Living In The Wild

Vivi,

May be i missed it but in your gear list i didn't see a whetstone. I'm used to put my own gear list on this scale: essential, necessary, useful; the whetstone is on: essential.
Il like the minimalist way you follow and wish you luck and pleasure in your experiments. Let us know what happens.

dantzk.
 
Vivi,

I would suggest that you start hunting, fishing and trapping you are going to have to feed yourself in the wild, gathering plant food is only going to go so far. You mentioned that there is a poluted stream close to the woods you frequent, if it has fish, it is a great place to practice techniques, even though you can't eat the fish there you can practice catching them and release to catch again another day. I am sure that there is a stream, lake or pond near by that you can use to practice fishing if you are not already an accomplished fisherman, this is one thing that surprised me about Chris McCandless, I don't remember any reference to him fishing.

From your other posts I get the idea you do not have a gun or hunt, this is a very important skill for wilderness survival. Decent guns to hunt with are not as expensive as you may think, I would suggest a used 20 gauge single shot shotgun. With this gun you can take both large and small game just by changing the load, as has been mentioned before a 22 is also a very good choice. A 22 is small, light, accurate, shoots quitely, compared to other calibers, and absolutely lethal to animals up to the size of raccoons, in a true survival situation, with good marksmanship, perhaps quite a bit bigger and ammo is very cheap and plentiful. A used bolt action single shot from any of the major manufacturers would be a good place to start. You should be able to find either the shotgun or 22 for under 100 dollars.

Still another route is black powder guns, the long hunters, courier de bois, trappers, and mountain men of the 18th and 19th century were definitely survivors, and depended on muskets and black powder rifles to fill their pot. I had a post earlier about the virtues of a muzzle loading shotgun as a primary survival gun. In most states black powder guns can be ordered and delivered through the mail.

Trapping, you mentioned that you practice building snares, have you actually caught animals in them? If not keep working on your techniques until you do then clean, prepare cook and eat what you catch. Several of us have suggested conibear body grip traps, order some through the mail and learn to use, set, bait and actually catch animals with them, an actual situation is not the time to learn how to catch your food.

I am not suggesting you do anything illegal, always have permission to be on the land you are using or utilize public land. Have the appropriate license and obtain your firearms legally, do not poach game, either by hunting or trapping.

Also build and get in the habit of carrying a first aid kit, even if it is very basic, a stomach problem or common cold in the wild that keeps you from foraging or hunting for a few days might be what puts you over the edge. It would suck to die from something that a little immodium AD would have cured, or a cut you could have easily closed or kept from getting infected.

I hope I have given you some good ideas, living in the woods is my life, and has been for as long as I can remember. I know I am not as good as a bunch of folks on this site, but a good portion of the food that makes it to my dinner table is provided by my own hand.;)
 
I have to say this is one of the best threads I have encountered on this forum.

The knowledge and the willingness to share it so freely is fun and educational.

The most apparent part that I hope Vivi understands is that you must have the ultimate respect of Mother Nature and never ever underestimate her potential wrath. I can hear here that even the most expierienced understand this and never take it lightly.

Vivi, I'm impressed with your honest self evaluation and attitude towards learning.

As your knowledge builds it would be useful to you to also let your humility and respect build as well. These attributes will ultimatley be your best survival skill.
 
Interesting thread! :thumbup:

I have to say though, that only having 1 item of clothing (socks etc.) is really going to be hazardous once it starts raining / snowing / after first week. Where's your medical / first-aid kit? Where are you going to crap and how are you going to stay clean for a month?
 
Boar, I'll look into the rifles. I'm not opposed to learning to use them and all, I just don't see myself bringing one on this adventure. As it stands I have a stronger interest in primitive archery. I have a couple of the archery threads from this forum open right now.

Either way, it would be nice of someone could inform me or point me to a source detailing what is required to purchase a rifle like Boar describes for my purposes.

NV, I'd crap in a hole in the ground and since I plan to do this near a decent water source, I could just wash off with a rag or something, being mindful not to dirty up the stream in the process.

I really need to edit that list now. That was just what I thought of when making the post, I was more focused on getting responses going. Which happened, but I know there are things I'll consider that aren't up there and I don't want to have redundancy or anything.
 
A couple of reality checks. First of all, In the northeastern US, short of injury or illness, it would is unlikely to meet a bad end if one had solid skills and basic gear. Yes 30 days is too long and even for an experienced woodsman it would be strenuous. But...anyone who needed to walk out would have little difficulty finding a road, a farm or, if he walked far enough, a McDonalds. Also, using Chris McCandles as a model or someone to emulate is off base. McCandless was a self absorbed, arrogent young man who, like the character in Jack London's "To Build a Fire", was "without imagination" and refused to heed the advice of those who actually understood the Alaskan bush.
 
woodsmoke said:
A couple of reality checks. First of all, In the northeastern US, short of injury or illness, it would is unlikely to meet a bad end if one had solid skills and basic gear. Yes 30 days is too long and even for an experienced woodsman it would be strenuous. But...anyone who needed to walk out would have little difficulty finding a road, a farm or, if he walked far enough, a McDonalds. Also, using Chris McCandles as a model or someone to emulate is off base. McCandless was a self absorbed, arrogent young man who, like the character in Jack London's "To Build a Fire", was "without imagination" and refused to heed the advice of those who actually understood the Alaskan bush.
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Agreed, word for word. Vivi's posts reminded me very much of Chris' writings, the zen of nature and all that, that is why I started using his example. Agreed the northeastern US is much different from Alaska, but still has some very remote areas. My biggest reason for getting so involved in ths thread from Vivi's post and gear list he IMO was drasticly underpacked and did not have the skill base yet for an undertaking of this magnitude. After getting to know Vivi a bit better I realize that he is in the planning/learning phase and is very willing to listen to others and take advice, which McCandless refused to do.

Vivi,
I have no idea of your states gun laws, they vary quite a bit, go to a local gun shop and ask, they should be more than willing to help you out. Chris
 
Vivi said:
Either way, it would be nice of someone could inform me or point me to a source detailing what is required to purchase a rifle like Boar describes for my purposes.
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You can order smokepoles from Cabelas - and they've got all the accoutrements, as well:

http://cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templ...720&parentType=category&rid=&indexId=cat20720

Take running boar's advice to heart - it is not easy to gather enough calories in the wild. This is why a fire, sleeping bag, warm clothing, shelter from the elements are all of such great value - they decrease the need to gather as many calories from the environment.

Animals move and feed when the barometric pressure drops - this is an attempt to gather enough calories before an approaching storm. Animals cannot build a fire to sustain themselves during inclement weather - they must produce their own heat. It is a constant battle against the second law of thermodynamics.

You might want to check these people out: http://www.teachingdrum.org/index.html

They may suit your tastes as teachers - or they may not. They do have a one-year program which is relatively primitive from what I can tell.

Please be aware that people have always lived in groups. To be exiled into the wilderness was the equivalent of a death sentence. It is very difficult to survive for any length of time as a solitary individual. I believe this is primarily due to the amount of labor required to gather and process calories. Without a division of labor among groups of people, the necessary level of efficiency will not be achieved to create a viable living situation. Consider that a Native American tribe probably had one person dedicated to flint-knapping. He or she probably did other chores, but their basic job was making stone tools for the entire tribe. Why? It's simply inefficient for everyone to make their own tools. If you spend time flint-knapping, you're not going to have as much time to gather firewood, or check your traps, or hunt.

In the end, it's all a balance - a good fire is going to prevent you having to fill your belly with as much food every night. A good sleeping bag is going to prevent you needing as good a fire. A good knife is going to prevent you needing to knap a cutting tool. And if you're not knapping you can go check your trap line. And if you trap a large enough animal and cure it properly, you won't need as big a fire and as good a sleeping bag because you'll have enough fat and protein in your gut to keep you warm.
 
Man this thread really has me thinking.

I grew up in the Catskill Mts. In New York in the 60's and 70's. I spent the major part of my youth in the woods. I mean alot of time. I've hunted all over those parts, I've fished every lake, pond ,stream, and puddle. I cut firewood every summer and fall. I worked as a surveyor and our specialty was mountainous terrain so I walked every where in my parts.

You may know that where I grew up, Sullivan County, NY is world renown for its deer hunting and trout fishing.

Why do I tell you this? Because I can't tell you how many times I went days in a row getting skunked, and I had good 20th century gear to hunt and fish with. I can't imagine what it would be like with primative stuff.

I walk the terrain summer and winter for a living and as beautiful as it is its tough going.

I can't even calculate how much time I put in splitting firewood for opur wood stove that was used for supplemental heating and ambiance in our house. And I did it with a hydraulic splitter. It was never enough and it was hard as hell work. No way can I imagine trying to gather enough wood for an extended survival situation with only a knife.

I slept outdoors many times and as I recall I hated it always. I never got a great nights sleep.

Respect to our fore fathers. What a brutal life they must have lived.

I think I don't spend much extended time in the woods anymore because of these expeiriences. I guess I've gotten a little soft.

Good luck to anyone who gives this a try. It will be an extreemly difficult challenge. If you pull it off you are a better man than I.
 
It seems to me that the first thing a pioneer wanted when planning a survival trip/exploration etc was a good horse :) If you truly had to you could even carve a steak off ol' Betsy.

All kidding aside, I think you're nuts if you don't bring a compass, map and more socks, etc. as others have said. If I were going to attempt it even for a week, I think a good tarp and plenty of cord would be well worth it's weight... same for a box of MRE's, jerky, whatever. Stash 'em in the woods near your camp just in case, maybe. After all, you can live happily buck nekkid if you have shelter and food under control.
 
Vivi,

Small game season in Ohio is approaching. Why not just get a hunting license and do a week-long trip during small game season in an area where you can hunt? A week of living off the land will teach you more about what you can do than just about anything you can read.

As far as .22 rifles go take your pick. Any .22 rifle that is legal to hunt with in your area will most likely do just fine.
As a kid we had several, Browning T-bolt, Marin semi-auto, tube fed Mossberg bolt action, Savage single shot, etc. The T-bolt was a fantastic rifle, the single shot was our trapline gun (that and a Ruger Single Six). All of them took countless animals.

Try what you are planning over several long weekends and then do a full week. Those should be minimum goals for attempting a full month. Mac
 
It sounds like you have a good attitude and are willing to learn from the people who posted above, and from other sources. Otherwise, we all gotta die from something sometime.
 
Tballetta said:
I have to say this is one of the best threads I have encountered on this forum.

The knowledge and the willingness to share it so freely is fun and educational.

The most apparent part that I hope Vivi understands is that you must have the ultimate respect of Mother Nature and never ever underestimate her potential wrath. I can hear here that even the most expierienced understand this and never take it lightly.

Vivi, I'm impressed with your honest self evaluation and attitude towards learning.

As your knowledge builds it would be useful to you to also let your humility and respect build as well. These attributes will ultimatley be your best survival skill.
Click to expand...



I agree tenfold! Possibly the best thread i have been apart of. Boar and others have contributed great findings and information based on their experiences while it was all initiated by an honest earnest fellow (vivi) taking an overnight trip, if you will.... i am book marking this thread for future references... there is an extreme wealth of information on here that anyone can use... some things i am printing off... i am also, as some others might want to take note of, creating a notepad so to speak on windows of survival tips from others, in addition to my books i own... i am creating a notebook with nothing but tips and pictures (including vivi's) for my own personal references.. kinda cool and handy....

Vivi, what you said about being rediculed... Man, on any other forum, well on many others, this kind of discussion would have us all branded fools... but who would be doing the branding? LIBERALS. KNIFE HATERS. GUN CONTROL FREAKS. ETC.... so i dont care what they think anyways, but you bring up a good point.. its great to have an online home where we can all come and discuss things that are ery important to us and life, without being made fun of or called crazys... God bles to all.
 
pict said:
Vivi,

Small game season in Ohio is approaching. Why not just get a hunting license and do a week-long trip during small game season in an area where you can hunt? A week of living off the land will teach you more about what you can do than just about anything you can read.

As far as .22 rifles go take your pick. Any .22 rifle that is legal to hunt with in your area will most likely do just fine.
As a kid we had several, Browning T-bolt, Marin semi-auto, tube fed Mossberg bolt action, Savage single shot, etc. The T-bolt was a fantastic rifle, the single shot was our trapline gun (that and a Ruger Single Six). All of them took countless animals.

Try what you are planning over several long weekends and then do a full week. Those should be minimum goals for attempting a full month. Mac
Click to expand...




pict, sorry but i had to repost... great advice!!!! so many "hardcore hunters" seem to overlook small game season and overlook squirrel season and graus season... these seasons are paramount for perfecting hunting skills that are more of a reality when or if you are stranded in the woods... i say do as pict advises, get a small game stamp, they arent much, and getchaa bolt action single shot .22 remington, they can be found cheap as well, and after a week, rename yourself the Ohio Squirrel Slayer. ;) :D ;)
 
Recon, you're exactly right about this thread. I've copied and pasted a lot of the recommendations here and plan to purchase a gun for the first time in my life. It'll be interesting. It will also be interesting trying out all these ideas, from snares and traps to what clothing I'll wear. Winter is coming to Ohio not before long, so I'll be able to take many trips to local forests and see how the cold changes things.

I do have a small Co2 cartridge BB / Pellet gun. I've thought about taking that out and shooting rabbits and squirrels. I don't think you need any type of license for those, but I could be wrong. Anyone know? Man, the window in my room makes an excellent perch above our backyard....
 
Vivi;

A lot of excellent suggestions in this thread. A couple of things, though - a couple of posts mentioned a wild foods book. You want to learn the plants before you undertake an adventure such as this. Taking one or even two books along to learn about edible wild foods is inadequate. First of all, any untried food is capable of causing anaphylaxis to a person who is hypersensitive. You don't know if you're hypersensitive until you try them. Out in the boonies is no place to find out.

Secondly, learning which plants are safe to eat, from books, requires at the very least, several wild edible books to cross reference. If not, this can happen -

"The blue berries of woodbine are edible". [woodbine is identified as Virginia Creeper - Parthenocissus quinquefolia at the top of the section].
(Guide To Northeastern Wild Edibles, E. Barrie Kavasch, Hancock House, 1994, ISBN# 0-88839-090-4, page 16)

"VIRGINIA CREEPER Parthenocissus quinquefoia ....................... Warning: Berries potentially fatal if eaten in quantity." (Edible Wild Plants, Lee Allan Peterson, Houghton Mifflin, 1977, ISBN# 0-395-31870-X, page 180)

You'd be much better off to learn to hunt, fish, etc., because these things can provide you with the food you need to survive. A entirely plant based diet will not, depending, of course, on the time of year, and what plants you have available.

Another thing I've been meaning to mention is another young person (18, I think) who did, last year?, what you're planning on doing. He wrote an account about it and posted it on Paleo Planet. http://b16.ezboard.com/bpaleoplanet69529 He's a very personable, and knowledgable young man. I suggest you go there and talk to him. I'm sure you would find it interesting. His name is Kyle and goes by the forum name of Potholes Primitive. Tell him Doc says hi.

Good Luck,

Doc
 
Thanks for the link. I'll give it a look.

EDIT: I can't seem to locate the post. I found some posts of his on debris huts and that was all.

Hunting, fishing, trapping etc I have a lot to work on, so I'll have plenty of time to familiarize myself with plants in the meantime. I'm going to buy a lot of books and try to find individuals in the area to talk to concerning it.

While we're on the topic of plants, are there any that would be reasonable to try and grow during a 30-60 day stay?
 
Vivi said:
Thanks for the link. I'll give it a look.

EDIT: I can't seem to locate the post. I found some posts of his on debris huts and that was all. Try doing a search on it and if not, ask somebody there if they can direct you to it.You'll find the people there quite helpful. I thought I had a copy on my hard drive but I can't find it.

Hunting, fishing, trapping etc I have a lot to work on, so I'll have plenty of time to familiarize myself with plants in the meantime. I'm going to buy a lot of books and try to find individuals in the area to talk to concerning it.

While we're on the topic of plants, are there any that would be reasonable to try and grow during a 30-60 day stay?
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There's none that I'm aware of. Besides getting books on wild foods, also get some books on poisonous plants. It's important to know the look alikes.

Doc
 
Vivi said:
I do have a small Co2 cartridge BB / Pellet gun. I've thought about taking that out and shooting rabbits and squirrels. I don't think you need any type of license for those, but I could be wrong. Anyone know? Man, the window in my room makes an excellent perch above our backyard....
Click to expand...

Yes you need a license for rabbits and squirrels and it may not be legal to hunt them with an air rifle.

You live in Ohio, right, if so here is everything you need to know about hunting in Ohio.

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/wildlife/
 
Small game hunting and trapping have their own seasons and restrictions as well in most locals. Some do not allow snares and deadfalls at all, some have open seasons on certain animals year round. Here, I hunt and fish with what is called an LOE, a landowner exemption, so I do not need to buy a license unless I go elsewhere to hunt or fish. I am still required to follow the regulations on seasons and methods dictated by our wildlife agency.

Codger
 
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