Looking for a consensus of opinion on switching compounds

haff202 said:
Bark River white compound is 12,000 grit, green 6,000 grit, and black 3,000 grit. There is a type O out there. Virtuovice on youtube has strop many knives and his experience (on video) for best results are Bark River BLACK compound stropped first. Then BR WHITE compound stropped. BR GREEN compound is not needed for scary sharp knives. His standards for sharpness are very high.
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That seems quite coarse for stropping. :( I usually use stones to 10,000-12,000 grit, and then go to either a 30,000 grit stone and then styropping for my "bragging rights" knives, and I start with 1 micron diamond paste, followed by .5 and then .25 micron. BTW, .25 micron is approximately 100,000 grit, and .1 micron is near 200,000 grit. :p

The steel in the blade, the useage of the knife, and one's skill at stropping should determine the grits that will be used.:thumbup:
 
Ben Dover said:
Diamond and CBN (cubic boron nitride) compounds may SEEM expensive, but when one considers that a tiny spray bottle, tube or syringe lasts for decades, it really isn't.:p:thumbup:
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Maybe but I'm really comparing it to the green compound that I have, which also seems like it will outlast me.
 
cziv said:
I want some to try - is it available in stores or do I have to get it online?
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It's just metal polish, so it should be available at hardware stores near you. Keep in mind, it won't be fine enough for purists, but I'm a user, and it gets my blades shaving-sharp with no issue. I usually load a thick piece of paper (resume paper) and strop with this on top of a mousepad, light pressure. Good luck!

Frosty
 
db said:
Maybe but I'm really comparing it to the green compound that I have, which also seems like it will outlast me.
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There can be no question that the "color" compounds are quite economical. However, the point that I was attempting to make is simply that one purchases the diamond or CBN compounds so infrequently that their actual cost is virtually negligible. :p

In addition, one receives a product whose performance is greatly superior by any standards.

The once yearly deer hunter with a relatively soft knife, with low abrasion resistance, will be well served by the BRKT "crayon" compounds, whereas the true afficianado, stropping "uber" steels is far better served by the less economical, but superior product.

Compound initial prices are not a factor in my decision making process simply because their purchase is such a rarity. Considering that less than $150 will allow you to have an assortment of these compounds with enough of the diamond and/or CBN to strop all of the blades you maintain for a lifetime, the ~$150 initial investment then becomes virtually insignificant when veiwed from that perspective.
 
Virtuovice was harsh on the Bark River green compound. At one point, calling it crap. That video may have been retracted. His results using one double sided strop with black compound on one side and white compound on the other side simplified everything in maintaining a scary sharp edge. Unless you need to hog away a lot of metal, the strop seems to make the best edge with the lowest cost.
 
All of my strops are single sided. I prefer to eliminate the possibility of cross contamination.

A single sided strop, kept in a plastic bag when not in use, will have little likelihood of becoming contaminated. And after all, the small piece of plexiglass, Oak or Hickory needed to make a strop is neither a significant expenditure, nor a storage problem.
 
You are probably correct about diamonds and hand stropping being more efficient. Truth is for me most of my stropping is done on a belt sander, and even the green stuff works very well on the more wear resistent steels. I'll probably try them some day but I'm just not convinced yet that the cost of them is really worth my time or money to do so. I've tried many different sharpening methods and products and I really have come to the opinion that most products aren't really worth much compared to just learning the basics of sharpening and useing what you have. Murrey Carter can get a better edge than most people just useing a cinder block and cardboard I personally can get a very different edge just useing a single hone by ajusting pressure. Trying all the new stuff is kind of fun though.
 
db said:
You are probably correct about diamonds and hand stropping being more efficient. Truth is for me most of my stropping is done on a belt sander, and even the green stuff works very well on the more wear resistent steels. I'll probably try them some day but I'm just not convinced yet that the cost of them is really worth my time or money to do so. I've tried many different sharpening methods and products and I really have come to the opinion that most products aren't really worth much compared to just learning the basics of sharpening and useing what you have. Murrey Carter can get a better edge than most people just useing a cinder block and cardboard I personally can get a very different edge just useing a single hone by ajusting pressure. Trying all the new stuff is kind of fun though.
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This is basically what I've been finding too. The more refined the edge is made on the hone(s), the less aggressiveness they'll need on the strops, and aggressive compounds become less essential. More of a preference issue, than a necessity. I do see advantages in how different compounds can be used to tailor one's use of pressure to the job. Light touch is always needed with diamond on softer steels, but some of the smaller & less aggressive compounds, like green and very fine AlOx (example: Simichrome polishing paste) can be used with a bit more pressure, assuming good angle control and appropriate backing (firm or soft).
 
db said:
You are probably correct about diamonds and hand stropping being more efficient. Truth is for me most of my stropping is done on a belt sander, and even the green stuff works very well on the more wear resistent steels. I'll probably try them some day but I'm just not convinced yet that the cost of them is really worth my time or money to do so. I've tried many different sharpening methods and products and I really have come to the opinion that most products aren't really worth much compared to just learning the basics of sharpening and useing what you have. Murrey Carter can get a better edge than most people just useing a cinder block and cardboard I personally can get a very different edge just useing a single hone by ajusting pressure. Trying all the new stuff is kind of fun though.
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DMT offers an exceptional diamond paste called "Dia-Paste."

Unfortunately, I've not found it in grits finer than one micron. However, it's quite inexpensive, and might be just the right choice for your first diamond experience. I completely agree that even chromium oxide will cut top end steels on a powered device, but you will experience a very rewarding event the first time you use diamond (or CBN) on a leather belt. Trust me on this one!:p
 
Ben Dover said:
DMT offers an exceptional diamond paste called "Dia-Paste."

Unfortunately, I've not found it in grits finer than one micron. However, it's quite inexpensive, and might be just the right choice for your first diamond experience. I completely agree that even chromium oxide will cut top end steels on a powered device, but you will experience a very rewarding event the first time you use diamond (or CBN) on a leather belt. Trust me on this one!:p
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A company named Braemar used to carry submicron diamond compound down to 1/10 micron (I have 1/2 a tube left). Checked their website and they only list to the 0-2 micron range, but a phone call may be in order. For a long time I've had 3 micron, 1/4 micron and 1/10 micron compounds sitting in my bench - leftovers from a cancelled project at work. I gave them all a try on my pocket knives back when we first got them in and was underwhelmed - that was over a decade ago. Due to this thread, I broke them out, whipped up a few strops and gave them a try. I am a believer. The 1/10 micron stuff is still too fine to really see any difference from the 1/4micron stuff, but I dosed my coarse strops (120 and 220 SiC respectively) as I've noticed that a finer compound can "ride" a larger one and give very good results when trying to improve/maintain a coarse edge. It turned my rough strops into something else altogether - a clear improvement over the same grit dosed with CrO or AlumOx. The 3 micron and 1/4 micron gave great results on their own strops. Keep in mind, these are just old scraps of leather, not anything nice (like an old belt even). Pretty sure My black and white compounds are going into the storage bin and these diamond ones are going to get the nod for a few. Sadly, there was very little of this stuff left over from the work project and even with frugal use, I can see running out fairly soon. Uggh.
 
Has anybody any experience with the cheap diamond pastes from China? How does it compare to the DMT ones? I know of course that the DMT will be better, but how much better?
 
singularity35 said:
Has anybody any experience with the cheap diamond pastes from China? How does it compare to the DMT ones? I know of course that the DMT will be better, but how much better?
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China has really big diamond mines. Ya never know? Look at the CRK & Strider knock-offs they're making for pennies on the dollar. ;)
 
singularity35 said:
Not very helpful here, are you?
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You asked about diamond compounds from China. I tried to be helpful by adding that China is one of the top few diamond producing countries. I guess that makes you think wtf? I don't know? I figured where there's lots of diamonds then there must be things they're used for besides jewelry. Then extrapolated the quality of their folders to mean they could be capable of making some good sauce.

I'm a deep thinker, try & keep up! :p
 
cziv said:
You asked about diamond compounds from China. I tried to be helpful by adding that China is one of the top few diamond producing countries. I guess that makes you think wtf? I don't know? I figured where there's lots of diamonds then there must be things they're used for besides jewelry. Then extrapolated the quality of their folders to mean they could be capable of making some good sauce.

I'm a deep thinker, try & keep up! :p
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Heh! so you actually think I should get those K/O's? :p

singularity35 said:
Has anybody any experience with the cheap diamond pastes from China? How does it compare to the DMT ones? I know of course that the DMT will be better, but how much better?
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I guess you were thinking too deeply to read this part well. ;)
 
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singularity35 said:
I guess you were thinking too deeply to read this part well. ;)
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Tsk Tsk Tsk, of course I did and of course that's what this discourse has been about and of course you don't understand anything I've taken the time to share. Carry on my friend. May your knives and compounds originate from where you want them to and always serve you well. :thumbup:
 
The diamond used in these pastes and sprays don't come from the ground. They are made in a lab which allows more precise control of the particle size. No diamond producing countries needed.

And I greatly prefer diamonds to strop on. They made the biggest change in my knife sharpness than anything else I have done. I was impressed with compound and power equipment, but a hand strop and diamond sprays took things to the next level.
 
The market for industrial-grade diamonds operates much differently from its gem-grade counterpart. Industrial diamonds are valued mostly for their hardness and heat conductivity, making many of the gemological characteristics of diamond, including clarity and color, mostly irrelevant. This helps explain why 80% of mined diamonds (equal to about 100 million carats or 20 tonnes annually), unsuitable for use as gemstones and known as bort, are destined for industrial use.
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The dominant industrial use of diamond is in cutting, drilling, grinding, and polishing. Most uses of diamonds in these technologies do not require large diamonds; in fact, most diamonds that are gem-quality except for their small size, can find an industrial use. Diamonds are embedded in drill tips or saw blades, or ground into a powder for use in grinding and polishing applications.
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Some are synthetic base and some are organic.
 
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