LLC Blues

[Steven Penner]

Yep, he has a personal problem with what you are doing...

Research the rules and make sure that you are within them to the letter, but not too far.

The problem as i see it, if he restricts you to size and or business hours, it sets the table for a PO'ed neighbour to shut you down by proving infractions.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Part of the problem is that he is in a big city. Cities have residential and business zoning. The folks who pay for houses have the right to peaceful existence. That is why manufacturing and most business is not allowed in residential areas. In smaller towns, this is not a problem. In cities you often have to either move the shop to a business zone, or work at home with city approval. The easiest way to legally do this is to get a PO box, have a quiet and enclosed shop, and apply for a work at home business license. You clearly state that you are making knives as a part time business, more like a hobby, and that you are selling them via the internet and at knife shows. State that no customers will come to or do business at your home. All business mail should go through the PO box. This is the usual set-up for most larger cities.

Lying, filing a misleading application, or operating without a business license, is just plain wrong and dumb. If you are an honest knifemaker, who stands by his product, be an honest businessman who obeys the laws and rules. There are many other requirements dealing with fire codes and noise codes that will need to be addressed.

Forming an LLC is one way to organize your business,but it has nothing to do with where you can run it. I don't know of any incorporated town or city that does not require a business license for an LLC ( or any other business) to operate. They are two entirely different things.

The best way to deal with business licensing for small at home businesses is to go in person. Take some photos of your work, and give realistic estimates of how little manufacturing will actually be done. ( I work an hour or two in the evenings and on Saturdays. I make about one knife a week.Etc.) This will put to rest the worry that you will be running a knife factory in a residential zone.

Finally, don't get an attitude with the person on the other end of the phone. He is your friend if you make him one. He is your worst enemy if you make him that,too. Be polite and when there is a question about what you need to do, or can and cannot do, ask him/her what you need to do to make it work. They are usually quite willing to help any small business get started.

Finally, if you hit a wall, ask your local councilman/woman for help and advise. You may have to apply to the city council for a variance.

Good luck and keep a positive attitude.
Stacy

 

[rfrink]

Yep, zoning guys can be a real pain if they want to be. ...Just because they can...and so much of thier work gets a rubber stamp.

I went through the same problems and learned a few things.

First, zoning rules are pretty clear about running a business out of a residence. But they might be willing to look the other way with the understanding that most businesses start from a simple idea in the home and grow from there. Every city would love to be the home of the next Microsoft or Hewlett Packard.

After disputes with a neighbor, I had a suprise visit from a city inspector under a report that I was running a business out of my garage. I warmly greeted the inspector and invited him into the shop to see what I was doing. We really hit it off well and he fully understood and appreciated how a simple "hobby" turned into a full time job. After all, there's nothing wrong or illegal about having a hobby. The lines get grey when it turns into a business and it's hard to determine when that line is crossed. He was impressed and fascinated with my operation. Since I was an honest, friendly and warm hearted guy...he wanted to help me as much as he could. So, rather than shutting me down on the spot, he explained all the loop holes in the system that will allow me to continue operating for the next 3 or 4 years. For example, he would post pone the filing of his report for 180 days...then I would have 180 to respond...at which point I would file for an extension,...then request a hearing...then reschedule....and before you know it...3 years have past with my case still wrapped up in red tape. He also explained that when a "prospective" business is on a path for making the community better, then a friendly judge might extend the system to help nurture the cause.

So, for me, the moral of the story is to be warm, friendly and honest with these zoning guys. Get them enthsiastic about your venture and they can go a long way to help. You need an insider in your back pocket. Otherwise, they can simply make your life miserable just for the fun of it.


Good luck and have fun...before you know it, You'll be traded on Wall Street!

-Rob

 

[cdent]

I wonder if it's safer for a part timer to remain a serious hobbyist, instead of a business. I know Stacy above recommends going the business route, but wouldn't the individual be responsible for many more regs. and expenses. Might get lucky, then again it may affect things like insurance coverage, etc.

 

[tito]

I wonder if it's safer for a part timer to remain a serious hobbyist, instead of a business. I know Stacy above recommends going the business route, but wouldn't the individual be responsible for many more regs. and expenses. Might get lucky, then again it may affect things like insurance coverage, etc.

I had decided that after hanging up the phone. But, my wife explained some of the things Stacy was talking about (like the small size of my operation and pains taken not to become a disturbance) to the zoning guy, and I'm all set now. I should have put myself in his shoes from the beginning - he doesn't know anything about what I'm doing.