Looking for cheap fighting/survival knife.

Many top quality khukuri use stick tangs. Many fighters do as well. Sure, maybe they break easier than a full tang. Does that make them bad for some reason? Or that they're not durable? Absolutely not. Just because they may break 'easier' doesn't mean that they break 'easy.'

Stick tangs may actually be preferable in some circumstances--say, if you don't want arctic-chilled steel right up on your hand if you live in a cold climate, and you want to use your knife in the winter time.
 
I have no qualms with a well made stick tang knife, and right now you can get the Heavy Duty Warthog for 36 dollars if you do your shopping.
 
Joshua J. said:
Forget cheap, at just three times you budget you can have the best there is.http://shop.scrapyardknives.com/pro...AD5448.qscstrfrnt03?productId=49&categoryId=5
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Let us know when you are in the market for a new watch, pen, car, pair of dress shoes, sunglasses, cell phone, new suit, boat, or house, I have some suggestions. To make things easier, I can provide a suggestion for each of those that costs almost exactly the same.

$40 will buy a lot of fixed blade.

I think stick tangs were standard because using more steel forging an ergonomic full tang with hardware mounting holes, filing flats for scale mounting, cutting scales, and mounting all that a few hundred times was difficult a thousand years ago.
 
knarfeng said:
I am confused. Your posts seem at odds with one another. You like KaBars and think that they are tough as nails (with this, I obviously agree). But you don't like stick tangs. The KaBar has a stick tang.

My posts aren't really at odds with one another... they are two different posts in response to two different other posts, just to make sure the Original poster had the full concept of pros and cons regarding the issue. I do like the Ka-Bar (and many other stick tangs) and like I said earlier "I would bet my life on one if that's all I had" on the other hand, I have seen one bend a fair bit just from being thrown, which leads me to believe their may be some truth to those "rumors" of broken ka-bar handles, even though I have never seen one personally. They are tough, and will work well as a heavy duty bush knife (especially for the price) but the point I was trying to make is there are stronger configurations than the stick tang.
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kabars do break. When they break, its usually either at the tip, or right at the start of the stick tang.

Moose (moderator in the Becker forum) has broken a few of them. The last one he broke, broke splitting wood (batoning) for his homes wood burning stove for three years straight.

So they can fail, for sure. But it isn't common, and its generally after some pretty extreme "use". Many people have used them for years without problems. I have one, and like it, its a great knife. That said, it wouldn't be my choice for my "one knife" excursion into the woods, but I feel like as long as I was using my head, it would work just fine. You might be interested to know that the kraton handled version actually has a slightly thicker tang than the leather version, so it should be a bit more sturdy if that helps you any.

If I were you, I would be looking most likely for a used Becker BK7, a kraton kabar usmc, or perhaps one of the cheaper cold steel fixed blades.

Good luck
 
rustyrazor said:
knarfeng said:
I am confused. Your posts seem at odds with one another. You like KaBars and think that they are tough as nails (with this, I obviously agree). But you don't like stick tangs. The KaBar has a stick tang.

My posts aren't really at odds with one another... they are two different posts in response to two different other posts, just to make sure the Original poster had the full concept of pros and cons regarding the issue. I do like the Ka-Bar (and many other stick tangs) and like I said earlier "I would bet my life on one if that's all I had" on the other hand, I have seen one bend a fair bit just from being thrown, which leads me to believe their may be some truth to those "rumors" of broken ka-bar handles, even though I have never seen one personally. They are tough, and will work well as a heavy duty bush knife (especially for the price) but the point I was trying to make is there are stronger configurations than the stick tang.
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I've thrown my Ka-bar USMC knife quite a bit. Only thing that got bent at all was the guard, slightly. The blade is still rock solid. Where did the one bend that you saw. That's one heck of a good knife, and since moosez45 isn't here to say it, millions of Marines have been able to bet their lives on their Ka-bars. That's an awful lot of experience there to be discounting.

There may be stronger configurations. It's a different story to say that they're BETTER. Many fighting knives are stick tangs. Makes for a faster and lighter knife, for one, without sacrificing much in the way of durability. I still don't understand why the OP doesn't want a stick tang. They're plenty strong.
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Nothing wrong with Kabars, Beckers, Spec Plus from OKC, and so on.

I've had a Kabar 1217 on my side for many a trip, and for many a baton session. I've seen them bent, I've seen them broken, broken a few myself, but always, repeat always after a long life of service, and some seriouse abuse.

A Million Marines can't be wrong, and the Kabar F/U knife is still alive and kicking. Still pretty popular to.

BKT's most knife for the money, period. Scrape up $65 and get one sent to your house.

Lots of choices, that Buck 119 is a solid performer, and I'll be just downright honest, no one's mentioned the best survival knife out there,

TRAMONTINA MACHETE!!!!!

$9 to buy $10 to ship. Best bang for the buck, and will do everything you will ever need to do in the woods.

Good luck, I'm sure you'll do fine.

Moose
 
stabman said:
I've never been in a knife fight either...I can insult it, throw it on the ground, punch it and throw things at it, but that damn knife just won't fight back!:D
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That's because it's not a "tactical" knife. Those suckers are all about fighting.
 
rachet197 said:
I really like the Ontario Spec Plus Marine Raider Bowie, it's out of my ideal price range but I think it's is worth it.
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If you like that one, and you already have a 119, you're all set.
I have both, and I gotta say...
The Ontario is really inexpensive; can be had for $65 to your door, if you look around. It will chop the bejesus out of anything, and will hold up GREAT.
Bring your 119 also, if you need something light-weight and fast.
The combination of the two will carry very easily, even on the same hip, since the Ontario has a dangler sheath with a leg tie-down. Just move the 119 back a little farther to around 4:00 position.

I think, especially since you already have the 119, you should get the Ontario SP10 and be done with the whole deal. All set. That combo will be MORE than sufficient, you'll have reliable tools that will tackle anything, you can carry them both at once comfortably, and you won't break the bank.
 
Buck 119... yikes. I cringe a little when I see it recommended for field use. The handle is very slick, especially when you add blood or any kind of fats/oils. IMO new buyers need to be warned about this issue. Buck offers a lot of models with better traction.
 
rustyrazor said:
not entirely true my friend. any properly designed knife usually has the weakest point somewhere around the blade guard area, and then the tang most likely follows shortly after as these areas are mostly where the thinner material begins and as such is a major stress riser for the blade. this is especially the case when a blade has been ground squarely to accomodate the guard... if a blade is going to break by lateral pressure, it's probably going to occur at this point, or the tang. if it doesn't stand to reason as to why a stick tang is the weakest possible area of a knife, go online and look up some of the destruction videos. should clear a couple questions up for most.
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I actually have researched this quite a bit and frequented many a website dedicated to destruction of knives (including the most prominent tests on the net) as well as researching sword manufacture. I would encourage you to do some research as well to clear up the question. Please, go investigate. The vast majority of all ("well made") broken knives and swords experience failure in the blade - not the ricasso nor anywhere else along the tang, regardless of a square or radius-ed juncture (though i agree that any such angle creates a "stress riser"). This fact stands to reason as the blade is where the thinnest material is present as well as enduring the majority of stress during a cut, a chop, pry, etc. "Likely" and "probably" don't enter into it as the data is there - given lateral pressure, knives and swords usually break long the blade; when chopping and pounding, fractures usually occur along the blade. If the stick tang is the weakest area of the knife, it is rarely demonstrated as the stresses are usually focused on the blade. But it is highly doubtful that the tang is weaker than the blade based on destruction tests and anecdotal evidence. This is even the case with partial push-tang knives like the Glock and the Mora Clipper - either the blade or the handle will fall to pieces before the tang even begin to wear. The conclusion is, if the tang fails during use, the blade would have failed much sooner had the stress been focused there. This is true in both knives and swords designed for use as cutting instruments. It is also true for folders.
It should be noted that knives & swords where the tang is welded to the blade are NOT designed for use as cutting instruments.

That's all. Happy Thanksgiving!
 
K my friends, first off happy thanksgiving to you as well... I'm not sure if this thread belongs in general knife discussion or testing and reviews anymore with all the debate, lol. That being the case, let me start by saying this, for the record I agree on some points given in that a lot of the knives on those "test" videos do break in the blade area, such as the russian AK bayonette, glock 81, CS SRK, RTAC, and both of the Chris Reeves knives, however most of the times this happens is due to the fact that the point that actually breaks is the exact fulcrum of where the blade is being levered (via hammering or someone standing on it). Of course it's going to give in the area where the most pressure is being applied ...common physics, do the same with a bar of steel or broom handle and you can almost tell exactly where it's going to snap before you try, and it's the same material from one end to the next. On the other hand, almost all of these are full tang knives and the thinnest part of the entire part of the knife is the actual blade. On most stick tang models, this is not the case.. if you watch the destruction videos of any stick tang knives such as the M9 bayonet, the kukuri, or any of the 3 Ka-bar models, they all do actually break in the tang area for one reason or another. I don't know what else to say, all of these knives are solid knives, and I still would use a stick tang, but if my life were on the line and I could only take one, it would most certainly be a full tang model.

cheers
 
rustyrazor said:
... the knives on those "test" videos do break in the blade area ... however most of the times this happens is due to the fact that the point that actually breaks is the exact fulcrum of where the blade is being levered ... Of course it's going to give in the area where the most pressure is being applied ...common physics
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Yup, like I said, it stands to reason. I just flipped through nearly all of those videos again (not the only source for knife destruction, but the most popular), and there are 18 stick-tang or push-tang knives out of 38 total. Of the 18, the Mora and Glock are not full tang. Of those 18, the HI khukuri, M9 bayonet, Buck Nighthawk, and S&W knives broke at the tang before in the blade, and the SOG Seal2000 breaks at the ricasso but only after significant blade loss (edge).

rustyrazor said:
... the thinnest part of the entire part of the knife is the actual blade. On most stick tang models, this is not the case..
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It is the case, the blade is nearly always thinner than the tang due to grinding, and keep in mind that most stress endured by a knife is lateral stress on the cutting edge itself, meaning a large chip or fracture in the blade is the most common cause of failure - simple physics, like you said. Think about how thin the tang on a broad sword is compared to the broad blade... but then think about how thin the blade is ground compared to the tang and also what part of the weapon/tool endures the most stress and variety of force vectors.

rustyrazor said:
.. any stick tang knives such as the M9 bayonet, the kukuri, or any of the 3 Ka-bar models, they all do actually break in the tang area for one reason or another.
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Out of 18 models, 4 break in the tang before the blade. For those that break in the tang (or ricasso anyway) at all, it's usually because noss is hammering on the handle with the ricasso in the vise in a deliberate effort to get that tang to snap (not always easy). *shrug* I think that evidence is sufficient to lay the argument to rest, don't you? Anyone else have questions or concerns about stick-tang knives .. or swords, for that matter?

(btw, not trying to be an ass about this, just trying to promote truth in the face of common misconceptions that lack substantive evidence.)

rustyrazor said:
I don't know what else to say, all of these knives are solid knives, and I still would use a stick tang, but if my life were on the line and I could only take one, it would most certainly be a full tang model.
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For me, it's really a toss-up between my Cattaraugus 225Q and my Swamp Rat RMD. I'd probably take the RMD based on versatility of the design (love that choil), but in a colder environment I'd take the push-tang Catt to keep the metal off my hands.

By the way, BOTH are "full tang" - the "full" means that the tang travels the entire length of the handle, it has nothing to do with any other dimension (another common misconception). Think about full-length tapered or hollow (skeletonized) tangs, or any knife where the blade is wider than the tang at any point...

Happy Thanksgiving!
 
after watching waaaaay too many destruction videos, and checking more posts on the topic than I care to repeat, I can't help but agree. Much like the many wasted knives on the videos, we've beaten this one to within an inch of it's worth... and pretty sure we can agree as well, that any "well made" knife is going to be more than capable of taking the kind of abuse anyone sensible is going to throw at it in a fighting/survival situation. to the best of my knowledge, nobody has ever had to do any of that stuff on the video in any scenario possible in order to make a fire or shelter for themselves... again, that's as far as I know (I'm not searching any videos or websites to find out)

Happy "american" thanksgiving... ours is different than yours :p
 
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