Looking for first gun

9mm ammo vs 40.

40 is slightly better for stopping percentages.
9mm usually 2 more rounds per magazine
9mm is a little cheaper
9mm is much easier to find in variety and quantity on most shelves.
9mm has slightly less recoil, faster sight recovery.

9mm and 40 have different case head diameters which means the same slide/breechface is not going to work. Only exception is the 9mm and 41 Action Express, which is rare to find ammo for. Extractor would be in the wrong place going on a single breech face from 9mm to 40S&W.

All that being said, I am not a real advocate for one over the other. Have shot plenty of .45, 10mm, 40S&W and 9mm. I happen to own 9mm's at the moment due to plentiful mags for the guns I own(G17 and CZ75B).
I just about always find ammo on the shelf of whatever store I walk into- now we all have spare ammo at home so I am not exactly running from zombies trying to grab ammo. Just nice to be able to pick it up when I want to.

I have owned several first generation Kimbers and happen to love them dearly but I would not recomend one to a first time handgunner. IF first timer really wanted one, I would just recomend more tranining with a trained shooter to learn the added skills.

Once you have the handgun, check at the local range for "fun" matches your gun qualifies for. Great way to practice and pick up tips from experienced shooter.

Bill
 
lmalterna said:
9mm ammo vs 40.

40 is slightly better for stopping percentages.
9mm usually 2 more rounds per magazine
9mm is a little cheaper
9mm is much easier to find in variety and quantity on most shelves.
9mm has slightly less recoil, faster sight recovery.
Click to expand...

Remember I posted about there being wrong and false information being posted? This is the stuff I was afraid would be promulgated.

There aren't any "stopping percentages", there is no "one shot stop" data. That has been disproved as pure crap using fabricated data since shortly after it came out in the 1980's. Don't get pulled into "my ammo is better than your ammo" arguments. They all perform less than stellar in the real world.

All handgun calibers are inefficient manstoppers, it doesn't matter if it is a .22lr, .32ACP, .380, 38spl, .357 mag, .357Sig, 9mm, 40SW, .45ACP, .44mag, 10mm, whatever. Real numbers show that 80% of people shot with handguns survive.

What this means to a defensive shooter is that you need to consistently fire your ammunition caliber of choice into the COM of your target until the attacker has stopped. That's it.

Me? I'm just a sport shooter with about 27 years behind various pistols. By my calculations, I've put over 200K of .45ACP, over 100K of 9mm, unknown numbers of .22lr and thousands of rounds each of .38spl, .357 magnum, .357 Sig, .40SW. downrange. I've flown to both Coasts and parts in the middle to train with handgun "experts" at all the camps. Aside from handling techniques and movement tactics, everybody tells you to shoot for COM followed by a failure drill. There is no magic about guns or ammunition. Same as knives, your knowledge allows you to get the same results across various platforms.

Get the gun that fits your hand and shoots best for you.
 
CWL said:
Remember I posted about there being wrong and false information being posted? This is the stuff I was afraid would be promulgated.

There aren't any "stopping percentages", there is no "one shot stop" data. That has been disproved as pure crap using fabricated data since shortly after it came out in the 1980's. Don't get pulled into "my ammo is better than your ammo" arguments. They all perform less than stellar in the real world.
Click to expand...

Well such data, more recent than what came out in the 80s, does exist. Just because you don't buy it does not mean it isn't there. Personally, I don't give it much credence either. Yet, here some of it is:

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866
 
Charlie Moore said:
Well such data, more recent than what came out in the 80s, does exist. Just because you don't buy it does not mean it isn't there. Personally, I don't give it much credence either. Yet, here some of it is:

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866
Click to expand...

I can't begin to comment on how wrong that is. All I can say is that it is conceptually based on false/erroneous data first published by M&S.

Load of crap. It goes to show that police agencies are as much in the dark as others expecting the internetz to present truth.

Only correct statement is that it doesn't matter which caliber.
 
shoot the ones you are interested in. get the one that you shoot the most natural with. cost shouldnt really be too much of a factor bc chances are, you will keep the gun for life. so get the right one on the first try and live happily ever armed
 
I'll tell you what CWL- since you are here, apparently the OP needs only one source of information. I will let you have the floor. I too have fired several K's of rounds shoulder to shoulder with cops who put there life on the line. If you stop knee jerking you will see I said "SLIGHT"- I did not and will not quote numbers as there are too many variables to assign % numbers. Best of luck.

Bill
 
Your first handgun ever? Why not get a rimfire. It will be next to useless for self defense, but its cheep to shoot, has almost no recoil and is a great learning platform. If you need a larger caliber ASAP get it along side a rimfire gun, but with the price of ammo these days I just don't think your going to get adequate practice unless you have a lot of money to spend or are deep into bulk reloading.

You can have all the stopping power in the world but if you can't hit a damn thing or jam it up with limp wrists/poor grip your going to be sh$% out of luck at best, get yourself killed at worst. Get a rimfire handgun, put 5k rounds downrange, learn how to shoot with both hands, in bright and low light, in multiple positions, with an elevated heart rate, then worry about the gun and caliber you want. I see people every week at the range with nice shiny 1911's then proceed to miss a man-sized target at 10 yards when they are standing still, aiming at a stationary target, and in no distress.
 
Charlie Moore said:
Here is a thought-provoking article on the .40 vs. 9mm...

http://www.imakenews.com/valhalla/e_article002168437.cfm?x=bk1b43S,bj7QPlVl,w
Click to expand...

I never bought into the hype of the 40. I prefer big heavy bullets at lower pressure. The 40 is a high pressure round, and I could never see any reason to switch, but I mainly carry a 45 acp. The caliber discussions will never end, and they are just as bad, or worse, with rifles...

If you get a 9mm, practice with it a lot, and although they aren't cheap, buy some good defensive rounds to keep in it. Just make sure to put enough of those rounds through it, to know that your pistol will cycle correctly
 
Matthewd said:
I'm surprised nobody mentioned Kahr or Sig - Anybody here carry one?
Click to expand...

I have a Kahr P9 that I'm very happy with- never any problems and is much more accurate than I expected out such a short barrel. To answer another question, when I was shopping for this gun I also shot the .40 version and IMO it was very unpleasant to shoot. Too much smack for such a small package (plus longer to get back on target). I enjoy shooting and am a firm believer in practicing with any gun you might have to use defensively. I could not see myself enjoying practicing with the .40.

I did like shooting the comparable sized Glock, but bought the Kahr because it was more compact and more accurate. Lots of good guns, get the one that fits your hand and that you shoot the best.
 
ec9 said:
Look I'm not saying it's not done.... I'm saying you shouldn't according to the manufacture. If you reload your own brass from your own spent casings and you know what your doing your probably fine. But if you buy reloads from someone and they use cheap powder such as bullseye. you run the chance of bulging and other nasty gas expanding issues. It's not worth a hand to use cheap reloads in a glock.

And there are some other manufactures that are fine with reloads. I had my kimber sent off for warranty work and they were fine with it, STI as well. Give Glock a call and ask them the same question. I'm not bashing glocks I love my glocks. But unless I swap out for a barstow barrel I'm not trusting reloads in it.
Click to expand...

Depends on the reloads. Jacketed bullets are no different than store bought in a Glock. Non jacketed leads can be an issue in a Glock. The problem with non jacketed reloads in a Glock is the same as non jacketed reloads in any firearm with polygonal rifling. They gum up quickly with lead. I've noticed my Glocks will actually start to change POI after about 300 to 500 rounds of non jacketed reloads. At first I thought it was me... just getting fatigued after a long firing session. However I found POI returned after a good cleaning at the range. Now it wasn't a huge change... but you take notice when everything starts leaning to the right consistently. With enough rounds... you would begin to increase chamber pressures due to the gumming up if the bore... However... I have no idea how many this would take. Most KBs with reloads are due to idiots who can't reload. Such an idiot would blow up a Glock, HK, Kimber, Springfield... whatever. So my advise would be not to use reloads in a Glock under two circumstances...

1. You're an idiot who can't reload correctly. (In which case you shouldn't be reloading anyway.)
2. You're lazy and don't clean your weapon regularly. (In which case you really shouldn't own a firearm in the first place if you're not going to maintain it.)

Otherwise it's just the manufacturer covering their own tail. Most firearms Makers say not to use reloads. Reloads voids most gun warranties. Most manufacturers will still service your firearm after having used reloads. Glock has outstanding customer service. They've never turned me away and I use everything I can find to shoot.
 
jfindon said:
Ok, I have my plan. I found out about an outfitter 20 minutes from here, and they're affiliated with the Pocono Pistol Club.

http://poconopistol.com/index.cfm?siteId=441&itemCategory=41661&priorId=0

They require a 15 minute intro to safety and also have classes for first time pistol users. I can rent guns from them or bring my own, but it seems like exactly what I need to do.
Click to expand...

EXCELLENT plan!

Of those guns you've listed (my list would be very similar), I chose the Glock 19 to supplement my Ruger SP-101 revolver. If home defense is your primary goal, might I suggest a good shotgun?
 
jfindon said:
Ok, I have my plan. I found out about an outfitter 20 minutes from here, and they're affiliated with the Pocono Pistol Club.

http://poconopistol.com/index.cfm?siteId=441&itemCategory=41661&priorId=0

They require a 15 minute intro to safety and also have classes for first time pistol users. I can rent guns from them or bring my own, but it seems like exactly what I need to do.
Click to expand...

Perfect... All the reading and asking questions helps, but ultimately you will find your answer, when you get to hold and shoot the ones you are interested in
 
timcsaw said:
EXCELLENT plan!

Of those guns you've listed (my list would be very similar), I chose the Glock 19 to supplement my Ruger SP-101 revolver. If home defense is your primary goal, might I suggest a good shotgun?
Click to expand...

Nah, no shotguns, I want to pick up a hobby and learn to shoot. Home defense is just a slight requirement, I don't live in a bad place that would make me think I need a shotgun.

338375 said:
Perfect... All the reading and asking questions helps, but ultimately you will find your answer, when you get to hold and shoot the ones you are interested in
Click to expand...

Indeed. I'm going to just do the NRA intro course for $150, they have a class on October 15 that hopefully isn't filled yet. From there, I'll go to the range and rent some guns, make my mind up, and buy one.
 
Great plan. I recommended a Glock to ya, and stand by that ,its a great gun. If your are not feeling the plastic "love" ,try a Beretta 92fs . The sidearm of the U.S. military since the early 80's and just about every law enforcement agency in the country until the glock gained so much popularity. And the one I reach for first for bumps in the night . Again, good luck.
 
jfindon...to repeat my earlier post... if you are looking for a fun shooting sport, where you can develop good gun handling skills under controlled dynamic situations, look up a local USPSA club and watch a match (bring eye and ear protection)... if it looks like something you would like to do, check the shooters using "stock" looking pistols.... you can tell the skilled level shooters easily... ask them what they shoot and why.... most are very helpful and can steer you in the right direction....((under my breath... after 25years of shooting a 1911, I now shoot a G34))
 
Well, we're probably beating a dead horse at this point but here it is anyway:

002.jpg


006.jpg


016.jpg


This is my new 17, just picked it up Tuesday. The 100 round federal packs in the bottom picture are under $20 at Wal-Mart. I've owned all the .40 Glocks at one time or another (except the 24) and I've shot a 19 quite a bit but this new 17 is fast becoming my new favorite, it's accurate, shoots soft, just a fun gun. For size comparison the green frame 23 is the same gun as your 19 but in .40.

Les,
I thought long and hard about getting a 34 but I just couldn't justify spending an extra $120 for it. I've heard it has more muzzle flip than the 17 is that true? Seems like it should be less with the longer barrel. What sights to you have on yours? I'm getting some Heinies for mine.
 
Slightly OT. For the life of me I can't understand how Heine Straight 8s can be any quicker on target acquisition than normal 3 dot sights. They call them 8s, but you don't even line up the dots to make an 8. The dots don't touch. You're supposed to offset them. On top of that, you don't even put the front dot on POI. You put it below POI. Am I missing something? I studied 8s long and hard and read everything on their website and some other forums/sites. I think if I get new sites for my HK they will either be some tritium 3 dots or an XS 24/7 Big Dot since that to me would seem the fastest for a defense gun.

Straight 8s should just be called 2 dot sights since they sure as heck ain't 8s based on the literature I've read. They're two floating dots!
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top