A1 and A2 are both on my radar. The thing that detracts from these is that I have big hands so I think maybe the handles on them would be a bit smaller than I'd prefer, and of course it means going up in price (a bit at least),and from what I hear they chip a bit too. But definitely interesting.
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Looking for a survival/general wilderness knife for use primarily in Norway
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A1 and A2 are both on my radar. The thing that detracts from these is that I have big hands so I think maybe the handles on them would be a bit smaller than I'd prefer, and of course it means going up in price (a bit at least),and from what I hear they chip a bit too. But definitely interesting.
Of the three you mentioned I would think the esee 6 would be the most versatile for you, the esee 5 is stronger due to its thickness but in most ways the 6 will outperform it, the longer blade will help to span the wood and still leave you with enough blade to strike while batoning and it won't be as clumsy while carving/cooking/butchering. The 5 is heavier than the 6 and its only about 1 1\4 inches longer than the f1 so it wouldn't bring much more versatility to your tool kit
The most important feature you'll find in a survival knife is that its with you when you need it, accidents happen even when you are just stepping away from camp for a minute and with a knife the size of the rtakii its easy to find reasons to leave it behind, a minute turns into a night and your knife, and survival kit if you have it attached to the sheath or belt, will be back at camp when you need it most. If you are willing to carry something big, heavy and awkward like that you'd be better off with a small axe, especially in your environment
Now as far as having to use it for defense the longer the blade the better but I don't think that's a reason to go with the rtakii, the esee 6 can stab and slash well enough and more importantly it is still more likely to be close at hand when you need it, the 5 would be OK but the faster and longer 6 would be better
The most important feature you'll find in a survival knife is that its with you when you need it, accidents happen even when you are just stepping away from camp for a minute and with a knife the size of the rtakii its easy to find reasons to leave it behind, a minute turns into a night and your knife, and survival kit if you have it attached to the sheath or belt, will be back at camp when you need it most. If you are willing to carry something big, heavy and awkward like that you'd be better off with a small axe, especially in your environment
Now as far as having to use it for defense the longer the blade the better but I don't think that's a reason to go with the rtakii, the esee 6 can stab and slash well enough and more importantly it is still more likely to be close at hand when you need it, the 5 would be OK but the faster and longer 6 would be better
Yeah, I've seen it and it seems like the same knife, except it's just a straight upgrade (with a corresponding price hike). Thing is that I've never carried a knife that size, so I'm a bit hesitant to invest too much into it without really having a "proof of concept" that I'm going to find it practical to carry it. My father used to carry a sami knife that size, and a lot of people do, but still.... The whole idea is to have it on me for those "shit happens" situations, so if the big blade ends up being like an axe, ie a useful but clunky thing brought only when there is an anticipated need, then it sorta defeats the purpose.
Between shipping and the extra import duties and value added tax, I think these knives will end up costing me about double the actually MSRP in dollars, so when price is 70 dollars higher that migth realistically be more like a 100-140 dollar increase in my real cost, so if the RTAK2 is almost as good I might prefer that until I've tried that style and know I can/will carry it when I'm out.
Complicate that chopping with extreme cold and that laminated blade may not be the best thing.
Yeah, strictly speaking the "Sami knife" or leuku originated in Finland. The design was refined many years ago with the reindeer herders living in brutal conditions. I consider Scandinavia to be leuku country, which is why I made the comment. Since you were so kind to point out my technical error, let me point out a major one of yours:
I laughed hard at your calling an RTAK a "high-tech Sami knife." An RTAK is not at all a "sami knife" design. An RTAK is basically a big kitchen knife, dissimilar to a leuku in so many ways, not to mention balance, blade and handle profile, and long-use handle comfort. Frankly, an RTAK would be confined to my kitchen and probably never make it out of the house.
This "softer" steel you talk about means easier sharpening in wilderness conditions when a rock may be your only means. Also, it is usually a "tougher" steel. The steel of a good leuku is not a concern---if anything it is tougher for the jobs at hand. Your protective coating does nothing for cutting action, in fact can impede it. It's basically to keep a cheaper knife from rusting. If you feel more secure with a painted blade, fine. It's unecessary with a little care.
You won't find many painted leukus. Not sure how that paint would do after a week of hard work in 40-below.
As for tip and spine strength in the respective designs, it's not even a contest.
You must not be familiar with the advantages of birch, maple, larch etc. for handle material, but in a harsh environment they are among the best. There are REASONS they are preferred for a harsh environment knife. And they are certainly not prone to slipping--leuku handle design is biased toward comfort after long periods of work. And a lanyard is a pretty easy thing to add if you want one--drill a hole or wrap the handle allowing a lanyard or fob.
You also aren't familiar with the advantages of leather over Boltaron, Kydex, and the other dex's. Especially at 30-40 below zero. Leather is simple to treat for waterproofing. Any idea what happens to kydex and the synthetics at extremely low temperatures, especially if you sit on, fall on, or bend them? I can break your kydex...you can't break my leather. You POLISH knives with leather; you SCRATCH knives with the dex's. So many advantages to leather in real-life wilderness situations that it would require another thread. If a knife is shredding your sheath you have other problems.
A good leuku will be a far superior chopper to the RTAK too. And much handier at limbing due to its design.
"An inch longer than leukus usually are..." ??? What does that mean? Leukus are available in as many sizes as any other knife. Scandinavians would never be so unwise as to market an RTAK as a "high-tech Sami knife."
An RTAK is by no means a leuku. Nor should it even be placed in the same category of knife.
I'm not pointing out any kind of technical error, I'm just telling you that I dont live in the part of the country where there are samis. They live further up north, where they do get -40, but down here it doesnt really get colder than -20. If that feels like an insult to you then I don't know what to tell you.
I never said softer steels are universally worse, nor have I said leather is either. What I've said is that people I've talked to who own and use these have complained about how often they need to be sharpened and how the knife cuts into the sheath a lot, occasionally ruining it. Regardless of it's merits when you're fielddressing a raindeer in 40 below zero, that's negative for a lot of people and I think it'll be a negative for me.
The handle is comfortable, I never said it wasn't, but it's a smooth wooden handle with no grooves or anything else and sometimes with some kind of treatment to protect it that makes it smoother and traditionally sami knives don't have hilts or guards of any kind, and you have a potential for an accident. You can find it on some models, but most are without.
""An inch longer than leukus usually are..." ??? What does that mean?" It means that the RTAK is 10 inches and the biggest model for the traditional manufacturer of sami knives in norway is 9 inches.
They might not belong in the same category at -40, but at -10 to +20, why not?
Just thought some clarification was in order. An RTAK is not a Sami knife by any stretch.
It seems that you might be set with an F1 and a hatchet. Are you limited on the amount of weight you are able to carry? The edge on the F1 will probably chip under cold adverse conditions, hitting a frozen bone or whatever. But a small chip in the blade will probably cause little problem in the overall function of the blade. 15N20 is a good inexpensive steel for colder conditions.
Of the ones you listed, the esee 6 would be my choice.
I own a BK2 (very similar to the esee 5), and while its a useful knife, its also way stronger than anything I've ever needed. So much so that I almost never carry it. I consider 3/16in thick to be my upper blade thickness, and even then only on my larger blades. For something as short as the bk2/esee 5 I no longer see the need for 1/4 in thick stock.
If you are considering an esee 6, you should also consider the Becker bk12. Same price point (give or take), same manufacturer (rowen makes both knives), and imo more comfortable handles, and it doesn't have a choil (which I don't personally like).
Personally I find 6 in blades to be about the largest I'd ever want for my "main" knife, but it does also work well in just about all roles.
I don't consider the RTAK a kitchen knife, but also agree it's not a sami knife.
Another knife in the same price/size range is the Becker bk9. It's currently my favorite large knife, because it can chop and baton well, but does surprisingly well at small knife tasks. It might be worth a look.
Good luck finding something that works for you
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I own a BK2 (very similar to the esee 5), and while its a useful knife, its also way stronger than anything I've ever needed. So much so that I almost never carry it. I consider 3/16in thick to be my upper blade thickness, and even then only on my larger blades. For something as short as the bk2/esee 5 I no longer see the need for 1/4 in thick stock.
If you are considering an esee 6, you should also consider the Becker bk12. Same price point (give or take), same manufacturer (rowen makes both knives), and imo more comfortable handles, and it doesn't have a choil (which I don't personally like).
Personally I find 6 in blades to be about the largest I'd ever want for my "main" knife, but it does also work well in just about all roles.
I don't consider the RTAK a kitchen knife, but also agree it's not a sami knife.
Another knife in the same price/size range is the Becker bk9. It's currently my favorite large knife, because it can chop and baton well, but does surprisingly well at small knife tasks. It might be worth a look.
Good luck finding something that works for you
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Cold Steel Bushman. Perfect woodcraft and survival knife.
True the thermorun handled FKs ted to have relatively small hands, sometimes better suited to a gloved hand. Their Northern Lights series have much bigger handles but the price is as well. All stainless blades will chip compared to carbon blades which will roll instead. How often has your F1 "chipped"? Anyway seems your set on a carbon steel blade which is fine ad probably more affordable as well.
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I personally think the F1 is all the knife you need along with a folder in your pocket. Add a good hatchet or folding saw and you have all the bases covered.
DeadboxHero
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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ESEE 6 might be the knife for you. It's.a very popular knife with a great reputation.
I prefer the Fallkniven A1
I love the design.
As far as the delamination with baton haha I don't think so.
I'd be highly suspicious of ones ompetence if someone told be that.
Here's my take on an ESEE 6 to an A1
Everything has a plus and minus
Vg- 10 has better wear resistance and doent roll and deform with proper use. It also finds that happy medium between edge holding and ease of Sharpening.
It will chip if abused, if you hit a rock or use it to dig holes
But it has corrison resistance. When your dirty, weak and tired from an injury or lack of calories it won't rust away from a lack of maintaince.
The geometry on the Fallkniven with its convex grind has superior performance its durable and bites deeper in wood.IMHO.
It is intimidating as hell for people to sharpen though since there is no clear shoulder at the bevel.
ESEE uses a soft carbon steel. This is advantagous in that it can take an incredibly sharp edge with ease it can even take a decent edge even from a river rock. It goes dull much faster though
Under heavy abuse it can chip. It has its limits, but its more likely to roll and deform if you hit a rock or dig wih it.
A sharp, hair shaving edge on carbon steel can also literally evaporate to a working edge in high humidity due to being so reactive.
The ESEE 6 has a better warranty, and can be said to have a more attractive overall package with the Micarta. Finger choil, and better looking sheath fit and finish for a great price.
The ESEE 6 is a great no bs survival knife and its affordable at the higher end
I'm just biased as hell though and I prefer the Fallkniven A1
It costs much more. Some of that is that it's made in Japan for a Swedish company.
But I love the small detail hidden in this knives simplicity such as the hidden tang which keeps bare hands from touching cold metal.
And the highly functional sheath that's unobtrusive and doent get stuck from cloged debris or frost stick.
I prefer the Fallkniven A1
I love the design.
As far as the delamination with baton haha I don't think so.
I'd be highly suspicious of ones ompetence if someone told be that.
Here's my take on an ESEE 6 to an A1
Everything has a plus and minus
Vg- 10 has better wear resistance and doent roll and deform with proper use. It also finds that happy medium between edge holding and ease of Sharpening.
It will chip if abused, if you hit a rock or use it to dig holes
But it has corrison resistance. When your dirty, weak and tired from an injury or lack of calories it won't rust away from a lack of maintaince.
The geometry on the Fallkniven with its convex grind has superior performance its durable and bites deeper in wood.IMHO.
It is intimidating as hell for people to sharpen though since there is no clear shoulder at the bevel.
ESEE uses a soft carbon steel. This is advantagous in that it can take an incredibly sharp edge with ease it can even take a decent edge even from a river rock. It goes dull much faster though
Under heavy abuse it can chip. It has its limits, but its more likely to roll and deform if you hit a rock or dig wih it.
A sharp, hair shaving edge on carbon steel can also literally evaporate to a working edge in high humidity due to being so reactive.
The ESEE 6 has a better warranty, and can be said to have a more attractive overall package with the Micarta. Finger choil, and better looking sheath fit and finish for a great price.
The ESEE 6 is a great no bs survival knife and its affordable at the higher end
I'm just biased as hell though and I prefer the Fallkniven A1
It costs much more. Some of that is that it's made in Japan for a Swedish company.
But I love the small detail hidden in this knives simplicity such as the hidden tang which keeps bare hands from touching cold metal.
And the highly functional sheath that's unobtrusive and doent get stuck from cloged debris or frost stick.
What was that, petrified wood?
The Esee 6 and Fallkniven A1 are both fantastic knives and I don't believe you would be disappointed with either. I considered them both as I loved the designs but could not justify buying either. Although Esee would probably win since it has that unbeatable warranty but I still think the A1 is just a cooler design.
Anyway I was in the same position your in and decided on a three knife system that would serve any purpose I would have:
1. Ontario SP 50 - Large lightweight chopping/batoning knife, 5160 steel known for it's toughness, 17 oz, 9in blade, 15 inch oal, ergonomic handle
2. Ontario Tak-1 - Medium sized Fixed blade for when a smaller blade is needed, 1095 steel, easy to sharpen and holds an edge, 4.5in blade, 10in oal, a backup
3. CS Ultimate Hunter - A folding knife mostly for edc and a backup's backup, made of cts xhp, 5oz, 3.5in blade, 8.5in oal, 5in closed, if all I had was this I would not worry.
The first two were necessary, the folder really wasn't and is overkill but hey any excuse to get a new knife, anyway whatever you choose make sure you carry a backup even if it's just a Mora, your life could depend on it if you lose your main knife. Pocket or Neck knives like the BK11 make great backups but I would still prefer a fixed blade, why I chose the Tak-1. Best of luck to you.
Anyway I was in the same position your in and decided on a three knife system that would serve any purpose I would have:
1. Ontario SP 50 - Large lightweight chopping/batoning knife, 5160 steel known for it's toughness, 17 oz, 9in blade, 15 inch oal, ergonomic handle
2. Ontario Tak-1 - Medium sized Fixed blade for when a smaller blade is needed, 1095 steel, easy to sharpen and holds an edge, 4.5in blade, 10in oal, a backup
3. CS Ultimate Hunter - A folding knife mostly for edc and a backup's backup, made of cts xhp, 5oz, 3.5in blade, 8.5in oal, 5in closed, if all I had was this I would not worry.
The first two were necessary, the folder really wasn't and is overkill but hey any excuse to get a new knife, anyway whatever you choose make sure you carry a backup even if it's just a Mora, your life could depend on it if you lose your main knife. Pocket or Neck knives like the BK11 make great backups but I would still prefer a fixed blade, why I chose the Tak-1. Best of luck to you.
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- Apr 21, 2007
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Here are a few quote's from the latest Fällkniven Newsletter!
In this letter, Peter Hjortberger shares his thoughts on knives and axes in winther temps.
Where he lives, around the Arctic Circle, temps often go as low as -35c to -40c.
One Fällkniven A1 has also seen use in the Antarctic, with temps down to -50c.
I have seen a pic of that A1 after the expedition and I couldn't find anything wrong with it.
Wellused and worn yes, but not damaged.
Regards
Mikael
In this letter, Peter Hjortberger shares his thoughts on knives and axes in winther temps.
Where he lives, around the Arctic Circle, temps often go as low as -35c to -40c.
One Fällkniven A1 has also seen use in the Antarctic, with temps down to -50c.
I have seen a pic of that A1 after the expedition and I couldn't find anything wrong with it.
Wellused and worn yes, but not damaged.
Regards
Mikael
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- Joined
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- 1,686
- Joined
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- Messages
- 1,686
Yep!
I go towards to like this steel better & better, the more I use it.
Regards
Mikael