Lock Strength - Spyderco Paramilitary 2 vs Cold Steel Hold Out II

[Thomas Linton]

Good point.

 

[ichor]

Good point.

Yes. That's why I said it.

 

[jstn]

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ichor, it's pretty simple. The comp lock is plenty strong for its intended use. It holds the blade open while cutting, etc. If I want something to beat on or baton with, I use a Cold Steel with a Triad lock and have no worries. But the comp lock is easier and quicker to open/close in everyday use. Just because the compression lock is not as strong as a Triad lock doesn't mean it is weak...

 

[jstn]

Ok, some of you are missing the point completely, when a knife is called " paramilitary" is not intended for cutting oranges, so don't come here to discuss "EDCability" and cutting ergonomics. The knifes compared are not Swiss knives, they are intended for use and abuse. Shame on Cold steel if they were bragging over tri ad lock exploits against buck or Boker classical slip joints , which are not intended to de used as tactical folders. But if you pic a knife that is called "Military" or " Para -military" then customers are being misguided on purpose toward their intended use. My five cents ..

The Para-military was designed for use by military personnel, for tasks like opening MREs, etc. Utility tasks. If you are using a 3 inch folding knife for combat, you won't last too long.

 

[Monofletch]

I'd like to see the same test with a Manix 2 XL. That ball bearing lock is tough.

 

[Danke42]

Ok, some of you are missing the point completely, when a knife is called " paramilitary" is not intended for cutting oranges, so don't come here to discuss "EDCability" and cutting ergonomics. The knifes compared are not Swiss knives, they are intended for use and abuse. Shame on Cold steel if they were bragging over tri ad lock exploits against buck or Boker classical slip joints , which are not intended to de used as tactical folders. But if you pic a knife that is called "Military" or " Para -military" then customers are being misguided on purpose toward their intended use. My five cents ..

Not all customers need as much guidance as others.

 

[Freman Bloodglaive]

[video=youtube;9rvon6CoeHk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rvon6CoeHk[/video]

Here's one they made earlier.

 

[cistercian]

The Para-military was designed for use by military personnel, for tasks like opening MREs, etc. Utility tasks. If you are using a 3 inch folding knife for combat, you won't last too long.

How long were bayonets for the Springfield in WW1...16 inches?

All of my marine friends said the same thing about knives...they used leatherman or gerber multi-tools for everything.In combat they used mortars, artillery, close air support, machine guns and rifles...and grenades.And mines...etc etc.

Not blades.

 

[Fred Sanford]

Blown away. I would have never guessed that the Para 2 would fail like that. Hey, whatever. Thanks for doing these tests AD, and Cold Steel.

 

[Fanglekai]

Cutting is basically down to edge geometry, and how long it holds the edge is down to metal composition and heat treatment.

I have an Eland that is 5¼" of razor sharp cutty goodness. Sure the 4116 doesn't hold the edge for a long time, but it resharpens easily too. Heck, I have a couple of Spanish navaja that take a sharp edge easily on 420 steel. I've never used them for more than cutting paper so I don't know how long they'd hold that edge of course.

Put the old AUS8 4" clip point Voyager up against much more expensive knives with their chunky sharpened pry bar blades and it'd cut rings around them, at least until the edge faded. On the other hand an Opinel #8 would outcut the Voyager and even when the edge faded the sheer thinness of the knife would keep it cutting quite well.

Cold Steel make good cutting knives, just like Spyderco do. They do these lock test videos because, from the start, their shtick has been making strong knives. Do they need to be that strong? The ring lock on my Eland is more than strong enough for my usage, and if we want to talk about using a knife as a weapon, it's likely that more people have been injured or killed with cheap Okapi ring lock knives than with Espada XLs. They don't need to be that strong, but Cold Steel put their money where their mouth is and make them that strong, so they're going to advertise that fact.

To be fair, their slogan is "world's strongest, sharpest knives". Yet they never do any head to head testing to show that theirs are the sharpest. If other companies made those claims I'd expect them to do something to back them up. Like I mentioned earlier, if CS really does use thin grinds and makes their knives sharp I cannot understand why they don't test their knives head to head and show that they outperform competitors' knives. That would give them some really huge bragging rights. But I guess CS wants to focus on locks all day long. Cool I guess. I don't really pay much attention to that when purchasing knives. My slipjoints would probably fail at 10 lbs and get rejected.

 

[Monofletch]

I wonder what is done to the knives before they are tested.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

To be fair, their slogan is "world's strongest, sharpest knives". Yet they never do any head to head testing to show that theirs are the sharpest. If other companies made those claims I'd expect them to do something to back them up. Like I mentioned earlier, if CS really does use thin grinds and makes their knives sharp I cannot understand why they don't test their knives head to head and show that they outperform competitors' knives. That would give them some really huge bragging rights. But I guess CS wants to focus on locks all day long. Cool I guess. I don't really pay much attention to that when purchasing knives. My slipjoints would probably fail at 10 lbs and get rejected.

Who would care other than a very, very small group of very, very niche buyers? Yeah, to you and me it would be more impressive than a weight hang or spinewhack test, but watching those tests is a hell of a lot more interesting.

 

[asdf12345]

And the testing isn't nearly as dramatic. "As you can see, our knife cut through this sheet of cardboard using only 2.2lbs of force while the competition took 2.6lbs. A clear victory." More important, but a lot less compelling.

I would wager, not more important to people for whom ultimate lock strength is an actual concern. For most of us, it isn't.

 

[asdf12345]

If we're talking about the blade not folding under load, use one that didn't need a "repair" as part of its construction. :thumbup:

No need to wave. Fast to deploy. Easy to clean up. Lighter for the same blade. Probably cheaper for the same blade.

There are options for folders with a 4" blade that can be carried comfortably, easily and discreetly in a lightweight and dimensionally compact package weighing less than 4 ounces.

No such options exist for 4" bladed fixed blades.

 

[bld522]

My slipjoints would probably fail at 10 lbs . . .

. . . or less. But who cares? If you can't operate a slipjoint without running the risk of injuring yourself, you shouldn't own any slipjoints.

No need to wave. Fast to deploy. Easy to clean up. Lighter for the same blade. Probably cheaper for the same blade.

I didn't have any trouble understanding what you were saying, Thomas. And as far as I'm concerned, the only reasons to prefer folders over fixed-blades are convenience, concealment and compliance.

 

[AntonioAhumada]

Not for actual fighting but as an all purpose military/utility blade. Just think trying to pry a stuck ammo box open with a "para military" or " military" knife. I can bet my right fingers that a Recon 1 or a Code 4 wouldn't fail.

 

[bld522]

Even though the lock might not fail, you could end up damaging the blade. Wrong tool for the job IMO.

 

[AntonioAhumada]

Good thought[/B] bld522, but that's exactly the point, a knife is a poor compromise for everything except for food prep and opening cardboard boxes, even a cutter is superior to it in that sense, but a knife at the shame time is/ should be an universal tool if need be. A knife is what you have when a less than ideal situation arrives

 

[Ankerson]

Good thought[/B] bld522, but that's exactly the point, a knife is a poor compromise for everything except for food prep and opening cardboard boxes, even a cutter is superior to it in that sense, but a knife at the shame time is/ should be an universal tool if need be. A knife is what you have when a less than ideal situation arrives

You think?

This is a measured linear mile of cardboard cut, knife was still sharp enough to cut phone book paper.

Another knife cut a measured linear mile of cardboard and still sliced phone book paper.

Another knife cut a measured linear 3,000 ft of cardboard and cut printer paper easy.

 

[momouppa]

In before the tread is closed.

Spyderco lost by those standards no more no less.

BTW I don't own a single cs knife but when it comes to lock strength it seems like they are good value for money.