looking for hardcore/bader111 grinder

RHINOKNIVES

RHINOKNIVES

Gold Member
Joined
May 6, 2000
Messages
4,870

will be ready to purchase my second grinder this week! i am leaning towards the hardcore and want to know if any of you ladies and gents had any pros/cons or know where ther might be some deals on these units. thats in advance. Laurence wwwrhinoknives.com

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I have a variable speed Hard-Core that I thoroughly enjoy. I have a 10" contact wheel that I rarely use (I don't do much hollow grinding) and the flat platen attachment that I use constantly. The contact wheel however is second to none and with variable speed you can take it all the way to Trizact A6 with confidence. Just amazing (to my feeble mind anyway).

On the Hard-Core (and Burr-King) the belt is driven from the contact wheel, not a drive wheel. A machine in this configuration will tend to have inherently better tracking capabilities than one with a separate drive wheel, contact wheel and idler. (I will probably get some arguments here.)

Nuisances -

the tracking knob could be rougher/bigger, made out of hard rubber or something for adjusting with sweaty hands. This is very, very minor and stretching for anything negative.

One advantage of a "three wheel set up - belt speed doesn't change regardless of the size of the contact wheel. With variable speed it is a mute point. Bader, Bee, J&L and Wilton would fall into the category of three wheel grinders.

A Hard-Core and Bader are competively priced with each other with a price differential of no more than $20.00 between the two. I bought my Hard-Core from Tru-Grit this past January.

I truly have no complaints........

[This message has been edited by C L Wilkins (edited 08-21-2000).]
 
Variable speed is DEFINITELY worth the extra money. I will be converting my Burr-King to vari in the near future. Oh well, at least I've got a 1 1/2 hp motor to make something else for the shop.
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Bob
 
I like the Hard Core. I saw demonstrations by some famous makers this last April at the Eugene show. I was very impressed. It would look good sitting next to my Burr-King someday. Go with the variable speed for sure.
 
thanks guys, i talked with d.holder who has two hardcores. he says that they are the smoothest machines he has ever used and he's made a few knives. yes i do mostly flat and convex myself the machine that i have used for 2 1/2 years is from norman coote 2x72 two wheel with a 8" contact and palen delivered to my door for $400.00 two step pulleys and a 1hp used 1725rpm, and fan belt and i was in biz. i have just got to the point that i need a smoother machine with interchangable wheel to increase my production rate. laurence wwwrhinoknives.com
 
I got up close to a Bader BIII this last weekend, and it is an impressive machine too. Frankly I was surprised by how quiet and smooth it was, and it was fixed speed. Variable should be even smoother.

One thing to think about is how much you might want to change setups. The Bader is amazingly easy to change from a 8" contact wheel to a flat platen to a small wheel. It needs no tools and any change-over can be made in just a couple minutes.

I am impressed with the Hardcore, but I am also respectful of Bader's long and reliable reputation. Since I'm about to buy one of these two, I'm also wrestling with this decision.

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Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
The Tom & Jerry Show
 
Jerry,

If you were impressed by the BIII single speed, you will be VERY impressed with the variable. Ultra quiet and super smooth. You are going to get the 2hp model, right?

I have a BII and I would kill for the BIII variable that my buddy has
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C.O.'s-"It takes balls to work behind the walls "
 
The 2HP is appealing for sure. I have to admit, my concern is my shop wiring. I'm getting very near that point where I am expecting something to smoke. Since I have a Square Wheel that I will continue to use for hogging steel - even with just 1HP it is a very efficient steel remover - I am likely going to stop at 1-1/2HP, and try to avoid paying what electricians charge here in Atlanta for even an easy job.

I am drawn to the Bader BIII for it's smoothness and ease of changing setups. I use the small wheel a lot. I am also planning on doing more flat grinding, but even then I might use the Square Wheel to rough grind.

Whatever I get will be so much better than what I have, it will be a luxury.
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Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
The Tom & Jerry Show
 
I have a Bader BIII, and it is very smooth and nice. About the only complaint is the angle iron flat platen they send with it. This is neither very flat nor even on each end. What I ended up doing is having a friend of mine heat treat a nice piece of D2 and surface grind it flat and drill and tap it for machine screws. All I did was drill a couple of holes in the angle iron platen and screw the thing on. Now, I dont have any excuses except my own incompetence if a blade is not flat ground properly. Jerry, when you do decide to purchase your Bader, get it from the Bader Co. themselves. I did, and saved some money. People used to tell me "Bader doesnt sell to individuals". Not true. Why pay someone else a middleman charge?



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Danbo, soul brother of Rambo
 
Thanks for the buying tip Danbo.

I've used that D2 surface on my present grinder's platen for about 10 years, and have yet to need to resurface it. I might use one of the CPM's on my next grinder, but I noticed that problem on the BIII I was looking at. Since it is adjustable in and out, it's an easy fix. You can also round the top and bottom of the platen to make the belt run smoother.

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Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
The Tom & Jerry Show
 
I have a BII and a BIII. Only mistake I made when I bought the BIII was not getting the variable speed. I went ahead and bought smaller drive pulleys and was able to slow the grinder down, but I really wish I had gone with variable speed on the onset. I bought the BII used and to be honest they both run very smoothly. Haven't tried the Hardcore, but it has a great reputation. I agree, the grinder should be bought right from Bader themselves. They are very knowledgeable and great guys to talk to. Just my opinion.

Marcel
 
Ya'll were talking about Bader selling to the public....A maker that lives nearby went to the Batson Symposium that they hold here in Bama. A Bader rep gave him a big discount, plus upgraded to a 14" wheel at the discounted price! I don't think that they'd like for that to get out though.

Will
 
you guys are in luck! i have a new in the shipping crate bIII variable speed all ready to go!
i bought it at the knifemakers guild show and realized later that i should have gotten just variable speed dc motors for my old bII and my square wheel and that i dont really have room for another big grinder
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duh! for the price of this bIII i could have got the 2 dc motors.
if anyone wants it, it is set up with the platen for flat grinding, and still in the shipping crate from bader. price is $1350 plus shipping.
rhino, bader is real easy to change wheel setups and super reliable. my original bII has been grinding away since 1978 with the original motor
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if interested, email me or i will just swap motors with my old bII.
 
Jerry, as far as rounding off the top and bottom edge of the platen to smooth things out, I did that inadvertantly. After screwing my D2 platen onto the angle iron piece, there were little nubs of the screws sticking out the front of the platen. All I did was put on a worn 60 grit belt backwards and run it for a few seconds. That took care of the protruding screws and slightly rounded the edges as well.

As for the smaller drive pulleys that slow down the machine, I have those too. But, I'm having a devil of a time figuring out how to take the original drive pulley off. I know it involves a hex wrench, and have loosened the hex screw, but the old pulley aint coming off. Am I doing something wrong, or do I need some kind of wheel puller to get this thing off? I am having a heck of a time grinding with accuracy since that belt is spinning at over 5000!

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Danbo, soul brother of Rambo
 
well guys, i ordered it today! i whent over the numbers and i got the bader 111 the harecore is great but since burr king is history if for any reason the guy at hardcore go's toes up i will only be able to find used parts and machines someday. i spoke with paul at bader&sons and he told me it will be about a week before they will have mine bulit, they just sent out several to singapore to a jet engine factory. i like that they are involed in other industrys. i think that this is the reason that they are a little less exspendsive across the board, i ordered a 1 1/2 varaible with the 2x5'wheels for convex and work planten for flat and even saved more cash out lay by not getting a contact wheel, i already have one on my other grinder that i dont use. cant wait till it gets here! thanks for the input

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Laurence Segal www.RHINOKNIVES.com
 
Marcel, thanks for the tip. I'll try it tonight. You may have saved me a couple of finger tips!
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Danbo, soul brother of Rambo
 
Although the Hard-Core is the same basic design as a Burr-King, parts are not interchangeable except for maybe the contact wheels and "maybe" the the idler wheel. Burr-King is far from being out of business.

Accessory change out? This is where the Bader III has the field beaten hands down. It takes a good 5 or 10 minutes to change a Hard-Core from a contact wheel to the flat platen assembly. With the Hard-Core if you are using any other size then an 8 inch contact wheel then you must change out the idler wheel as well.

The Bader is just slide out, slide in. Quick, easy change out.

As mentioned above, I have a Hard-Core grinder, NOT a Bader. This is just from my observations. I am trying to be as objective as I possibly can be. I would still get another Hard-Core if I had to do it over again. They are very, very smooth and I haven't had the first tracking problem regardless of the quality of the belts. It may be my next one as well but who knows what I will actually do when the time comes. There is new equipment made all the time. If the toss up were between a BII and a Hard-Core? No brainer, Hard-Core...

BIII? This machine is vastly improved over the BII but I would really like to hear some objective field reports before I bought one. From what I understand so far, everyone that has one really likes it.

It is amazing to me what the prices of all of these grinding machines are for basically an idler wheel, contact wheel and a motor.

[This message has been edited by C L Wilkins (edited 08-24-2000).]
 
hi C.L. burr king seems to have pulled back from the knifemaker biz because of lawsuits or something because i dont see the supply houses advertise them. any way bill herndon has three baders lined up and some day i may get another one myself. i've got some grinding to do, take care.

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Laurence Segal www.RHINOKNIVES.com
 
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