Looking for first gun

id go with a sig 226 in 9mm. or a sig 1911. ii love sigs, i got a sig 226 in 9mm and 40 s&W , a sig in 380( pocket pistol) and a sig 556 (rifle). only one i didnt like was the sig missqito in 22, it was realy picky on ammmo, but id buy another sig 226 in a heart beet
 
ElConquistador said:
Of course Glock isn't perfect. They need to learn that if it's not broke you shouldn't fix it. Their Gen4 "upgrade" has been a disaster, they should have left the recoil spring alone.

Also years ago they had a problem with slide rails breaking (in the "E" serial number range I believe). I assume this is what Mr. Green is talking about.

In Glock's defense they have taken care of the problems.
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There are those who would disagree regarding the 9mm Gen 4s. In addition to the recoil spring assembly (a Glock formal recall), there are the following potential part issues:
Extractor: Design and hardness issues
Ejector: New design and part number
Connector: A new "Dot" connector to get the Gen 4 trigger pull lower to match the Gen 3s

As Todd Green states, manufactures are making changes all the time. BTW, I know him and he is not a Glock basher. In fact, I'd say he is pretty much a Glock advocate. He's currently endurance testing a Glock 17 Gen 4 and his pistol tests are at least 50,000 rounds.

http://pistol-training.com/archives/5782
 
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Charlie Moore said:
Why do you say he is biased? His article strikes me as one of the more unbiased I've read regarding pistol selection.
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...I guess it's pretty obvious to me. How do you say he's unbiased?

He worked for Beretta and SIG, the competition. Glock came along and changed the game, Beretta and SIG lost a big market share and according to Mr. Green cut corners to try and keep up with the changing market. I'm not sure I believe they quit test firing pistols to save money but that's what Mr. Green claims.

It seems that SIG and Beretta are still trying to catch up. SIG came out with the SIG Pro, their polymer pistol, in 1989 over 10 years after Glock came to the US. Beretta came out with the PX4 in 2004. S&W may finally have something going with the M&P but how long did they struggle with the Sigma. What percent of the market do these other guns have? They have tried to out Glock Glock but it's not working.

Glock had a problem with frame rails breaking on a batch of guns (E Prefix s/n), how long ago was that? I'm guessing but I believe about 7 years ago. Glock also had issues with the new recoil spring in the gen4 9mm guns breaking, this was recently. Glock did voluntary recalls for both these things but that's the best that Mr. Green can come up with to trash Glock... ...going back 7 years to a manufacturing problem, really? That's a pretty good record I'd say.
 
ElConquistador said:
...I guess it's pretty obvious to me. How do you say he's unbiased?
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He uses Glock's low cost and effectiveness at market penetration to explain why the handgun market at large needed to reduce their pricing to remain competitive, and that this led to production cost-cutting. That's not being biased.
 
Back on track,
It's good you took that class, and great that you signed up for the NRA (life member myself), and my vote would be anything you can shoot well. Even that 22 you were shooting could bring down an assailant with a few well placed shots.
As far as the CCW/ "target on my back" thing, maybe go to your local police station and ask the highest ranking officer you can why his officers would hassle you, respectfully. After that, maybe go ahead and get your CCW permit and carry, and next time you get patted down, before they start, declare your gun's existance and show them your permit. Remember that a gun in the bedroom will do no good during a fight in the living room.
I am NOT a legal expert, PLEASE talk to your local police about it, and good luck with your gun!
 
Good points, I'll keep it in mind.

I went back to the range today in hopes of shooting the G22 and XDM .40. The guy there told me their XDM .40 was in the shop for repairs, apparently the little circular pin on top of the slide (what is that called/what does it do?) doesn't handle abuse well and screwed up. As a result, the firing pin engaged incorrectly or something. Is this a common issue with the XDMs? Can someone explain it better if they know?

I should probably make a new thread about this.
 
jfindon said:
Good points, I'll keep it in mind.

I went back to the range today in hopes of shooting the G22 and XDM .40. The guy there told me their XDM .40 was in the shop for repairs, apparently the little circular pin on top of the slide (what is that called/what does it do?) doesn't handle abuse well and screwed up. As a result, the firing pin engaged incorrectly or something. Is this a common issue with the XDMs? Can someone explain it better if they know?

I should probably make a new thread about this.
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Here's a lengthy thread where the OP talks about it:

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/genera...pe-myths-xd-good-enough-professional-use.html
 
That'd be the extractor, and does what it's name implies. It extracts the shot casings from the chamber of the gun.
External extractors do not handle abuse well at all, and when they get screwed up, your gun ceases to function. Internal extractors are harder to replace when they wear out, but they are encased in steel, therefore they take the abuse.
 
1911 is not a beginner gun. You need to train extensively, be more concious of maintenence and deal with the quirks of the system (as sweet a shooter as it is, its just not a starter gun).

Impossible to go wrong with a Glock, XD or M&P. Were it me, I would go M&P (pretty good value) or Glock. I've got 5-6K through my Glock (22) with maybe 3-4 malf. in the whole time.
 
I'm not considering anything aside from a Glock and an XDM now, first post is way outdated.


Despite what I'm reading online about the XDM roll pin/extractor issue, everyone I talk to keeps telling me Glock is the way to go. He also brought up having an issue with the gen 4 larger mag release. He said because of the recoil and thumb position, the recoil would sometimes make his thumb graze the mag release and it would drop out. Has anyone else had that problem? I was trying to sell me on the gen 3 basically.
 
I just pick up a new 27 and ran a few boxes through it. I like it just fine with the pinky ext and med back strap I own lots of gen 3 and a few 4 now as I said long ago. Glock has a good marketing scheme and it works well for them. There cheap and reliable and if you can shoot them well they serve there purpose. My glocks are the cheapest guns I own. There's so many manufactures that make great guns these days it's endless. I managed to get ahold of a springer emp in 9mm last week and the fit and finish, trigger etc is very nice. I like my glocks because I can beat the crap out of them or leave them in the car and not worry they will rust. Or if I drop the bike with one in my waist I don't lose much if it eats it. I'm part of gssf and go to the matches when I can. Its fun but a glock is a glock is a glock. If you shoot other guns and go back to glock it's depressing but if you know no different it's fine :). Everyone has there opinion. I think the best carry gun on the market is the pm9 it's around 16 ounces empty and they work at least mine does. But then again so does my kahr p380. And lots of people said they had issues with them. So whatever works I guess. I don't carry a sig p239 but I love the dak trigger. I don't carry an hk but I love the mag release. Most of the bad posts I see on guns are usually by someone I don't think even owns one. I go to the kimber forums and there's tons of post how there kimber sucks and sure there are some that are legit but I own several and only had one loser out of 9 or so I have owned.. My new emp is 23 oz empty and it hardly has any bad reviews. I love my p7 and there's a cult like following for those hks. If your in the glock, xd etc budget just get a glock and don't look back. They work and are reliable. Just don't go shoot anything that's better or you won't be happy. A carry gun is only good if you actually carry it. My wife has a lc9 and it's pretty reliable and I paid 305 for it. But it shoots like I paid 305 for it. Fine for defense and it's reliable but it isn't a sig or a hk or a Springfield trp. Anyway enough with my babbling I'm not sure where I was even going with this lol :)
 
Oh and my mag rel on my gen4 s hard as hell to pop out. I swap mine to the right side of the gun since I'm a lefty but I can't graze it and it fall out. Mine certainly don't drop free even if I did graze it.
 
Thanks for the info guys. Reading around and watching a lot of YouTube videos, it doesn't seem like the Gen 4s are any less reliable anymore (or ever were). I'm fairly certain I'm getting the G23,just need to find a reputable place for ammo. Found a few places selling 165gr Federal at $15/box but the reviews on the sites were terrible.
 
jfindon said:
Thanks for the info guys. Reading around and watching a lot of YouTube videos, it doesn't seem like the Gen 4s are any less reliable anymore (or ever were). I'm fairly certain I'm getting the G23,just need to find a reputable place for ammo. Found a few places selling 165gr Federal at $15/box but the reviews on the sites were terrible.
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They had issues with extraction in the early versions. Glock has since taken care of the issue by all accounts. I forget exactly what type was problematic since I only follow news loosely, but if you do have that faulty part, they will mail you a fixed replacement for free. The ones these days are just as reliable as ever before, assuming you have that issue taken care of or have one of the current versions that come fixed.
 
If you're looking strictly for a semi auto the XD and Glock are both great pistols. HK has a good reputation but I've only known one person that has had one in 20+ years of shooting handguns. I know a ton of people who have XD's and Glocks and they all love them. The 1911 is a good design but I would go with a name brand Springfield, Colt, or Sig. Try out a few revolvers to just to see if you like one also.
 
The cost of an HK is generally higher than that of Glocks and XDs, in some cases twice the price. Unless you find an HK on the used market, the price of admission is close to a grand, sometimes over if you factor in FFL fees. Even used ones maintain great resale value. The thing with HK, and this is coming from the perspective of a shop owner that I asked, is that shops don't make a lot of money selling them because they cost so much for even them. Because they cost so much in order for the shops to get them in the first place, they really can't charge that much more because few people would buy an HK with a large mark up. I'm not sure how it is for other gun makers, but that shop was only making like 20 dollar profits on the HK. I would have gotten mine locally, but the tax made it more expensive than buying from budsgunshop over at gunbroker. Compare that with M&Ps that you can find new if you look hard enough for close to 400 (they used to be 500ish til S&W lowered the price), new Glocks and XDs for around 500. For many people, the lower price is just that much more attractive. All are great guns.
 
When it comes to ammo, for target get whatever you want. Self defense it should be some nice hollowpoints, such as Hornady Critical Defense. Ball will punch straight through the target and continue with enough velocity to be very dangerous if not lethal. Hollowpoints dump their energy into the target and generally stop inside. Therefore, there's no bullet out of the other side, there's no danger to innocent bystanders if you hit target. The hollowpoints also expand and sometimes fragment inside the target, causing more damage.
 
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