Lock Attributes

[stabman]

As some of you will no doubt have noticed, certain companies believe that flat-out ultimate strength is the only meaningful measure of a knife lock.
And I will agree that a certain degree of strength is a great thing.
Reliability is also key, and the lock that seems to be the strongest in the production knife world is also proving to be pretty darn reliable.

I will argue that strength is not the only important consideration, however.
Ease of use is important too...please read on.

When I was making this sword,

I spent over 300 hours hand sanding the bloody thing, since I had no belt sander, and had it hardened when there was still some ways to go (I should have used files more before heat treat...).
This led to my right thumb (I am right handed) swelling by 50% in size for a number of months, and it hurt a lot, almost all the time.

During this time period, I could open my Cold Steel Large Espada with my right hand, but could not depress the Tri-Ad lock; I had to close it using the left hand.
This meant that it was not one-hand open and close...it was one hand open, then switch hands to close.
My Spyderco Tuff was the same way, and so I didn't carry or use those knives very much at all for many months.

I was able to open and close many other knives one-handed during this period, though.
The AXIS lock was easy to use, as were lighter tension lock-backs (like my Mini Manix), as well as many of my liner and frame-lock knives (other than the Tuff, which I already mentioned).

These locks are all strong enough, as I don't buy crap knives.

So, for me during that period of time, and for old folks with arthritis, ease of closure is actually a concern.

So how about it?
What do you think are the main attributes for a good lock?

 

[cistercian]

As some of you will no doubt have noticed, certain companies believe that flat-out ultimate strength is the only meaningful measure of a knife lock.
And I will agree that a certain degree of strength is a great thing.
Reliability is also key, and the lock that seems to be the strongest in the production knife world is also proving to be pretty darn reliable.

I will argue that strength is not the only important consideration, however.
Ease of use is important too...please read on.

When I was making this sword,

I spent over 300 hours hand sanding the bloody thing, since I had no belt sander, and had it hardened when there was still some ways to go (I should have used files more before heat treat...).
This led to my right thumb (I am right handed) swelling by 50% in size for a number of months, and it hurt a lot, almost all the time.

During this time period, I could open my Cold Steel Large Espada with my right hand, but could not depress the Tri-Ad lock; I had to close it using the left hand.
This meant that it was not one-hand open and close...it was one hand open, then switch hands to close.
My Spyderco Tuff was the same way, and so I didn't carry or use those knives very much at all for many months.

I was able to open and close many other knives one-handed during this period, though.
The AXIS lock was easy to use, as were lighter tension lock-backs (like my Mini Manix), as well as many of my liner and frame-lock knives (other than the Tuff, which I already mentioned).

These locks are all strong enough, as I don't buy crap knives.

So, for me during that period of time, and for old folks with arthritis, ease of closure is actually a concern.

So how about it?
What do you think are the main attributes for a good lock?

Ease of use as well as strength.I think the Axis is nearly perfect in all regards.I like the Para 2 comp lock handling qualities very much too.

Ultimately it depends on use.For EDC I think the Axis and Compression locks are nearly perfect.
In the woods a good EDC plus my 1945 Tru Temper machete covers all I need.

For ultra duty it is hard to improve on a fixed blade!

Hard to close very sharp knives don't appeal to me...I want one handed operation and enough strength for EDC type tasks.So ease of use is very important to me.

 

[155440]

Yeah, I really really prefer easy open/close knives, one of my favorite modern knives because of this is the spyderco ukpk which is actually a slip joint. I can easily open it by either pinching or using the spyder hole and one handed closing is a cinch because there is no lock. I really don't understand the ti lock/frame lock appeal for strength when a lock back works just as well and can be easier to close than most liner locks and frame locks that are supposed "one hand closers".

 

[cistercian]

Yeah, I really really prefer easy open/close knives, one of my favorite modern knives because of this is the spyderco ukpk which is actually a slip joint. I can easily open it by either pinching or using the spyder hole and one handed closing is a cinch because there is no lock.

Nice.When I need to cut something I really enjoy using only one hand and doing the task quickly.I don't want to have to use two hands to close it.

 

[stabman]

Yeah, I really really prefer easy open/close knives, one of my favorite modern knives because of this is the spyderco ukpk which is actually a slip joint. I can easily open it by either pinching or using the spyder hole and one handed closing is a cinch because there is no lock. I really don't understand the ti lock/frame lock appeal for strength when a lock back works just as well and can be easier to close than most liner locks and frame locks that are supposed "one hand closers".

The Spyderco Urban (slip-joint) is nice too.

As for frame-locks, when held in a forward grip, your hand holds the lock-bar in place.
My Brother had an old Chinese "mystery steel" frame-lock that had travelled all the way to the non-locking side, had vertical play, and would close from slight spine pressure...except when you were holding it in a forward grip.
When held as you would to actually use it, you could shove on the spine as hard as you wanted, and it did not slip...because hand pressure prevented it.

Plus, there is the beauty inherent to simplicity of design; less parts.

 

[155440]

Nice.When I need to cut something I really enjoy using only one hand and doing the task quickly.I don't want to have to use two hands to close it.

I can close all of my slipjoints with one hand. My problem with frame locks/liner locks is that I just can't close most with one hand, It's always really really awkward and I feel like i'm in danger of cutting my self or it requires too much hand strength so I end up just closing it with two hands.

 

[stabman]

My problem with frame locks/liner locks is that I just can't close most with one hand, It's always really really awkward and I feel like i'm in danger of cutting my self or requires too much hand strength so I end up just closing it with two hands.

Individual preference is allowed, of course.
My dad is like you when it comes to liner and frame-locks.
My brother and I find them to be about the absolute easiest to open and close one-handed, which is good when you're using it in a working situation, and something is in the other hand (my current job doesn't entail that, but some previous ones did).

 

[155440]

Individual preference is allowed, of course.
My dad is like you when it comes to liner and frame-locks.
My brother and I find them to be about the absolute easiest to open and close one-handed, which is good when you're using it in a working situation, and something is in the other hand (my current job doesn't entail that, but some previous ones did).

I rather like pocket fixed blades if I know I'm going to need one handed access.
I don't invest much towards modern folders so I really am not familiar with high end frame locks/liner locks and how responsive they are. Some of the higher end ZT flippers look like their lock bars deactivate really smoothly.

 

[stabman]

Some of the higher end ZT flippers look like their lock bars deactivate really smoothly.

Some sure are; my ZT 0630 is very easy to operate.

Length of lock-bar, thickness at the cut-out, and how much access there is to push the lock-bar are all factors.
How the handle is designed matters too; some stay firmly in the hand for ease of unlocking, whereas others can be slippery and awkward.

 

[StryCoShaw]

The overbuilt lock-strength market is IMO, geared towards people new to the knife world (not that it doesn't appeal to plenty of knowledgeable collectors as well). Because surely we can all remember when we only had cheap chinese liner locks that had massive lock rock, or wobbly gas station knives, etc. And the first thing you want to insure on your next knife purchase is a SOLID lockup right? Anyways, I found the overbuilt lockbacks aren't perfect for me, because I enjoy having a detent that keeps the blade closed securely, and it just feels better opening it opposed to having to overcome that spring tension of a lockback. The longer you collect folders, the more refined and picky you become about every attribute. You can continue buying overbuilt folders for a long time, but eventually it will peak and you might start to become a reductionist, preferring a simpler knife, smaller, lighter, easier to access etc.

Not to mention, even a slim liner lock like a spyderco military has never come close to feeling insecure/ like it was going to close on my hand. The longer you edc a blade, the more you may realize just how insanely overbuilt some knives are, almost to the point where you feel silly disengaging a triad lock after cutting open a letter. But I get it, the .01% chance it might be needed for self defense, or just the fact that some knives are purpose built for 'hard use'.

 

[ebidis]

The Spyderco Urban (slip-joint) is nice too.

As for frame-locks, when held in a forward grip, your hand holds the lock-bar in place.
My Brother had an old Chinese "mystery steel" frame-lock that had travelled all the way to the non-locking side, had vertical play, and would close from slight spine pressure...except when you were holding it in a forward grip.
When held as you would to actually use it, you could shove on the spine as hard as you wanted, and it did not slip...because hand pressure prevented it.

Plus, there is the beauty inherent to simplicity of design; less parts.

I find the same is true in the reverse grip.

Frame and liner locks are my preference (when well executed), and I have never had one fail on me. I also find that liner locks are plenty strong enough to handle anything short of out right abuse or stupidity. I have even used them to stab, and dig holes in sheet rock, and other materials without a problem.

I can close all of my slipjoints with one hand. My problem with frame locks/liner locks is that I just can't close most with one hand, It's always really really awkward and I feel like i'm in danger of cutting my self or it requires too much hand strength so I end up just closing it with two hands.

Individual preference is allowed, of course.
My dad is like you when it comes to liner and frame-locks.
My brother and I find them to be about the absolute easiest to open and close one-handed, which is good when you're using it in a working situation, and something is in the other hand (my current job doesn't entail that, but some previous ones did).

I also find that they are the easiest to operate one handed. Another reason I prefer them, is that (again when well executed) in my personal experience, I have had less issues with lock rock than with any other lock type. My preference, IMHO, YMMV, etc.

 

[RevDevil]

If lock strength were the only thing that mattered, I don't think so many custom makers that produce one offs could charge say $1500-$3K for a knife. For me, the lock enables the knife to stay open while in use under some situations. If this craziness had a really important foundation, I mean seriously important then there would be no company at all making slipjoints, friction folders, or any kind of folders. We'd only have the fixed blade knife market. I seriously don't base my knife buying choices on being able to hold half a ton of dead/swinging weight 3.75" from the pivot of a knife. I'm sure someone out there might, but not me. I do like a solid lock, but I also like a knife that can actually cut stuff without needing to be sharpened every 10 minutes.

 

[155440]

Perhaps in light of this thread: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1299850-RIP-Grayman-Satu
It's a good thing I only carry traditional slip joints/lock backs as so called "gravity" blades are illegal in my state of new jersey.
(That's nothing compared to where I go to school, Philadelphia, where no knives are allowed period.)

 

[bdmicarta]

I look for a lock that is easy to operate one-handed. I don't need a real strong lock but I need a lock that is reliable.

My first one-hand locks were liner locks and I still like them well enough. I've found though that you have to be careful with them to get your thumb out of the way in time and with wide blades such as the Spyderco Tenacious this is especially important. I've also owned inexpensive liner locks that I didn't have confidence in. If you look at the lock while you push on the blade, and it moves side to side, that doesn't inspire much confidence.

I've owned lockbacks but despite what people say about kicks and things I don't consider them to be safe to operate one-handed. The last time I tried operating a lockback knife one-handed there was a lot of blood involved. I got rid of that knife and almost completely refuse to buy more.

I've owned plenty of other lock styles- BBL, compression and axis. I like them all but I don't think about the lock type when I'm considering a knife. I have knives of all of these types (except lockback) in my EDC rotation.

 

[AntCaps]

As long as there isn't any lock rock or play I'm happy. I prefer frame locks because of the simplicity and uniformity in them but if owned and carried most of the lock types available, and never had a lock fail.

 

[nick21]

Ease of use and reliability are both far more important to me than sheer strength.

 

[cistercian]

As long as there isn't any lock rock or play I'm happy. I prefer frame locks because of the simplicity and uniformity in them but if owned and carried most of the lock types available, and never had a lock fail.

I have had numerous liner locks fail...however they were really cheap gas station specials!Even so to this day I won't buy them or framelocks.
In the case of framelocks I find them ugly.

Of course I will readily acknowledge that many wonderful and high quality knives are built with these locks...but I won't buy them.That does not mean that they are not perfectly suited for other's uses!
I am more than delighted with the Axis and Compression locks I have.Both open very fast and are perfect for easy one hand use.

Cheap and horrible quality liners ruined my tastes.

 

[cistercian]

If lock strength were the only thing that mattered, I don't think so many custom makers that produce one offs could charge say $1500-$3K for a knife. For me, the lock enables the knife to stay open while in use under some situations. If this craziness had a really important foundation, I mean seriously important then there would be no company at all making slipjoints, friction folders, or any kind of folders. We'd only have the fixed blade knife market. I seriously don't base my knife buying choices on being able to hold half a ton of dead/swinging weight 3.75" from the pivot of a knife. I'm sure someone out there might, but not me. I do like a solid lock, but I also like a knife that can actually cut stuff without needing to be sharpened every 10 minutes.

Well said!And the total package of fit/finish usability/ergos premium steel when combined can make a dud or a beloved favorite tool.

My current continuous pocket companion is my Benchmade 530.It is so light I have to pat my pocket to know it is there.The 154CM is easy to get shaving sharp and stays there very well.It operates well one handed too.For more demanding cutting the Para 2 sails through coroplast pretty well.
(corrugated plastic) It is an essential barbie doll/fairy house construction material!

Both knives have properties that combined make them very valuable tools for me.It is their balance of qualities that make them stand out.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

I would say the main attributes of a good lock are strength, reliability and ease of use. The three that, for me, do it the best are the Axis, Triad and Compression locks. The Axis lock is very strong and super easy to use but, with its omega springs, I find a slightly less reliable prospect than the other two. The Triad lock is strong and reliable, but finishes last among the three for ease of use. The Compression lock is very reliable and quite easy to use, but sacrifices some strength to the other two. Each one is a compromise, and which compromise I make depends on how I feel that day more than anything else. I dislike frame and liner locks for a variety of reasons. I don't entirely avoid those type of locks, but the rest of the knife has to be pretty incredible for me to take the plunge on those two.

 

[stabman]

Each one is a compromise, and which compromise I make depends on how I feel that day more than anything else.

Sounds about right.