Looking for Fairbanks hammer operating manual...

I see now. I got it in my head the threaded shaft would have the nut trying to hold the drive pulley in position.

I don't think a gib key is a better solution than the two set screws bearing on the key and two set screws bearing on the shaft your are going to use.

Our gib key is tapered. If our drive pulley were off and was being put back on, I'd move it to whatever tolerance with the donut I wanted (probably shim the tolerance), whack in the gib key, set the gib key set-screw, set the shaft set-screw. That is a simple procedure and it easily positions the dirve pulley at any position. To me, anything about threads and nuts requires more machining and more fussing with numbers to make things fit when put together. Given the idea isn't to use a nut to lock the drive pulley in a position, I still wouldn't bother with the extra work.

Anyhow, I think you would have to modify your drive pulley key slot to acommodate a gib key. I feel like the set-up you have is going to be fine.
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Our mount would have to have a plate attached that was wide enough to hold both motor and JS. The motor weighs 96lbs. so the platform would need to be pretty stout and likely supported somehow other than on the narrow mount alone (about 5" side to side hole spacing). Seems like putting the motor on the floor pointing the other direction with "V" belts running up to the outboard end of a JS might be a simpler solution... a person would have to get the details on paper to know for sure.

Mike
 
Mike, an answer on your motor mount might be the make one like the bigger hammers. If you look at Dan's, you will see that the mounting platform is constructed so that the arms of it go around the back of the frame and attach in four places on the sides, rather than just bolting to the back of the frame. I would like to do that, but the frame design is more complicated and uneven up higher.

Doesn't your belt or idler pulley obstruct the pass-through hole? I can't see how it wouldn't on any motor-driven hammer.

The complication to using a threaded nut instead of a gib key is that I will need to know which direction the belt is going to turn in order to choose the correct turning thread. I wanted flexibility with that, so I could mount the idler wherever it would best work.
 
I am thinking about a new motor. Any suggestions as to size and rating I should get? The spec on the motor-driven Model B hammer in Barbour Stockwell material was 3 horsepower and 900 rpm at full load. That would have been without a jackshaft pulley.
 
I think Baldor may have 900rpm motors. If they do, and that's not at all certain, it will be expensive because it will have a lot of windings. "The Day" of plentiful rpm-choices has been gone for a long time.

Some say the HP of days gone by and HP of today are vastly different. Me, I don't know anything about that but those who feel it is so tend to run JS so they can step up from small to large, small to large in the pulleys... feeling being there is more poop for the HP that way. Like I said, I haven't a clue.

Merry Christmas, Robert and all...

Mike
 
Bad news today. $1,100.00 for a new main shaft, new bushings for the main shaft, a sleeve over the main shaft where the drive pulley was, various keys and misc., work. This all assumes that the shaft and the crank will come apart. The shaft will be made from 4140 miralloy, and the bushings will be bronze. I was hoping for more like around 1/2 of that, but I really have no choice.

Sid left me a message, and he has the links and side arms rebuilt and 6 new pins ready to send to me. I will get the final tally on that tomorrow but was figuring around $700.

I realized today that the motor mounting table that I had some welders build for $200 early on for a side mount, before I found out that the previous motor mounting setup was such a cobble job, is really useless to me now. There is just no way to modify it for use in a rear-mount setup.

My old motor is squeaking when I turn the shaft. I am taking it to a rebuilder tomorrow, instead of buying a new one, if I can help it. All in all around $2,000, not counting the motor work, and not such a great day.

How do you tell which side of the belt is the slack side, in order to determine where to put the idler pulley? (I think it is supposed to be on the slack side). My motor will be lower on the back, and the motor shaft will be facing away from the hammer driving a jack shaft. The pulley from the jack shaft up to the drive pulley will be towards the hammer or 180 degrees from the motor shaft. I want to put the motor on the right side, if you are standing behind the hammer and facing the hammer, so the jack shaft can be on the left side, so the jack shaft pulley will be away from me on the other side of the back of the hammer when I am operating the hammer from the right side, if you are behind the hammer and facing it. I am thinking that you can reverse some leads and run a motor in either direction as well. Am I correct?
 
Robert,

Should be you can reverse the motor but not all of them will do that. Usually there are directions on a plate on the motor housing or on the back side of the plate covering the electrical connection box. I don't know how to tell if a motor is reversible otherwise.

As we've yapped about before, a Fairbanks "nomally" runs clockwise (view from the back)... so the motor pulley (or JS pulley) turns CW and pulls the belt down on the right side of the loop. The slack-side is the left side of the belt in this view.

Yup... hammers are big money eaters, for sure. I'm coming to understand just how valuable a hammer in good working order is. Doesn't really matter what the cost of one like that is... the alternative (rebuilding one that needs a lot of work) is a LOT more expensive and time consuming.

Mike
 
Thanks for the info Mike. I will ask the rebuilder about reversing this particular motor. The thing has beaten me down just a little. All of this for a hammer that was supposed to be "in good working condition."
 
Our hammer got bought under the same description... "was working when it was shut down"... for $1,000. I'd be embarrassed to tell you what the dollar input on it is to actually make it run. I know I made mistakes getting parts built and having it cost more than I could have gotten it done for, but it didn't look that way until after the fact. In the end, there's a lot to be said for Bear's "Just run it..." =]

The thing about what you are doing is, when it's done, you are going to have a near-new hammer. I don't know you will ever get what you'll have into it back out, if you let it go. Right up to that point, you are going to have a heck of a nice tool.

Mike
 
You will get returns the first time the machine runs. Believe me! The grin on yer face will be indescribeable. Hope someone is there to photograph it.
 
Thanks for the encouragement guys. It helps. I bought the hammer to use, and I'll just need to do what it takes to use it. I will certainly know a bunch about trip hammers and Fairbanks in particular, when I am done. I could certainly evaluate one for purchase now. I hope you guys will know more about yours as well.

Sid is shipping the repaired links and side arms as well as 6 new pins and a new spring. Some parts were welded shut and bored out and some were repaired with bushings. $600.00

I dropped the motor off at a rebuilder yesterday. Will know next week.

I bought a hard-bound used book for $10.00 on Ebay by Lorelei Sims called "The Backyard Blacksmith" and read it last night. (I was up late). It is well-written and has many very good color pictures and descriptions of techniques. It covers from the basics to making some tools like a guilotine. Anyone would get something from the book. I would recommend buying it.
 
The machine shop making the shaft, bushings and sleeve got a surprise today. They had already ordered the shaft material, but when they pressed off the crank/flywheel, they discovered that the shaft is thicker under just that portion than anywhere else on the shaft. The shaft has 3 thicknesses to it. The largest diameter is under the crank; the next largest goes from the back of the crank to the end of the drive pulley; and, the smallest diameter goes from the beginning of the rear yoke to the end. It is going to become one diameter all the way back, which is the largest diameter. They bored the drive pulley to accomplish that.

Another surprise is that the bushings are tapered on the outside. They told me the rear bushing was tapered .010. The smallest portion is toward the front of the hammer. That is a good thing, since you are basically forced to remove it the correct way. You have to press it out toward the back. The front bushing has to be pressed out toward the front.

My motor is ready - new bearings and a capacitor - $120. They are replacing the bearings in the jack shaft, since they were loose and rattling. Supposedly, my motor can be reversed.

Problem going back together will be that the oil and set screw holes in the bushings would be impossible to line up with the existing holes in the yokes as the bushings are being pressed in. It seems I will have to drill them in place. Not sure how that will work, since the set screw hole in the yoke is already threaded.

Mike, I need your help on the slack side issue. You have a motor with the shaft facing the hammer and no jack shaft - correct? Your slack side is on the left as seen from the back of the hammer - correct? Does the belt turn clockwise? If it does, then the shaft of your motor turns clockwise if you are standing behind the motor and counter-clockwise if you are standing in front of the motor with the shaft pointing at you? I really need to get this straight so I can position the idler pulley and decide which way the threads will turn on the end of the main shaft for the nut that is being installed.
 
farmer12888 said:
Mike, I need your help on the slack side issue. You have a motor with the shaft facing the hammer and no jack shaft - correct? Your slack side is on the left as seen from the back of the hammer - correct? Does the belt turn clockwise? If it does, then the shaft of your motor turns clockwise if you are standing behind the motor and counter-clockwise if you are standing in front of the motor with the shaft pointing at you? I really need to get this straight so I can position the idler pulley and decide which way the threads will turn on the end of the main shaft for the nut that is being installed.
Click to expand...

Well, I don't want to act smart, but if there wasn't going to be a nut on the back end that is basically in the "department of redundency department", it wouldn't make a difference...

So, yup, no JS (so far) and the motor pulley faces the hammer from the back mounting. Everything turns CW viewed from behind the motor towards the front of the hammer.

Bruce and I went back 'n ferth on this awhile ago. Everytime one of us said something to the other we got confused. We finally got on the same page. I got it straight and kept it straight by making a drawing... circles for pulleys, lines for belt, curved arrow for rotation. A thing that helps me not over think it is making myself start at the right place... the pulley that moves the belt. That pulley, whether mounted directly on a motor or connected to the motor via JS, PULLS the belt and the belt pulls the hammer drive pulley... the other side of the belt from that is the slack side... where the idler/clutch works.

Wasn't going to mention it but "Blacksmith Chick" (Lorelei Sims) is SUCH a hunk. I love the shoulders on her... =] She used to have a web site with pictures but it disappeared awhile ago... =[

Mike
 
Thanks Mike for the belt info. It would still matter without the nut, since I have to figure out the placement of the arm with the idler on it. If I place the jackshaft pulley out too far to one side, I will not be able to get the idler pulley on that side as well. I want to put the jackshaft pulley to the hammer on the side away from me while I am operating the machine, so the large belt rotating is not right beside me. With a jackshaft, the motor and jackshaft have to be offset from the center line of the machine some, as you have figured out.

You guys have any way to determine if a chunk of metal is brass or bronze? I was doing some research on that last night, and I couldn't find a way to do it. Apparently color is not a determining factor, as I thought it was. They both also weigh about the same.
 
Unless you are building a new idler pulley "Y", it is designed to pivot on the hammer centerline. I'd be looking to put it and the JS on center and let the motor be where it can be. And I think, with some simple spacers, the idler bracket could work from either side.

There are thousands of brasses and bronzes and darn little differentiates them. If you knock around on this site, you will get a feel for the complexity of it... http://www.copper.org What it amounts to is all sorts of tiny little element tweaks for different end uses. One of the things about that site is they have a great help system. You might be able to describe the use and time frame and get a "best guess" answer on what you have. Me, at a wild guess, I'd say it was bronze based on feeling (not knowing) most bronze is stronger/tougher. In the end, if you have to know, ask Copper.org where to get an inexpensive chemical analysis done.

Mike
 
Yeah, the idler "Y" arm, as Mike calls it, can work from either side. It appears to be pretty symmetrical, so it can be flipped over, turned upside down, etc. The idler pulley can be taken off of it and placed on the opposing side as well. That gives a bunch of options of where and how to place it. As a practical matter, if you are hanging it on the back of the frame, the frame is built like an I-beam up above the pass-through hole. If you get too far off the center line, the mounting bolt will come out the thin part of the frame and not penetrate deeply into the middle portion. That would probably be OK, but I would be a little worried about a piece of the frame casting breaking off, if the hole happened to be drilled in a weak spot.

I am really trying to keep the weight of the motor near the center line. My motor is big and heavy. The entire point of what I am doing is creating a mount that keeps the machine balanced. I am hoping that I can basically split the center line with the jackshaft and motor table center. That will offset both of them from the center line some, but hopefully will still allow the placement of the idler pulley on the side away from the operator. I will play around with it until I get something that works.

Bruce, make a contribution here, Buddy. We miss you.
 
I kinda think I have mine setup backwards from what you guys have. Not sure , but I think I have my damper pulley on the down side, wher ethe belt goes into the drive pulley.
 
Bruce, it depends on which way your hammer is rotating. If standing in front of your hammer, the crank/flywheel is rotating counter clockwise, then I think your idler pulley is on the tight side or incorrect side, as I understand it. If your crank/flywheel is rotating clockwise from the front, then I believe your idler pulley is on the slack side or correct side. My understanding is that the tight side is the return side to the motor or line shaft pulley and the slack side is coming from the motor or line shaft pulley. I suppose any operating difference or loss of drive efficiency from the power source would depend on the overall tightness of the belt under power. Mike, is this all correct? Which way is your crank/flywheel rotating from the front, Bruce?
 
Me and Bruce agreed not to talk about rotation and slack sides anymore... =] We are both convinced his motor pulley is pulling the belt, that the idler/clutch is on the other side and we're just going to leave like that no matter which direction anything rotates.

I still like the idea of putting the JS on center and having the motor on the floor or a short stand below it and facing away from the rear of the hammer. Would take care of your balance concern and keep the mods to existing parts from being a necessity.

Some folks say there is no such thing as getting full rpms from the motor into the hammer. I don't have a way to count them so it's a moot point, but it seems like the numbers in the catalog agree and the "max. beats per minute" are a full realization of the motor rpm.

In my instance... 900rpm motor, 5" motor pulley, 12" drive pulley. 5 / 12 = 0.4167, 0.4167 x 12" = 375 bpm and that is what a 50# is listed as. Maybe it's just noting the system shouldn't be designed (other motor pulleys and/or other rpm motors and/or various JS pulley sizes) for more than the listed "max bpm" whether the hammer ever sees it or not... seems a little odd, to me, though.

Mike
 
I been talking to engine guys for a yr or more, engines meaning hit'n'miss types, trying to determine what it would take to run my A. Thought it would be nice to have a Farbanks 2 hp to run it. :-)
 
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