locking folders: should they be flick-able?

Your welcome. I am a former NYC LEO and in my day no one would ever arrest a guy for simple knife possession. Today, however, it is considered a good arrest.

It's all about money and putting as many people into the system as they can shove. A lot of people would scream, "Conspiracy theory!" at that, but, you know, the proof of it is there and it's nothing more than simple greed. They keep passing more and more laws that have more and more fines and other penalties and then when someone says, "It's about the money," people defend the construction of tyranny by saying, "Nah-ah." or by breaking out the old chestnut, "You need a tinfoil hat."

In your day, cops had better things to do, like trying to stop crime instead of trying to make new criminals out of thin air.

In the Transit system, the officers look for the pocket clips and belt pouches, and take you aside to issue a summons for the knife as per the Admin Code. Once they can flcik it open, of it is a weapon by design ( blade type), or you make a statement that you carry it as a weapon ( including self defense), then you will be arrested for CPW4.

Yep, I have said that for years on these forums, in certain parts of the country, self-defense is, in fact, against the law. They have a system in place and not just in NYC, where you have to lie to law enforcement officers if you want to stay out of handcuffs.

"Why are you carrying that pocketknife?"

"I open boxes with it and, I got mugged last year over on 23rd."

"Oh yeah? So, you think you could defend yourself with that pocketknife, right?"

"Yes sir, only if I had to."

"You're under arrest, you have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney.."

In the urban centers of this country, the concept of "Officer Friendly" is just stupid.

I plan on moving out of NY and maybe to New Hampsire where there is a new law being pushed to make all knives legal, and their gun laws are already great...I hear the fresh water fishing is good too!

Good luck to you, I hope you have an incredibly long and wonderful retirement. :)

Like I said I am a strong second amendment type of guy, but there are many who are not, and all the NYPD officers in the last ten years grew up going through metal detectors at school and hearing all weapons were evil, so you get the idea.....

Yep.
 
I'm not sure what you guys mean by flicking. Are you saying that your thumb comes off the spydie hole (for example) while the blade is in the last 45 degrees of its arc? I get lightning fast opening on my Spydies, but my thumb stays onboard for the whole ride.
 
I'm not sure what you guys mean by flicking. Are you saying that your thumb comes off the spydie hole (for example) while the blade is in the last 45 degrees of its arc?

Or before that.
Or opening by wrist action alone.
 
In California, a flickable knife is cosidered a gravity knife. If you are lucky it just may be confiscated (our jails are kinda full.) or you can go to jail.
Basically, according to CA law, a folding knife has to "tend to close." If it just falls open or if you can just wave it open, it doesn't tend to stay closed and falls under the same kind of rules as an automatic -- legal inside your home, illegal anywhere else.
 
On the NYC, on as why you might like to live in NYC and still like guns/knives. Well, because there are a lot of other things that no other city really has. Of the top 40 cities in the US by size, I have been over half of them, easily. NYC is just very special. Chicago, Philly, Boston, San Fran, and LA are nothing like NYC.

I won't try and convince others that it is great for them, but for some people, and it turns out to be a lot of people, the good outweighs the bad.

On another note, my father worked in Hell's Kitchen, over by MSG, and walked home to Alphabet City every night, 2-3am in the morning. Never once was bothered. I spent a lot of time as a kid on A, B, and C when the city was a hell of a lot rougher than it is now, and never once needed a weapon. You know why? I don't look like a victim. I am only 5'9", but no one, not once, ever bothered me. It is all about how you hold your shoulders, your head, how you walk, and other personal traits. (I should say that on the 5'9" I would be considered a very "thick" individual).
 
I'm sure luck had a lot to do with that as well. Plenty of "thick" people who carried themselves well - dead as disco in graveyards all over Gotham.

I'm not a fan of cities in general. Anything that I would say negative about New York City could very well be said about every other, major, city. Don't care about them. Five things I always wanted to see in NYC and two of them are gone now, I can live without seeing Central Park, The Empire State Building and The Statue of Liberty.

I know, I know, bing-bang-yadda-yadda-wah-wah-wah, tons more to see and experience, -wah-wah-wah, not enough to trump the rules you have to abide by. I have no desire to visit a place that will OK Goldman-Sachs suits to have concealed carry permits because the little people are mad at them for their theft but regular people get hassled for pocketknives. That's the heart of it.

I guess Mick Jagger got it right years ago:

"Don't you know the crime rate is going up, up, up, up, up!
To live in this town you must be tough, tough, tough, tough, tough!
You got rats on the west side,
Bed bugs uptown,
What a mess this town's in tatters I've been shattered!
My brain's been battered, splattered all over Manhattan!

Uh-huh, this town's full of money grabbers,
Go ahead, bite the Big Apple, don't mind the maggots, huh!


Even a broken clock is right twice a day. :D
 
In California, a flickable knife is cosidered a gravity knife. If you are lucky it just may be cofiscated(our jails are kinda full. ) or you can go to jail.

smflorkey said:
Basically, according to CA law, a folding knife has to "tend to close." If it just falls open or if you can just wave it open, it doesn't tend to stay closed and falls under the same kind of rules as an automatic -- legal inside your home, illegal anywhere else.

It depends on the cop. The actual laws talks about a knife being able to be opened by gravity or "inertia", which most one hand openers can be. I've never had a discussion with a cop about my EDCing a knife, outside of other knife EDCers like some of our members here MORIMOTOM or CL01.
 
Luck has very little to do with it.

My father doing that job for over 35 years, thats like 9000 days....Luck runs out.

You would be disappointed in Central Park anyway. If you don't appreciate cities or NYC, Central Park is no big deal.
 
You are right, it was all luck. I apologize for thinking it may be otherwise.

No, not all luck. But some luck. Luck or chance or whatever you want to call it always plays a part in our lives. What you cited earlier has a lot to do with it, but there is always just good or bad luck as well, whatever you want to call it.

Just like when wealthy people claim they owe it all to hard work. There were dozens of people they left behind that worked every bit as hard as they did, some even harder. Some of the people left behind just didn't meet that right person at the right time, etc., that the other person did, had little to do with that "hard work" often cited. Call it "luck" or "chance" or "karma." Whatever you want to, it's always there.
 
so you don't believe in making your own luck? Fine.

However, my point was you don't need a weapon to be safe in NYC. If you want to take luck into account, it doesn't matter if you carry a weapon, someone can just pick you off.

My point still stands, most people looking to commit crimes, look for easy prey. In a city like NYC, you have tons of easy prey...The elderly, woman in general, clueless men, etc. The best defense against them, and they won't know if you have a knife or a gun, is just to not look like prey.

I will say this again, my father and myself never had a problem in NYC, because of who we are and how we act.

Oh for the record, I would be considered wealthy by most standards. MBA, investment banking background, etc. My father was a blue collar worker. I am Wall St. You are right, luck does play a part sometimes, but most of the times, you make your own. Oh for the record, everyone meets the right people sooner or later, it is just what you do with it, and likable you are. Me, I am not that personable, I made it leverage a different skill set.
 
I got my 1st smack upside the noggin from my Dad, for filing down the lock mechanism on an 11" ivory handled stiletto, when I was 13 years old.

I went to a private school, located in the heart of a Latino neighborhood of a very large city. I badgered the owner of a small shop near the school where they sold cigarettes by singles - not packs, and the little boys laid hundreds of snares in the alleys, made of packing string and caught pigeons that they baited with breadcrumbs!

I haggled with him every week over his beautiful Italian stilettos and became a trusted client. Doubtless, these would be very collectible, 40+ years since that time.

I've made so many gravity knives and am so used to slamming them open, it's a rare knife that I can't slap open by gravity. (usually brand new, tight knives)

They are far more dependable and ten times faster than an auto, but HIGHLY illegal.

Some of my newer Spydercos are like a rock but as they age - whack - out they fly! :D
 
so you don't believe in making your own luck? Fine.

That's clearly not what I said. I hate repeating myself. There are many people who have done well for themselves and they get their ass up on their back if you tell them that some percentage of that success was "luck." Or some unknown thing that we can call "luck" for the purpose of this conversation.

If it is only "hard work" and this magical thing called "luck" doesn't exist, then how do some bums "make it?" Also, some people really do bust their ass and they make it! Good for them! Others they left behind busted their ass, too, they didn't make it. Some of them worked harder and smarter and it just didn't happen for them.

It's easy to say they didn't work hard enough because no one that has "made it" wants to say that luck had anything to do with it but I think most regular folks know the truth and they tend to look on those people as liars or at least a bit into self-delusion.

However, my point was you don't need a weapon to be safe in NYC.

You need to take that line of thought to the NYPD, think of how safe they could be if they just got thick and walked down the street like a badass, who could possibly wolf on them, then, eh?

You don't need a weapon to be safe anywhere! That's a mischaracterization of reality. You need a weapon when you are confronted with someone else that has a weapon or even multiple, unarmed assailants. You need a weapon for certain situations not necessarily specific geographic areas although those "certain situations" tend to occur in specific geographic areas. ;)

If you want to take luck into account, it doesn't matter if you carry a weapon, someone can just pick you off.

Ultimately, that is correct. A baby in a stroller that catches a stray round from two imbeciles battling over drug territory is the epitome of "bad luck." I mean, innocent bystanders get hit, injured and killed at times. And, yeah, some sociopath like David Berkowitz or The Zodiac can pick you at random and kill you.

A weapon and the skill to use it is just an insurance policy. Nothing more and nothing less. Sometimes you're the bug and sometimes you're the windshield but here is the cool thing about that, Rich. YOU GET TO CHOOSE! The crackhead or crazy bastard doesn't get to make all the choices, you can choose to defend yourself and not simply rely on luck. You might die, but at least you get to choose. The right to self-defense. The right to self-determination and all of that business...you know what I mean?

My point still stands, most people looking to commit crimes, look for easy prey. In a city like NYC, you have tons of easy prey...The elderly, woman in general, clueless men, etc. The best defense against them, and they won't know if you have a knife or a gun, is just to not look like prey.

Rich, there was a time when that was almost Gospel. Unfortunately, a lot of criminals will target you if you "look hard" and especially if you don't cower, if you meet their gaze, the fight might just be on.

I do agree with you, I just don't think you realize how much things have changed. Not all criminals are the way you suggest they are.

I will say this again, my father and myself never had a problem in NYC, because of who we are and how we act.

That's a wonderful statistical sampling of two. Thanks!

Oh for the record, I would be considered wealthy by most standards. MBA, investment banking background, etc. My father was a blue collar worker. I am Wall St. You are right, luck does play a part sometimes...

Schizophrenia! :D

...but most of the times, you make your own.

Making your own luck, for the purposes of our discussion, is being prepared. Sometimes that means having a handgun, carrying it properly and knowing how to use it safely and accurately to the utmost of your ability. Sometimes it means knowing how to use a blade or a bludgeon or even your bare hands and shod feet.

Oh for the record, everyone meets the right people sooner or later, it is just what you do with it, and likable you are. Me, I am not that personable, I made it leverage a different skill set.

You a hatchetman? You go in and lay the people off during downsizings? :D

"Coffee's for closers..." :D

Funny stuff.
 
My bud grew up in Brooklyn, in Garfield. There were always problems and he was about 6' 2" by the age of 17, streetwise and had all his buds backing him up. You can act like you are in the Mafia, but that won't play long. Alphabet city was mellow, try 2 - 3am in the Bronx or Harlem.
 
A weapon and the skill to use it is just an insurance policy

Agreed, a very serious insurance policy.

In the past I've lived in NYC, LA, and D.C. I always packed a pistol and a backup knife - always!

I've forsaken my ill-advised methods of many years ago, but the handgun saved my skin on 3 seperate occasions and I never had to pull the trigger. Truth! :thumbup:
 
Man...am I glad I live in Vermont!

And all I want to add is, Ernest Emerson has gone on record as promoting the flicking of his creations with all the gusto you can muster.

I think I'll do just that with one of mine and go to bed.

'nite.

CP
 
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