Looking For "Sharp out of Box" slip joint.

James Y said:
I'm aware that in the past it was common and often expected for a knife to come dull OOB so the owner can put his own edge on.

Jim
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This is just nuts. I don't care how often someone repeats what they read on the internet I ain't swallowin' that Kool-Aid.
Which company, old or new, ever advertised "we use only premium materials in building our knives and send them out
as sharp as a marble so you can put the perfect edge on it".
By that logic they should just sell a blade blank so you can put the perfect grind, swedges, and nicks or long pulls as you
desire on your knife and get it just the way you want it.
Until it cuts it is just a knife looking object.

No disrespect intended to anyone but a new knife ought to be sharp enough to be usable.

Mike
 
medicevans said:
Victorinox, as a company, is an amazing model of efficiency and extreme quality control. Duncan had a giveaway here a couple years ago and I won a book about Victorinox. It was incredibly interesting to see inside their facilities. They are what every knife company should be regarding efficiency.
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:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

I not only agree with this, but have felt for a very longtime that Victorinox should be the gold standard for the industry, as far as QA, fit and finish, and customer service.
 
WELL THEN thats it close the books I guess all we need for quality and sharpness in a knife is one of them fine plastic scaled Victornox or hey how bout one of them fine glued scaled loose jointed rough riders.Come on guys I hope you don't mean you would take these fine specimens over a Case,Buck,GEC, or even an old 1095 Schrade:eek:I think I'll keep some of the finer things in life:)
 
garddogg56 said:
WELL THEN thats it close the books I guess all we need for quality and sharpness in a knife is one of them fine plastic scaled Victornox or hey how bout one of them fine glued scaled loose jointed rough riders.Come on guys I hope you don't mean you would take these fine specimens over a Case,Buck,GEC, or even an old 1095 Schrade:eek:I think I'll keep some of the finer things in life:)
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Not what we were saying at all. I think you missed the point. Victorinox makes thousands of time the number of knives GEC does annually, and makes them the exact same every single time. No, they aren't the same type of knife, but the ability to make a consistent, repeatable quality knife is a really amazing thing. And to make it that repeatable in the quantity that they make is absolutely insane. Given that logic, GEC should be almost perfect. Remember there is a big difference between 99.38% and 99.99966% correct. The first is 6210 defective parts per million. The second, just 3.4.

However, I still say it's a moot point. Who cares? Learn to sharpen. If your knife isn't sharp, sharpen it. Put it in your pocket and go on with life. Life is too short to worry. A custom should be sharp upon receipt, no doubt. Production, I could care less.

But this is a knife forum, and we obsess about those things. It's what makes us knife nuts I guess.
 
I really thought I had something to add here but many members have echoed my sentiments exactly, Obsessed with Edges said it best in his OP.

Sharpest factory knife outta the box consistently had been Victorinox and Canal Street Cutlery was the next sharpest. I do find older, 30s through late 60s knives from Case, Robeson Shuredge, Camillus, Schrade, analys almost all the old time US knives before the 70s came hand honed to razor sharpness. Most I believe because of production methods back then we're able to take more time in the manufacture and finish off traditional patterns.

Like many have said, regardless of the sharpness on any knife I get, the first thing I do is resharpen it to my standard which very few knives I've ever bought meet.
 
The Bear & Son I bought a while back (Stag wharncliffe lockback, absolutely love it) came sharp along some parts of the blade, other sections of the blade did not even have an apex on the edge and the grind widely varied along the blade. While I love the knife, the hours I spent on that blade with a Lanksy left a bad taste in my mouth for them.

The Victorinox Pioneer I picked up on Independence Day was new, but had been rattling around in a case of knives at a flea market for the last ten years or so (has the lanyard/shackle hole instead of the little keyring at the end), blade was pretty sharp out of the box. 20 seconds on the leather wheel of the Tormek and it was popping hair.

The Case Folding Hunter that arrived today was about the same out of the box as the Victorinox, both had a good working sharp blade on them right out of the box.

I also picked up a new Camilius Electricians knife (American made model) that had also been riding around in the flea market case for the last ten years or so, no where near as sharp as the Case or the Victorinox (actually, the grind was horrible on it) and really was not usable without a full resharpening on the Tormek (it's also a much thicker blade).

The Buck I bought my nephew last week had a decent working sharp edge on it out of the box, just below the Victorinox and the Case.

Even among good brands, occasionally a bad grind or dull blade is going to happen. Several companies freehand sharpen on a bench grinder and then just run it across a buffer as the final step. If the sharpener is having a bad day, workload is extra heavy that day or it's right before a 3 day weekend, they very well may miss it. If a blade is especially bad, give the company a call and talk to customer service, I work in manufacturing and want to get that feedback to determine if the excursion is part of a larger problem or an isolated incident.
 
Druk said:
Even among good brands, occasionally a bad grind or dull blade is going to happen. Several companies freehand sharpen on a bench grinder and then just run it across a buffer as the final step. If the sharpener is having a bad day, workload is extra heavy that day or it's right before a 3 day weekend, they very well may miss it.
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My recently arrived GEC#25 clip barlow was probably one of those pre-longweekend ones. The blade is only about 2 inches long yet the last half inch out near the tip was blunt as an axe. It didn't even leave a mark as I drew it across a sheet of paper on the workbench! :mad: Took me a good half hour on the sharpener to get it even close to useable. And I'm not one of those guys who demand hair popping sharpness. I'm not too pleased that I have to spend time finishing the job that the factory was supposed to do. That said, my other GECs have arrived with acceptable edges. I guess it's always a hit or miss affair depending on the mood of the factory sharpener.
 
garddogg56 said:
WELL THEN thats it close the books I guess all we need for quality and sharpness in a knife is one of them fine plastic scaled Victornox or hey how bout one of them fine glued scaled loose jointed rough riders.Come on guys I hope you don't mean you would take these fine specimens over a Case,Buck,GEC, or even an old 1095 Schrade:eek:I think I'll keep some of the finer things in life:)
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Here's a bad flash pic but you can see the pins. The only Rough riders I have seen without pins are the MOP scales. The "loose joints" on this bunch range from a low of 5 on the spey in the micarta stockman to a 7 to 8 on both copperhead blades, the barlows are all solid 7. I Love GEC, love old knives, but fair is fair, rough riders are very decent knives worth at least twice their cost IMO. For the beginning slipjoint buyer they allow the trying of Many different patterns at a fraction of the cost of the collectable brands. Lets call them a threshold knife. :D

Regards

Robin

 
GEC's are easy to sharpen and certainly are great to use (and collect), but they don't usually come that sharp.

I agree Rough Riders come sharp. Victorinox usually ships their knives nice and sharp.
 
It is interesting that the GECs are criticized. The ones that I have were razor sharp. The most recent was purchased on the exchange a 57 Whittler. Like a razor. YMMV.

Edited to add, the GECS I have are an executive whittler, 2 harness jacks, and the whittler.
 
medicevans said:
Not what we were saying at all. I think you missed the point. Victorinox makes thousands of time the number of knives GEC does annually, and makes them the exact same every single time. No, they aren't the same type of knife, but the ability to make a consistent, repeatable quality knife is a really amazing thing. And to make it that repeatable in the quantity that they make is absolutely insane. Given that logic, GEC should be almost perfect. Remember there is a big difference between 99.38% and 99.99966% correct. The first is 6210 defective parts per million. The second, just 3.4.

However, I still say it's a moot point. Who cares? Learn to sharpen. If your knife isn't sharp, sharpen it. Put it in your pocket and go on with life. Life is too short to worry. A custom should be sharp upon receipt, no doubt. Production, I could care less.

But this is a knife forum, and we obsess about those things. It's what makes us knife nuts I guess.
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Great post, and the part I highlighted gave me a chuckle. I don't know about anyone else, but you have me pegged :D
 
Medicevan;I agree with learn to sharpen the knives and problem over, as the OP asked was out of the box I've had apprentices bring RR TO WORK AND ABOUT 50% were sharp and I checked them because on stresscones they have to be razor sharp to dodge semi-conductors and dielectrics if there dull they will rip the layers....Now Robin some of the handle pins on RR are fake(look inside the blade well on your RR and see if the pins are in there) I've had a couple of apprentices break there RR'S and newer schrades and the pins didn't go thru the handles they were glued with out a doubt.also while stripping out cables while under heavy presure the blade pins loosened up often especially RR and the new Imperials in due respect I saw a GEC losen up also and I have snapped a tip on a Buck 288.Oh yea linner lock knive on modern folders don't stand up well under heavy presure.Just my observation with 40yrs in the trade.
 
My story. I once worked outdoors and wore colored jeans with a watch pocket. A small knife went there, and many days a larger knife went in a sheath on the belt. Over some years I came to carry only a Buck 303 Cadet in my watch pocket and that single action began me as a collector of the breed. I carried a light Buck 422 (plastic scaled 112) on my belt in a nylon sheath and as I became more office bound just as the computer world started, I carried a TL-29 on my belt quite a bit. After retirement I changed clothes and seldom wear pants with a watch pocket. I wear a pocket sheath inside a front pocket but tied to the belt some but have shamed myself by mainly carrying a knife with a pocket clip. Shame is my constant companion I guess. I respect a man carrying a SAC, I see other knives as just the way of the world, much like redheads or blonds. The older ones seem to catch my eye, I guess my eye is getting older....

I watch you people show knives I would pickup and carry in a heartbeat if I needed one and didn't have one already. My current shame knife is a Buck and I can clip it in my pocket. It has a thick spine and the metal has the accent of northern Europe. Like many of you I worked my way through stones, carbide scrapers, rods and diamonds. The few Bucks I buy come sharp but I like a mirror looking edge and will rework them fairly quickly. If I approach the sharpening of a old TL-29 made by Schrade with the correct spirit it's carbon blade gets circumcisom sharp. A old 112 in 440C takes some effort but will get a 'whole' deer sharp. I know s30v is superior but I get along with the lower cost of Bos 420hc. As a admitted collector I have knives I never touch, so a half dozen EDCs works for me, as does my Lansky 4 rod holder system. If I have to reprofile I get out the big Lansky gizmo. So I enjoy the metal comments and everyones photos, but guess I will go on being who I am as a narrow minded shameful knife user. ....that's my story along this threads theme. 300
 
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Check out the Northfield River Jack. Comes with CPM154. Im new to traditionals and a steel junkie. So was a little disappointed to see the very
limited steel offerings in the traditional blades. Think Im going to pull the trigger and get a the river jack in Ebony. Should be a great user with the
nice steel.
 
garddogg56 said:
Medicevan;I agree with learn to sharpen the knives and problem over, as the OP asked was out of the box I've had apprentices bring RR TO WORK AND ABOUT 50% were sharp and I checked them because on stresscones they have to be razor sharp to dodge semi-conductors and dielectrics if there dull they will rip the layers....Now Robin some of the handle pins on RR are fake(look inside the blade well on your RR and see if the pins are in there) I've had a couple of apprentices break there RR'S and newer schrades and the pins didn't go thru the handles they were glued with out a doubt.also while stripping out cables while under heavy presure the blade pins loosened up often especially RR and the new Imperials in due respect I saw a GEC losen up also and I have snapped a tip on a Buck 288.Oh yea linner lock knive on modern folders don't stand up well under heavy presure.Just my observation with 40yrs in the trade.
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Well, I just spent time checking every RR I have and EVERY ONE has pins through the liners holding the scales on. I'd love to see any proof of your claim of no pins (other than some of the pearls).

Robin
 
Back to post no. 1 ........

Thunderwood said:
The last 4 slipjoint knives I bought (case cv and bear and son carbon) came dull as a banana! Few of them even kept an edge after sharpening with a lansky!? ... I looked into GEC but I'm getting similar reviews.

My question is this: are there any factory slippies that come sharp, easy to sharpen, retain a decent edge???
Or is that a thing of the past?
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All I can tell you is my experience (not what I've read here or there). Over the past 10 years or so, I've purchased new knives from Case, Buck and GEC.* All of them were sharp out of the box. Razor, scary, hair-popping, look-at-it-and-wilt sharp? No. But they were darn sharp enough to drop into my pocket and cut anything I'd need to cut over the course of the day.

So to answer the question: In my experience some factory slippies do still come sharp; it's not a thing of the past.

-- Mark

* And Opinel and Victorinox and Gerber and Leatherman, etc.
 
mnblade said:
(...)So to answer the question: In my experience some factory slippies do still come sharp; it's not a thing of the past.

-- Mark

(...)
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The flipside is also true. In spite of the many positive attributes of older knives (from '70s and earlier), I see just as many of them with what I'd call 'display' edges on them. Edges that look very nice to the naked eye (usually with high-polish blades), but with bevels that are extremely narrow and almost not seen. Running the edge over a fingertip reveals they're butterknife dull, with what's apparently very obtuse edge angles. The one thing that sometimes makes it still 'work' anyway, is a very, very thin blade grind overall.

There isn't (and never was) a production maker in existence that didn't produce a dull factory edge at times. In the sheer volume of knives produced by human hands over the span of decades (or a century, in Case's example), it's inevitable. It doesn't surprise me at all, that one individual with 5-10 knives from a particular maker will say they all came razor-sharp, and another with a similarly-sized collection from the same company will complain they all came dull. They're both right, and it's completely normal and expected, as I see it. There's no such thing as 100% perfect, 100% of the time. This is why I don't even worry about what the factory edge will be; I already know I'm going to re-bevel it and make it better (for me) than whatever the factory gives me anyway.


David
 
bill boyd said:
This is just nuts. I don't care how often someone repeats what they read on the internet I ain't swallowin' that Kool-Aid.
Which company, old or new, ever advertised "we use only premium materials in building our knives and send them out
as sharp as a marble so you can put the perfect edge on it".
By that logic they should just sell a blade blank so you can put the perfect grind, swedges, and nicks or long pulls as you
desire on your knife and get it just the way you want it.
Until it cuts it is just a knife looking object.

No disrespect intended to anyone but a new knife ought to be sharp enough to be usable.

Mike
Click to expand...

I didn't read it on the internet. I've been using/carrying knives since the 1970s. Back then, in my experience, Schrades (for example) generally came razor sharp, at least the carbon steel ones I had. But some of the Camillus or Camillus-contracted pocketknives I had needed work OOB. Sometimes I could run my thumb along the thick edges without breaking skin (not the smartest thing to try, but I was a kid and the edges on those particular knives came like butter knives). So what other explanation is there? What benefit would it be for me to make up such a story??

Jim
 
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