would not go into the wilderness without at least 500 calories a day, 1000 would be even better, and then if it is a rough year you can count on losing a bunch of weight. In my first post I mentioned a 22, you said you would not take a firearm or could not see a reason for it, how about to fill your gut.

I have no idea how accomplished a hunter, fisherman, trapper you are but you better get good quick. I would have a good 22 rifle, an extensive fishing kit and several conibears, as others have mentioned. I would set the traps, set limb lines and trotlines and hunt with the rifle while foraging, and that hopefully will keep my gut full depending on where I am and how lean the year was. I have hunted in January in a bad mast year and not been able to find or kill so much as a sparrow, if it is a year like that when you try your survival trip you are in trouble. You keep talking about a book of edible plants for the region you are in, you better make sure before hand that the wild plants you plan on eating are actually plentiful enough to count on as a food source, indigenous does not mean prolific.

You also need a cook pot, a tin cup ain't going to cut it, to boil water and prepare food, a case of dysentary in the backwoods will kill you. Me and my best friend used to go on survival trips with a tarp, cook pot, sleeping bags, fishing gear, 12 gauge, cornmeal, and a hunk of fatback, I have eaten everything that lives on the east coast including bugs, blue jays, cardinals and any other bird that I could kill, squirrel roasted over an open fire on a green stick that was so tough it was like eating hickory smoked rawhide. After a 5 day trip I distinctly remember me and my friend stopping at a curb store and each of us buying a 12 pack of little debbie pecan twirls and a half gallon of milk and ate all of it sitting in the parking lot, it was the best food I have ever eaten, multiply that by 6.

SHELTER

If you try to build a shelter with the tools in your gear list to live in for 30 days, or one like the one in your pics, in bad weather rain and snow, again you are in serious trouble. You need a good tarp and the best sleeping bag you can afford, a good closed cell foam ground pad or two, and a tyvek ground cloth. With nothing but the clothes on your back and a raincoat, you are one slip at the lake or creek, or a really bad storm away from death by hypothermia.

My beautiful wife just told me supper is ready and I am hungry, so I will continue at a later date, if anyone is interested. Chris

OK I am back Vivi this is a qoute,

As far as guns go, I think if I were to carry one it would be a small pistol. Carrying a bunch of knives around wandering through possibly private property at times is already asking for it, I don't think I need to have to worry about Gun Laws. Minor legal details aside, I just don't perceive much use for them outside of violent human encounters.

KILL ANIMALS TO EAT, that is the primary use, secondary is defense in a survival situation.

Vivi my best advice is to look at gear lists from AT through hikers, and then start paring it down from there but a trip like you are talking about with minimum gear is extremely difficult, especially if Mr. Murphy rears his ugly head, for Christ sake you didn't even know what poke salet is. Chris

 

[MEatVT]

Sweet thread...

Bring a good bag. I spent just over a week last winter in a 3 season bag, I thought I could make up the difference with a wool blanket...nope. Shivering all night long, every single night, will make you feel like total crap. Youll have lost almost all your spirits and start begging for the end of the trip. Maybe its not as big of a deal since youre talking fall instead of dead winter. Just what sticks out in my mind when I think about stuff I wish I had planned better for.

 

[fnc]

Vivi,

Please take our comments in a positive way, because
I think all of us wish you well. You need to rethink a
lot of issues in a major way.

1) As noted in previous posts, 30 days is too long,
for good learning and probably enjoyment,
for a beginner.

2) You are trying to learn Wilderness skills in a non-
wilderness environment. Skills can be practiced, but
the dangers are different. If you get cold and hungry,
you can easily walk out, but in true Wilderness, walking
out with little food is problematic.
A larger danger, in this Ohio environment, is that people
will detect you, and may take out their agressions on you.
That is just one of the differences.

3) Your knowledge and preparations are so minimal that it
is hard for us to respond. We could go with your minimalist
approach as a survival experiment or just say nobody goes
to "live" in the wilderness with so little prep knowledge and
gear. Listen to what Runningboar has said. If you really want
to Simulate a Wilderness Living experience, take more and
better gear.

Sleeping bag and insulated clothing (pants also) are needed.
Otherwise you will 1) be burning huge amounts of calories and
2) you will have to have a substancial fire, always. This will
mean you will be gathering huge amounts of wood. The
gathering and burning constantly will make you easier to detect.
Cops, renta-Cops, and self-appointed enforcers may show up
to have some fun.

Do not park you car in a place that raises suspicion.

fnc

 

[Tballetta]

I am compelled to voice this opinion of primative living experiments.

I find it interesting and a bit disturbing that some believe that 30 days in the wilderness or more with minimal gear is somehow a quest we might undertake to get in touch with our ancestors. It comes with way to much of a romantic notion. Seems very similar to overly rich overly bored people who think it would be cool to take on Everest. We all know how that works out.

Our ancestors, like American Natives, never would attempt such dangerous nonsense. They lived in the wilderness because thats what their circumstances dictated. And they never did it with minimal gear. They did it with all the best gear they good muster. A lifetime of it in fact. American Natives were not born with nothing and then started figuring the wilderness out at adolesence or middleage for that matter. They were born into it and learned it everyday of their lives with instruction and gear from their elders for generations. They were provided for just as we were as children not dumped into the world.

Wilderness survival is no game! It is serious business not to be attempted by starry eyed adventure seekers.

I imagine it would be the same effect if you grabbed an American Native from 300 years ago and dropped him on Wall Street with a couple of years of schooling under his belt and a brown paper sack with some paper and pencils in it and told him to survive. Wouldn't go well.

Get the best gear you can. Get all the knowledge you can. Practice your skills like a professional athlete practices and then and only then and only if you have too head into the woods alone.

There is no way any American Native would try it but if you must you must.

I wish you well.

 

[runningboar]

I am compelled to voice this opinion of primative living experiments.

I find it interesting and a bit disturbing that some believe that 30 days in the wilderness or more with minimal gear is somehow a quest we might undertake to get in touch with our ancestors. It comes with way to much of a romantic notion. Seems very similar to overly rich overly bored people who think it would be cool to take on Everest. We all know how that works out.

Our ancestors, like American Natives, never would attempt such dangerous nonsense. They lived in the wilderness because thats what their circumstances dictated. And they never did it with minimal gear. They did it with all the best gear they good muster. A lifetime of it in fact. American Natives were not born with nothing and then started figuring the wilderness out at adolesence or middleage for that matter. They were born into it and learned it everyday of their lives with instruction and gear from their elders for generations. They were provided for just as we were as children not dumped into the world.

Wilderness survival is no game! It is serious business not to be attempted by starry eyed adventure seekers.

I imagine it would be the same effect if you grabbed an American Native from 300 years ago and dropped him on Wall Street with a couple of years of schooling under his belt and a brown paper sack with some paper and pencils in it and told him to survive. Wouldn't go well.

Get the best gear you can. Get all the knowledge you can. Practice your skills like a professional athlete practices and then and only then and only if you have too head into the woods alone.

There is no way any American Native would try it but if you must you must.

I wish you well.

Good Post, and many primitive peoples starved to death, nature is a cruel mistress, take her lightly and pay with your life. Survival is not a game, and if you like to practice, always have a safety net, a working cell phone with coverage, better yet a sat phone if you can afford it, or just a plan of how to check in every few days through notes or however, bottom line have fun learning but don't take unnecessay risks. Chris

 

[Vivi]

FNC, don't worry, I'm posting this to get the critical type of responses I am getting. It's what I need. A combination of LOTS of research on my part, good advice from people with more experience than me and getting out there and experimenting with everything for trips a day to a week long. I appreciate any sincere advice given here. FYI (And others), I don't mean this fall for the proposed adventure. I don't know that I'll even be ready a year from now. All depends on what happens in the next couple of months.

 

[jackknife]

A heck of alot of very good posts here!

A really good sleeping bag will very important as a waterproof place to sleep, and have as a base. A plastic tarp is a good leanto covering, and make it long enough to cover the floor too. You can get plastic sheeting in the form of disposable paint drop cloths at Walmart. Frame your shelter and cover it with the tarp, then use brush over it to hide it from casual view. The plastic sheet can be rolled up into a small lightweight roll.

For keeping warm I've had better luck with real wool garments than the polyfleece stuff. I've tried the synthetic fleece for the last several years, but have went back to my old wool standbys. A Filson wool coat and vest, and real wool sweater has a great temprature range, is durable, and most of all won't melt from campfire sparks. Ernest Shackelton's men survived outlandish conditions on a close to two year ordeal with it. They slept on the ice pack wrapped in wool blankets. Problem is its heavy.

If there is a river or lake, set bushbobs in the early evening, and check them in the morning. Fish is a good source of proteen.

A saw is a quieter way to go, no chopping noise. A gerber sliding blade saw is only a couple of onces, about the weight of a number 12 opinel, but worth it weight. Make a reflector for that fire out of some limbs. A two sided reflector will also cut down the visibility of your fire by people at night.

Good idea on the sticks. A good staff about mid-rib high is good, as is a short one about the length of your forarm for keeping beside your bedroll for close range use. Bevel one end and fire harden it.

 

[Vivi]

A lot of these recommendations are very good and I'm going to be seriously considering everything being said here. At this stage of the game, I wish to educate myself as much as possible in preparation.

One question that is still niggling at my mind though, is does anyone know a good location for this? Densely wooded, away from people, non-owned land, fresh water nearby and some wildlife and edible plants hopefully. I would very much like to check out any area I plan to do this beforehand, so if I could go there this fall or next spring to have a look that'd be helpful in my planning.

 

[fnc]

I would not make the location public, in advance.

I do not know if this forum supports Personal Messages,
but failing that, you cold make an email account on
Hotmail.com for this kind of communication.

Some farmers might let you hunt or trap nuisance animals
like wild pigs and you might parley that into a longer stay.
Different states have different laws; you may not need a
license.

Helping a local trapper on his trapline could be very instructive.
Then you could cover his line and give him a day off.

Locally watch where people and animals go. Look for parked cars,
trash, tracks, trails, depressed grass. After a snow fall, make an
effort to drive around an area and see what tracks are going in
and out. A 1 inch snow on bare ground is perfect.

I would avoid any area where you expect homeless people,
teen drinking parties, moonshiners, MaryJane growers,
bird watchers, game hunters, etc. This only leaves 5 acres
in North Dakota. he Haw.

Get to know which kind of Law Enforcement Officers do what
and where. Do not make yourself noteable.

If you join, or go on a club trip, you can learn a lot about where
the clubs normally go. Some actually publish a schedule of exactly
where they are going. Clubs such as hiking (college,Sierra,other)
ski, bird-watchers, rock-hounds. Friends at work or school might
belong to these clubs. Club members often know trail heads and
public access over private land, that you would not imagine.

Get some Recreation Maps. There is an atlas published for every
state. Keep it in your car so you can pull it out whenever somebody
mentions "a place"; you can zero in on exactly where. A recent
road map, with as many small roads as possible, is also needed.

fnc

 

[wagamichi]

My first question would be, Do you have any formal training in wood craft? Did you just read a book? make it up in your head?

Having gear, or hunting a lot is different than "surviving". "Surviving" is different than "Thriving"! If you studied karate, and were at an ATM at 2am. A man stabbed you in the back and took your cash, and you lived...you "survived"! Take that same analogy to the woods...and that does not sound like much fun.

There are courses you can take, expensive, but you will learn real skills that can be applied. If you can not go into the woods and "thrive" you have no business doing this sort of self test. (at least without the ability to quit at any time...But then that's not a true test is it?).

I train fighters...Every now and then I get the occasional tough guy that "fights" a lot in "teh streets". I usually turn the fantasy fighters away. But others put them in the cage and the outcome is usually the same. bloody and stupid. These fighters think watching every UFC ever made and being "bad" negate proper training and technique. I can think of no opponent that has killed more adversaries than mother nature.

Larp on dude...and may the gods of fools protect you.

 

[Ravaillac]

I have a pocket-sized Bhuddism book that'd fit the bill perfectly. Here are those shelter photos I promised. Front view from close and a bit further back, view of each side and a close-up of the bedding. It's three thick branches propped up against one fallen tree with two more across the top of the two. Smaller branches layed across those, then covered with leafy branches:

That shelter may have some thermal efficiency but it would stop any kind of rain: material wouldn't be efficient enough for such nearly flat roof. With such material you should be looking for a roof angle about 60°, or you could use better material: looks like there was a lot of bark around.

 

[Vivi]

I was intending to collect bark and layer that on top with various debris for some water and snow protection. I have more complex, sheltered constructions in other parts of that area that I like better though.

There are courses you can take, expensive, but you will learn real skills that can be applied. If you can not go into the woods and "thrive" you have no business doing this sort of self test.

Ideally I'll be able to take some hands-on courses with people who really know their stuff, but I'm not counting on such luck. The whole point to this thread and my self-education is so that I can thrive in the woods. Naturally that means I currently cannot, and I'm seeking to change that. I'm not looking for alternatives at this point, just seeking out advice from people who have more experience than me (Read: most all of you) for someone with limited funds, knowledge and places to practice who is set on doing something like this in the next few years. Skills to learn, tools to familiarize myself with, plants and animals to become knowledgable about...that sort of thing.

I do what I can. I set my expectations as high as anyone and I really strive to live up to them. I genuinely believe I'll be able to do this in a reasonable amount of time and if I die trying, I will accept my death on the account of my own foolishness. If I succeed, it will mean living out my true dreams and overcoming a challenge that other people laugh at the idea of tackling. I feel it's important to give a strong effort towards whatever you find matters to you in life. To many of you, that's family, a noble and selfless endevour. To some, it may be crafting knives we all so love to admire. To me, I feel a need to seriously alter the lifestlye I've been raised in. Something with true freedom, independance, challenge, danger and reward.

 

[reconseed]

vivi, be safe out there. you have some great shelters with what you said you made them out of and with what you took... how far is this from your house?

as some of the others have stated, and some of them are like myself - military folk - (not that i am anywhere near trained as some like boar are) and they know their stuff.. please take their advice in stride and make note of it... we want to see more shelters in the future from your camera and not reading about another chris mccandless here in a few months or something.. stay safe and train hard. Godbless.

 

[wagamichi]

Ideally I'll be able to take some hands-on courses with people who really know their stuff, but I'm not counting on such luck. The whole point to this thread and my self-education is so that I can thrive in the woods. Naturally that means I currently cannot, and I'm seeking to change that. I'm not looking for alternatives at this point, just seeking out advice from people who have more experience than me (Read: most all of you) for someone with limited funds, knowledge and places to practice who is set on doing something like this in the next few years. Skills to learn, tools to familiarize myself with, plants and animals to become knowledgable about...that sort of thing.

Well that's a good start...and your attitude is one of student and not foolish adventurer. Good luck finding your way. For limited funds and so forth I would suggest you "train" in this fashion.

Establish the fundamentals:

shelter,fire making, water gathering, food gathering, implement building, cloths making.

I would suggest you do the following:

learn as much as you can about shelter making, the different types, and materials. Then go out and practice making them. once you can do this take all your camping equipment but no tent! stay 3 days in your construct.

Next learn to make fire! practice at home until you can do it with different items and in different weather conditions. Then go out, make a shelter, but leave the matches and lighter. stay a couple of days.

Next, learn how to gather and clean water. Ohio is going to have a lot of chemical contaminants so bio hazards are not the only thing you have to contend with. distilling will probably be your best bet unless you take a pump. Once you have these skills, go out, Leave the water at home, make a shelter, make fire, make clean water. stay 3 days. at this point if you are having problems with these basics it will show.

Next, learn to snare and trap. it is much more efficient than hunting (not as much fun...but you can put out 20 traps in a few hours.) once you can make 4 or 5 good traps quickly in the safety of your back yard...go out, leave the food at home. make the shelter....you get the point.

One other skill that is over looked is utensil making. learn to weave baskets, make cord, and so forth. It sucks to find that payload of raspberries and not have anything to put them in to take back to camp. eventually you want to be able to make cord for your traps.

When you can do these things...you are ready for the "fight".

I would not be concerned about cloths making yet. but another good skill. tanning hides in the wild for use as cloths and shoes.

 

[Vivi]

vivi, be safe out there. you have some great shelters with what you said you made them out of and with what you took... how far is this from your house?

as some of the others have stated, and some of them are like myself - military folk - (not that i am anywhere near trained as some like boar are) and they know their stuff.. please take their advice in stride and make note of it... we want to see more shelters in the future from your camera and not reading about another chris mccandless here in a few months or something.. stay safe and train hard. Godbless.

The great thing about that place is it's a 5 minute walk from my house. I could sprint down there in under 2 minutes if I wanted. It's literally right where my neighborhood ends, in between mine and another, with a busy road on the north side and a golf course on the south. This is why it's a pretty safe, secure area for me to practice things. No one really goes back there. I think the sewage plant next to it throws people off due to the smell.

One of the great things about this forum that seperates it from many others is that I can be called a moron here, but I'm usually given some genuine concern along with the condenscending tones. I can tell the people in this thread mean well no matter how they choose to word themselves.

Well that's a good start...and your attitude is one of student and not foolish adventurer. Good luck finding your way. For limited funds and so forth I would suggest you "train" in this fashion.

Establish the fundamentals:

shelter,fire making, water gathering, food gathering, implement building, cloths making.

I would suggest you do the following:

learn as much as you can about shelter making, the different types, and materials. Then go out and practice making them. once you can do this take all your camping equipment but no tent! stay 3 days in your construct.

Next learn to make fire! practice at home until you can do it with different items and in different weather conditions. Then go out, make a shelter, but leave the matches and lighter. stay a couple of days.

Next, learn how to gather and clean water. Ohio is going to have a lot of chemical contaminants so bio hazards are not the only thing you have to contend with. distilling will probably be your best bet unless you take a pump. Once you have these skills, go out, Leave the water at home, make a shelter, make fire, make clean water. stay 3 days. at this point if you are having problems with these basics it will show.

Next, learn to snare and trap. it is much more efficient than hunting (not as much fun...but you can put out 20 traps in a few hours.) once you can make 4 or 5 good traps quickly in the safety of your back yard...go out, leave the food at home. make the shelter....you get the point.

One other skill that is over looked is utensil making. learn to weave baskets, make cord, and so forth. It sucks to find that payload of raspberries and not have anything to put them in to take back to camp. eventually you want to be able to make cord for your traps.

When you can do these things...you are ready for the "fight".

I would not be concerned about cloths making yet. but another good skill. tanning hides in the wild for use as cloths and shoes.

I like adventuring, but I've learned theres a big difference between just taking a pleasure walk through a place and intending to live and thrive in said place. I'm spending what money I do have on any material that would be useful to me. Today I bought an anatomy book, I have army medical guides, primitive living books, astrology books, trying to get plant identification books and so forth. I'm trying to absorb as much knowledge about anything that might be relevent to my situation as I can before I'm actually out in the red. I intend to depend on knowledge, experience and skills primarily, with the gear I bring along being of lesser dependance.

Shelter making I feel I understand most of the key concepts of. Looking for lots of overhanging branches if you need rain protection, looking for natural shelters to form yours around to save time and energy, forming heat reflectors to add potency to the fire etc. I've built a handful of them over the past few months, but I still need to do more for practice. One thing I'd really like is if I could get to different locations to practice in varied terrain and with different materials.

With fire I feel very adept with the basics. I've gotten good at stopping and inspecting anything that looks like it would make good tinder, I understand the principles in constructing the base and frame of the fire, keeping materials dry, efficient ways of feeding the fire etc. I can do them good in rain, but ral heavy downpours I haven't had as much practice in. I'd like to prepare for the worst. Friction fire starting I've played around with some and started maybe 10-15 successful fires with it. I need to do much more work with that if I'm ever going to be dependant on it though, especially in wet conditions.

Snaring and trapping I've done extremely little of. Reading on these forums has led me to believe it's a good method to use. I've practiced a few traps, but there's another area that I could work at much, much more.

The whole water thing I've read about a lot from various sides of the issue, but I haven't really done anything with it myself. I've practiced some collection methods like getting dew off of plants and such, but I haven't tried purifying any water around here because it all seems so contaminated. I don't want to die before I even try what I'm getting at, you know?

Cordage I can usually do pretty well, I used to braid bracelets and things as a kid so it feels fairly natural to me. I saw a design fo rusing dead pine needles to weave a basket, I'll have to try that one.

Thanks for the response.