LLC Blues

tito

tito

Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
670
Okay, maybe I can keep this from being a simple rant and somebody might take something useful from this experience...

I recently applied for a business license for making knives at my residential home address (LLC), and was approved by the city. However, I received a call today from the zoning dept. The first question he asked was what kind of knives I made. I thought, "I'll play your silly game," and answered, "any kind at all." He realized he'd have to re-phrase, and did so by asking, "how big are they?" I answered that they could be any size. He tried nailing it down a little further by asking me to choose between, "small, medium, or large?" I said, "all of those."

He then said that he was declining my LLC because of zoning issues. I asked what issues? He said that making large knives violated the zoning because my grinder and compressor would make too much noise and people might complain. I tried to explain that the machines make the same noise whether the knife is large or small. I didn't quite get to finish as he began speaking over me.

I asked what size knife would be okay to make in my home, and he said "small pocket knife sized ones." I think I lost him at, "you realize how idiotic that is, right?" Apparently, he didn't. There was a little more leading up to this, but you ain't got all night...

The rest of the story is that I don't need a lawyer just yet (yay), and my wife speaks enough "moron" to get it through his head that I'm not manufacturing in mass quantities. She called him back, and I guess I'm all set. But apparently, as far as the city is concerned, I only work on the weekends, and all my knives have 4-5" blades at the largest. He told my wife he'd write it up that way so it looked better, like he was doing me a big favor:mad:

So I have a question at the end: does it count as lying if the only reason you tell the lie (or in this case, tolerate it) is to convince a subjective, small-minded, gov't bureaucrat that what you are doing is actually within the bounds of the law and acceptable behavior? I think I'm good with it, and I should probably leave well enough alone. I'm convinced that I'm doing absolutely nothing wrong, and that my "business" doesn't adversely affect my neighbors. I'd have to figure out a way to read the zoning laws to say for sure, but would that be worth my valuable time?

Should I have just said, "small pocket knives" at the outset (which isn't a lie, just not the whole truth). I almost did exactly that, but I really just hate to be told what I can/can't do by a punk.
 
First rule of bureaucracy: Bureaucracy is the conversion of energy into solid waste.

Second rule of Bureaucracy: It is easier to obtain forgiveness than permission.

Tell the idiots what they need to hear and don't worry about it. If they ever come to look, a very unlikely event, just explain that you have added to the product line but not to your hours.

Gene
 
hehe,,, well the way this old okie would see it is that you really only gave him the truth he wanted. A "lie" would be saying you were making a smaller knife because there is a law against manufacturing a LARGE knife, which obviously there isnt because he was concerned about the noise making a LARGE knife would cause. The size of the blade, in their little minds, supposedly correlated with the amount of noise. Stinking bureaucratic fools. Glad you got that straightened out. Hey Coty, btw, did you get moved? I live just up the road from Albuquerque in Denver. Did you do any good hunting this year? My bro and I got skunked in our early deer hunt. Oh well, saw one of the nicest sunrises in recent memory. Good luck down there,,,,
JM
 
"If there are no regulations about the activity under consideration, make up a requirement and add it to the report."
 
I make watch boxes and went through the same deal. Mine was complicated by a homeowner association as well. Finally moved to a 6 acre ranch zoned for farming and now no one bothers me.

Would a knife box be cool?
closed2.jpg
 
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im not sure if i want to praise you for the cool box or cuss you for using nice wood that would be killer on a set of knives :)
 
jmwands said:
Hey Coty, btw, did you get moved? I live just up the road from Albuquerque in Denver. Did you do any good hunting this year? My bro and I got skunked in our early deer hunt. Oh well, saw one of the nicest sunrises in recent memory. Good luck down there,,,,
JM
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Yup, we're pretty much settled in and accepting company, but haven't been hunting yet. I haven't even tracked down a good sunrise. We were supposed to head back to TX last wkd and get some bowhunting in, but one of my daughters got sick, and we ended up canxing:thumbdn: I did get set up for a mulie hunt here in NM in about a month with my uncle and cuz. Haven't done it before, so I'm getting excited. Thanks, and you, too.
 
butcher_block said:
im not sure if i want to praise you for the cool box or cuss you for using nice wood that would be killer on a set of knives :)
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Yeah, no kidding. That's pretty sweet. For the record, I'm keeping track of all the cool crap you guys post pics of on here - when Obama gets elected, I want him to redistribute all that stuff to me:D I mean...uhh...nothing, nothing at all......:D
 
I went thru a deal at the post office a few years back where about half a dozen
supervisors had to be called to make sure it was o k to ship a small slipjoint in the U S A.
with the kind of tools to make those could someone make GUNS? I'm sure somewhere down the road there will be either a ban on tools or the brains to use them.
Ken
 
tito said:
Yeah, no kidding. That's pretty sweet. For the record, I'm keeping track of all the cool crap you guys post pics of on here - when Obama gets elected, I want him to redistribute all that stuff to me:D I mean...uhh...nothing, nothing at all......:D
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Obama :barf::jerkit::thumbdn::thumbdn::thumbdn:
 
I'm confused. I'm in PA. Here, setting up an LLC is done through the state. It has nothing to do with the city/township. My LLC address is in Philadelphia; as far as the City of Philadelphia is concerned, my business doesn't even exist (i.e. the state of PA doesn't call the city and tell them that I've registered). My LLC address is a PO Box at a UPS store; which is zoned commercial. However, the zoning was never verified or looked into by the state or city. Of course, the state suggested to me that I apply for a business license with my local government.

Why volunteer the info that you are making knives? Why not simply say you are 'manufacturing' (which you are). I did that; now I don't have to pay sales tax on raw materials. Why volunteer the info that you are actually performing the manufacture of your goods at your location? You could have said that your home is simply your office; the manufacture is done elsewhere (be as vague as possible - you could say you farm it out; whatever you want). I have a day job at a metal shop; we have plenty of customers who have "virtual" manufacturing businesses - i.e. they are just guys in neckties who don't own a single piece of machinery. They farm everything out, never get their hands dirty, and don't have any employees.
 
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Well, you're absolutely right. If I wanted to make things easy on myself that's exactly what I should have done. But that's irritating me. I shouldn't have to. I don't have anything to hide and no wish to break laws. Is it naive to think that I should be able to show govt stewards all my cards and have them actually help me with the process. Maybe I expect too much for my tax dollars.
 
A different word to use rather than "manufacturing" is "fabricating". It baffles the hell outta the beaurocrats.
 
tito said:
Maybe I expect too much for my tax dollars.
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Like expecting someone to actually come over to your house, maybe talk to a neighbor or two, and find out if your operation makes too much noise instead of thinking they can deduce from blade size?
 
tito said:
have them actually help me with the process. Maybe I expect too much for my tax dollars.
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thats the point,,, not how to word it so they dont know whats up, more like help me figure out a way to have a successful business that does't interfere with my neighbors enjoyment of his property. All ass backwards,,, trying to catch you and find out what you are doing wrong,,,


jm
 
Yes, politicians and government workers are for the most part, idiots. I would have told the moron I have silent electrical machines and rubber anvils.
 
kc custom said:
with the kind of tools to make those could someone make GUNS? Ken
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Nope.. That's just crazy talk. A fellow with a shop would never manufacture parts for firearms, even personal firearms. Not me. Nope.... heh heh


I'm not telling ya'll what all I've made. But I will tell you that the few people who have seen or used some of it are usually surprised.


 
I don't know how big your town is...but keep pushing.

No way he can turn you down retor fashion for complaints that have not happened...or might never.

He's got a personal problem with what you are doing.

Talk to his boss...or your councilman ....you vcan get around this guy...
In a town like mine you can get a variance...

Get a petition together from your neighbors...saying they have no problem with you or your work.


Here's where you cannot let no be the right answer.

Shane
 
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