Longest razor edge holding steel on production knife?

DeadboxHero

DeadboxHero

Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
5,357
Hey guys,

There is a lot of advances steels out there that hold edges for a long long time but the razor( hair shaving) sharpness seems to go away just as quickly as it does on average(aus8) to above average(s30v) knife steels.

Are there any super steels that hold that razor edge the longest vs just edge holding?

Thanks guys
 
ZDP-189 holds an awesome edge for a long time. It can be difficult to sharpen, sometimes. 14C28N will hold a razor edge longer than S30V, but where S30V will keep a working edge a long time, 14C28N will dull quickly after it looses its razor edge. ZDP-189 is hard to sharpen and 14C28N is easy to sharpen. There are always tradeoffs.
 
Currently ZDP-189 and CTS-XHP (Endura & Manix 2 from Spyderco) hold their armhair shaving edges the longest in my use, and at the moment i'm wondering how Elmax would perform in that aspect (Spyderco PM2)
 
Good info thanks guys, how does zdp 189 stack up to the highest end steels like m4, m390,and CPM 10v?

Do these steels hold a razor edge noticeably longer or do they loose a razor edge quick and just hold a working edge forever?
 
If all you're going to do with the knife is shave hair, then just about any super steel will be fine. If you're actually going to use your knife for work, you may be disappointed with some of the super steels.
There's so much to consider when choosing a knife for a specific task such as the maker, heat treat, blade geometry, thickness of the steel.
I like the super steels for the longevity of the working edge and ease of honing to get it hair shaving if it's not used hard.
 
If you take a look at Ankerson's testing thread in the Maintenance/Tinkering subforum, you'll see which steels hold a very sharp edge the longest. You'll also see that blade geometry (thinner is better) and heat treat play an important role in how long a good edge lasts.

How you sharpen an edge is another key. My sense is that most edges lose their initial sharpness quickly because they are not properly sharpened, either because they're not sharp to begin with or because they have a wire edge or because the final grit used is not optimized for the particular use the knife will get.

S30V often gets a bad rap for not holding a razor's edge, but I've found that S30V is especially sensitive to heat treat. I put a really nice edge on my mini Rukus in S30V, and it holds that edge for a long time for reasonable cutting tasks. Other blades in S30V don't work as well for me.
 
in my personal experience

CPM-M4
M390
S110v

Weekly I cut up boxes for the wife's composting/general removal and those three steels dont even notice

Yesterday:
honeybadgers_zps7zbtkugh.jpg


Those two have cut up a lot of stuff since their last edge touch up. Could still shave my legs with them. M4 is beast
 
CPM10V on my K2 is probably the most impressive steel I've come across when it comes to edge holding. That stuff outright refuses to go dull.
 
I've not tried any of the super-super steels but 20-CV seemed to hold it's extreme sharpness longer than my Elmax, S35-VN or M390.
 
Sunyata said:
in my personal experience

CPM-M4
M390
S110v

Weekly I cut up boxes for the wife's composting/general removal and those three steels dont even notice

Yesterday:
honeybadgers_zps7zbtkugh.jpg


Those two have cut up a lot of stuff since their last edge touch up. Could still shave my legs with them. M4 is beast
Click to expand...

That's impressive. What method did you use to sharpen those? Do you strop? My Spyderco DF2 (in ZDP-189) loses its ability to shave after cutting through just a few boxes. I must be doing something wrong.
 
DocT said:
ZDP-189 holds an awesome edge for a long time. It can be difficult to sharpen, sometimes. 14C28N will hold a razor edge longer than S30V, but where S30V will keep a working edge a long time, 14C28N will dull quickly after it looses its razor edge. ZDP-189 is hard to sharpen and 14C28N is easy to sharpen. There are always tradeoffs.
Click to expand...

Sounds a little confusing.
 
Striders PD1 and Cpm154 have been great for me. Both hold an amazing edge. However the PD1 hold it for a very long time even with prolonged use
 
If the only requirements are it being able to hold a truly razor edge the longest, and it being a production knife, then look at a Rockstead knife first and foremost.

Especially in their ZDP-189 blades, you will get the best edge-retention out of any production knife on the entire market, but you will be paying for what you get. Dig deep into your pocket books, because they will run you at least $900 for the lest expensive knife they make in ZDP-189, and it goes way up from there if you want it to, easily into the range of $2000+ with some of their newer designs.
But again, you get what you pay for. I have owned a lot of knives, and I have yet to find a folding knife that is built as well as a Rockstead, or one that will hold an edge as long. That being said, I don't own one right now for a reason as well...
 
ejames13 said:
That's impressive. What method did you use to sharpen those? Do you strop? My Spyderco DF2 (in ZDP-189) loses its ability to shave after cutting through just a few boxes. I must be doing something wrong.
Click to expand...

What grit do you sharpen to? Are you leaving a wire-edge that is folding over after the first few cuts? Lots of great advice in the Maintenance Sub-forum for getting the most out of your edge.

I have a CalyIII in ZDP-189 that holds its edge noticeably longer than a number of my other knives in "lesser" steels, but my favorite for breaking down boxes is a utility knife by Tim Johnson (timos- here) of Black Stone K&T. That blade is AEB-L @ ~60Rc with edge-geometry to make it shine: now ~0.006" behind the edge with a very thin flat (very slightly hollow) behind that up to the ~1/8" spine. The sturdy spine keeps it stiff and comfortable to control, the thin edge makes for easy penetration. In Jim's testing thread, coarse-section (linked below, but everyone knows it, right?) you can read where ZDP-189 in normal Spyderco geometry performs (~420 cuts); a little ways below is a measure for AEB-L (340 cuts) - that is the exact knife I sent to Jim for testing. Does it hold its edge as well as the Spyderco? No. But the thin geometry cuts with such ease, that reduced effort is enough to keep me picking the timos- over it for such a task, plus the narrow bevel requires less metal-removal to restore the apex as needed.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...based-on-Edge-Retention-cutting-5-8-quot-rope

A video of the timos- and the CalyIII (at 14:20, no need to watch the whole thing):

[video=youtube;rEIX7pMSTHo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEIX7pMSTHo[/video]
 
RevDevil said:
Sounds a little confusing.
Click to expand...

in my experience, he's not wrong. If you polish the edges of blades made in S30V and 14C28N to a full mirror, and then test them, it seems like S30V developes a tooth and looses that smooth, perfectly razor bevel notably faster than 12C28N, but at the same time, the longevity of the edge in general on S30V is much higher because it holds a slightly toothy working edge much longer than 12C18N.

It seems to work that way for several of the "super" steels, like S90V in particular.
 
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