Lockbacks, Liner Locks, and Frame Locks....

[bodog]

For now, and just for now mind you, you get the prize for subscribing to the K.I.S.S. principle. Thank you.

You also have to keep in mind that the way they tested those locks was kind of skewed leading to the backlock "winning." When they put the strap directly across the backlock, that means that the more weight that's added then more weight is there holding the lock in place. If they wanted to do it correctly and account for that variable, they would need to create the same corresponding pressure to the liner and frame lock bars to keep them in place. If they'd had 300 pounds compressing a thick frame lock into place while simultaneously seeing if 300 pounds would cause the frame lock to slip out of place, I'm sure the frame lock would fare as well or better than a backlock, especially if you're comparing a titanium or steel liner or frame lock with titanium or steel handles against a backlock with plastic or g10 handles.

 

[singularity35]

You also have to keep in mind that the way they tested those locks was kind of skewed leading to the backlock "winning." When they put the strap directly across the backlock, that means that the more weight that's added then more weight is there holding the lock in place. If they wanted to do it correctly and account for that variable, they would need to create the same corresponding pressure to the liner and frame lock bars to keep them in place. If they'd had 300 pounds compressing a thick frame lock into place while simultaneously seeing if 300 pounds would cause the frame lock to slip out of place, I'm sure the frame lock would fare as well or better than a backlock, especially if you're comparing a titanium or steel liner or frame lock with titanium or steel handles against a backlock with plastic or g10 handles.

I guess it doesn't matter to the OP since he mentioned that using subjective data is fine. Basically what he's saying is lock strength is all in the mind.

He's using subjective data, and that's fine, if it satisfies him. Re-read Post #10.

 

[bodog]

I guess it doesn't matter to the OP since he mentioned that using subjective data is fine. Basically what he's saying is lock strength is all in the mind.

That's cool. The little train thought he could, too, and it worked out well for him...

 

[KrisNZ]

Interesting video, when would anyone really be putting in excess of 250lbs pressure on a lock in normal usage? Wouldn't lock strength be secondary to user technique.

Kris,.

 

[fetzer85]

WE or you...lock strength.

There ya' go, now we're gettin' somewhere Ajack uses confidence as his criteria for lock preference.

Again, read Post #10. It does appear you're the only one suggesting that the OP (me) and/or others are asking this simple question because we're worried about lock failure...I/we am/are not.

It really seems like you're trying to troll your own thread here. This question seems like one a new member might ask, not someone as tenured as yourself.

 

[bodog]

Interesting video, when would anyone really be putting in excess of 250lbs pressure on a lock in normal usage? Wouldn't lock strength be secondary to user technique.

Kris,.

I hate that video because to someone not REALLY watching it gives such a wrong conclusion and doesn't really show anything. The averages are so terribly conceived. It's a fun video but should absolutely not be relied on other than to say don't trust a gerber, a boker, or an esee zancudo, which anyone who pays attention already knows that. All of the other conclusions are bunk. They should know better than to have published that video as proof of anything. There are so many critical failures within the test parameters it's sad. And to think people rely on that, either consciously or not, is frustrating. It really kind of pisses me off. If I had a little bit of extra money I'd try to set up a test that took some of those variables into account. Oh well, people gonna believe what they want.

 

[Alnamvet68]

It really seems like you're trying to troll your own thread here. This question seems like one a new member might ask, not someone as tenured as yourself.

Not at all friend, not at all...just trying to keep it simple. No need to read more into the premise than necessary, and definitely no need to accuse others of trolling; projecting notwithstanding. That said, singularity35 said it best, "Basically what he's saying is lock strength is all in the mind."; as well as bodog, "Oh well, people gonna believe what they want."

 

[Sosa]

I wanna see triad vs power lock.

 

[JR88FAN]

The debate on lock strength is irrelevant. Locking mechanisms are designed to keep a folding knife's blade from closing during normal use, plain and simple. They're not designed for prying, hammering, 'spine whacking', etc.. So, in the end all that really matters is which locking mechanism appeals to you for ease of use. In my case, a linerlock or framelock is what I personally find the most convenient and easy to use, especially when it comes to an EDC folder. I'd employ a fixed blade for field use or any task where I'd be concerned about the possibility of exceeding a folding knife's capabilities.

I don't think it can be explained any better than this...

There are even folding knives out there that have no 'lock' and I haven't seen many posts of severed fingers.....

 

[fetzer85]

Not at all friend, not at all...just trying to keep it simple. No need to read more into the premise than necessary, and definitely no need to accuse others of trolling; projecting notwithstanding. That said, singularity35 said it best, "Basically what he's saying is lock strength is all in the mind."; as well as bodog, "Oh well, people gonna believe what they want."

In that case, I suppose I'll share my thoughts.

I've never had a lock fail on me. (gasp)

I'm serious, never have. I've chipped and snapped a blade but never had a lock fail. My longest own knives with the lock variations you ask about are a RAT 1 (liner) ZT 0550 (frame) and an AK47 (technically TriAd but like a lockback).

So for me personally, the look, feel & materials are much more important. If I'd ever had a lock fail on me I may think differently but right now...that's where I'm at.

 

[KrisNZ]

There are even folding knives out there that have no 'lock' and I haven't seen many posts of severed fingers.....

...very true, take a look in the traditional forum, all the slipjointers over there have all their fingers,...and a lot of those guys and gals use their knives hard,...

Kris,.

 

[BellaBlades]

Too many variables. They all have great attributes. Different grips, torques and abuse can fail em all. Different results for everyone.

 

[RX-79G]

Some more subjective stuff:

Are the locks' strength to be seen as tested until damage occurs, or tested until the knife becomes unsafe. If something happened to bend a frame lock and it didn't close on my hand, I'd consider that a success, even if the knife was no longer serviceable.

Along those same lines, human beings aren't going to slowly increase force until breaking. We are more likely to cause an instantaneous load that has a peak pressure high enough to cause a failure. When that happens, is it going to be 380 lbs, or 1000 lbs? And when you put an instantaneous force that high on a knife, is a lockback going to bend, like a frame lock might, or just break all at once? Which is worse? Which is more likely?


I couldn't tell how accurate the video test was in that the weight the various locks bore was directly proportional to the lever arm distance from the pivot to the rope. Having the rope a small distance further out will change the force drastically. They should have glued the rope in place.


Overall, testing locks like this is kind of like testing Corolla breaks by putting 10,000 pounds on the car and driving down a mountain. It doesn't have much to do with the real protection the lock does or does not afford.

 

[Charlie_K]

Again, read Post #10. It does appear you're the only one suggesting that the OP (me) and/or others are asking this simple question because we're worried about lock failure...I/we am/are not.

the question itself is highly subjective. Especially if the lock material on one design is for all intents and purposes superior to the lock material on another design. Is a liner lock made from 1095 steel with a spring temper, stronger than a lock back made from 8CR13MOV steel? Does the thickness of parts counts towards overall strength or weakness?

 

[michaedma]

I know it's not on the list, but the Triad Lock has never failed me. It's kind of a stronger version of a lockback.

 

[harronek]

I've never spent more than a fleeting moment contemplating the strength of my folders locking system .
But I have spent many moments getting annoyed with not being able to close a Lock Back as quickly and efficiently with one hand as I can do with my Liner and Frame lock knives .
I don't own a single Lock Back anymore and never will .

Ken

 

[egally08]

Tie the rope around the front part of a friction folder and it will hold more weight than any of those, guaranteed.

 

[DesertChris]

I choose none of those 3......

I have the most confidence in my Buck 830 Marksman which has a strap lock

 

[Insipid Moniker]

You also have to keep in mind that the way they tested those locks was kind of skewed leading to the backlock "winning." When they put the strap directly across the backlock, that means that the more weight that's added then more weight is there holding the lock in place. If they wanted to do it correctly and account for that variable, they would need to create the same corresponding pressure to the liner and frame lock bars to keep them in place. If they'd had 300 pounds compressing a thick frame lock into place while simultaneously seeing if 300 pounds would cause the frame lock to slip out of place, I'm sure the frame lock would fare as well or better than a backlock, especially if you're comparing a titanium or steel liner or frame lock with titanium or steel handles against a backlock with plastic or g10 handles.

To be fair, the framelocks and liner locks seemed to suffer catastrophic failure, in that portions of them were destroyed, which more pressure holding them closed would NOT alleviate. In my mind this is a good thing, as a lock should hold until it's broken. The evidence I have seen of liner and framelocks failing the wrong way and without apparent damage, is what makes me so wary of them.

 

[Rich S]

I've never had a liner lock fail; nor a lock back (don't like frame locks). That's with just normal use. For heavy work, I use a fixed blade.
Rich