Looking for the right steel.

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Knifemakersmurf

Joined
Jan 5, 2015
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Hello, I am new to these threads and I am new to knife making. I have been thinking of making a knife for myself. The knife I want to make is a bowie knife. The trick is I have been doing a lot of research on blade material and steels that are out their and obviously the best steels to start with is 5160 or 1095. Everyone seems to think so. However, I would like to make this knife out of a stainless steel variety. The problems is I want this stainless steel to be able to perform like 5160. I want it to have a spring temper and be corrosive resistant. I also want to be able to Normalize, quench and Temper this steel in my garage with simple tools. As far as I can tell this steel doesn't exist. I have looked at about everyone internet source I can get my hands on and most Stainless steels that might be able to have a similar toughness to 5160 usually require this incredibly complex Quenching process and needs to be tempered at a very exact temperature usually requiring a special oven.

But for shits and giggles I thought I would lay out the quality I want in the steel and if anyone knows what steel I should be using please let me know.

I want to be able to Do a differential Quench and Temper
I want to be able to use simple tools and quenching methods
I want the steel once tempered to be able to bend at least 45 degrees with out snapping and then I want it to spring back to its original position.
I want the steel to be stainless.
and Of course I want it to hold an edge well enough.

If such a metal exists please let me know.

The idea I am going for is I want a all around bush craft / Survival knife. I want something that can be taken into the woods camping. Isn't going to rust over night with the morning Dew. But, is going to be able to cut through large branches. Can be used as a Emergency Pry Bar and can be used to prepare food.

The reason I want to make it myself is because I have looked and I can not really find a knife that matches the quality I am looking for in the market place at the price I am looking to spend. Plus, I think it would be a fun project and something I could be proud of afterwards. Their are some badass survival/hunting knives out their. But, once you start talking quality and being able to do all the things I want it to be able to do the price shoots up into the 100s if not the 1000s of dollars fairly quickly. I do not know if I want to spend 100s of dollars on a knife that is going to get the crap kicked out of it. So, I figure I would make it and get the satisfaction of making a knife myself and save money. This way if it gets destroyed I can just make another one.

Thank you
 
"As far as I can tell this steel doesn't exist." You are correct, it doesn't.
"The reason I want to make it myself is because I have looked and I can not really find a knife that matches the quality I am looking for in the market place at the price I am looking to spend." By the time you learn all the needed skills to make one, you could have flipped enough burgers to buy a custom with gold trim.

Making knives is a challenging field......do it for fun, do it for the challenge, don't do it to save money.
Start with 1084.......you can heat treat it with simple methods, and when you find the miracle steel you seek, please share it with the rest of us.:D

Oh, and you probably would get more responses in shop talk.
Darcy:)
 
no such metal exist sorry. try AEB-l for a tough stainless that holds and edge well (does not come in thicknesses greater than .130) but it is not differential harden able. for a non stainless that can be differentially heat treated try W2 or 1084 for ease of working and heat treating. The ability to bend a knife to 45 degrees is based on the geometry and toughness not the steel and why would you want to bend a knife that much in the first place. Also what DElis said in the last year I have spent over $1500 on knife making and am probably going to spend more this year and loving it but you wont make much if any money for at least a few years.
 
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but you wont make much if any money for at least a few years
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I really do not want to make money. I have looked into it and the chances that I get the funds together to compete with some of these other knife makers in the market place is slim. A lot of them use CNC machines. Which gives them the ability to do very complex stuff to materials of all types. I am just interested in making a knife for myself. If not to save money then to have the accomplishment of doing so. But, at the same time I do not want to spend a ton of money on tools and equipment. Which is why I wanted something easier to work with. I will more than likely just use 5160 or 1065,1085 or 1095. I think that if I leave some of the scale on it should prevent some rusting. I do not want to coat the steel in anything for protection because I hear that it can be toxic in food. But, if I keep it oiled and coat it in wax it should be fine. Thank you.
 
The steel you're looking for is called Unobtanium.
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Not really. I know all the attributes I listed can be done to 5160 steel. It is just not "stainless steel" I guess the 12 percent chromium is what makes it so impossible to get the same results out of. I do not really understand all the ins and outs of metallurgy. But, 5160 isn't that much different than 14c28n excluding the Chromium content. But, 14c28n can not be heated treated as easily and doesn't take a spring temper, as far as I'm aware. I guess the Chromium is what makes the steel so difficult to heat treat. But, past the corrosion resistances 5160 can have a differential heat treat, can be given a spring temper, can be worked easily and can be treated using basic quenching and heat treat methods.....it just rusts really easily. I'm looking for a 5160 that doesn't rust :)
 
Knifemakersmurf said:
The idea I am going for is I want a all around bush craft / Survival knife. I want something that can be taken into the woods camping. Isn't going to rust over night with the morning Dew. But, is going to be able to cut through large branches. Can be used as a Emergency Pry Bar and can be used to prepare food.

The reason I want to make it myself is because I have looked and I can not really find a knife that matches the quality I am looking for in the market place at the price I am looking to spend.
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Buy a Becker Campanion (BK2) and one of the new ESEE stainless Izula's. Use the Izula for food prep and fine tasks and use the BK2 for heavy work. total OTD price for both knives should be $225 or less.

if you want to make a knife for the satisfaction of doing it yourself, that is one thing. But don't do it thinking you are going to save money over buying one. Trust us on that one. :)

randy
 
if you want to make a knife for the satisfaction of doing it yourself, that is one thing. But don't do it thinking you are going to save money over buying one. Trust us on that one.
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I retract the saving money statement. I want to do it for fun. That and I feel I could make something that would be built exactly the way I want it. I really don't need just any knife at this point. I actually have enough to get by. Although the knives you listed look like good blades for a fair price.

But......
By the time you learn all the needed skills to make one, you could have flipped enough burgers to buy a custom with gold trim.
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I have to challenge this statement. I have worked fast food before and refuse to ever work it again. Because, it is actually financially retarded. Just for the two knives listed above I would have to work 3 months or more at a fast food place to afford them... All other expenses included. Such as gas, food , insurance Ect, ect. To buy a really really good knife by a custom knife maker. It might be a year or two to accomplish. Which, I am not hear to say it isn't worth it. Some of these custom knives I have seem are beautiful. But, if you are flipping burgers for it. You might have other problems to worry about. Because, that thousand dollar knife is going to take you a year or two to actually accomplish and even then you might have to decide between that and something much more important like a car repair or rent or a doctors visit. Everyone that works fast food should quit. no joke. I hate to turn this into a political thing but it really just doesn't get you anywhere.
 
Ok, so you want to make a knife. You're going to have to compromise. Either send it out for heat treatment (this isn't very expensive) and use any steel you want or abandon the stainless requirement and use 1084 (seeing your blade glowing red is fun). I went the middle route and built an oven. Theoretically I could do stainless but simple carbon steel makes great blades.

I don't understand the bending requirement so I'm just going say it sounds silly and you should abandon that requirement.
 
12c27 is popular in europe... not as much here really, although a lot of people praise their mora blades and older Barkies, and do so with good reason because it works well... it's just not "new and sexy" however it performs a lot like carbon steel and is stainless. It has very fine grain structure and is one of the toughest stainless steels out there and takes a razor edge easily and holds it fairly well. Sure it doesn't hold an edge like the top cutters, but the kicker that it's easy to resharpen in the field which most outdoorsmen will tell you they would prefer to one that holds an edge 3 times as long that you can't sharpen easily.

P.S. +1 for sending your blade out to HT... i know it's fun to do it yourself, but if you want most of the things you listed you'll have to compromise.
 
Knifemakersmurf said:
I retract the saving money statement. I want to do it for fun. That and I feel I could make something that would be built exactly the way I want it. I really don't need just any knife at this point. I actually have enough to get by. Although the knives you listed look like good blades for a fair price.

But......


I have to challenge this statement. I have worked fast food before and refuse to ever work it again. Because, it is actually financially retarded. Just for the two knives listed above I would have to work 3 months or more at a fast food place to afford them... All other expenses included. Such as gas, food , insurance Ect, ect. To buy a really really good knife by a custom knife maker. It might be a year or two to accomplish. Which, I am not hear to say it isn't worth it. Some of these custom knives I have seem are beautiful. But, if you are flipping burgers for it. You might have other problems to worry about. Because, that thousand dollar knife is going to take you a year or two to actually accomplish and even then you might have to decide between that and something much more important like a car repair or rent or a doctors visit. Everyone that works fast food should quit. no joke. I hate to turn this into a political thing but it really just doesn't get you anywhere.
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You can challenge the statement if you like......I stand by it. I've been building knives(part time) for about 20 years, and while I have enjoyed the ride and can make a half decent knife now, I would have been money ahead to save up and buy a Fisk, Fuegen, or Hancock.......
The fast food part of my statement was mostly tongue in cheek............wasn't trying to hit a nerve.
Welcome to Bladeforums.

Darcy:)
 
As everyone else in the thread as said, the traits you are looking for are pretty much diametrically opposed. Unless your garage has a heat treating kiln, treating stainless in the same manner as simple steel like 5160/ O1/ !085 is impossible. And also, why a spring temper? In swords it is very helpful to assist in the high forces that the tip endures, but a household knife should never undergo these stresses. And besides all that, you say you are new to knife making. Dont start out trying to make this perfect knife out as Unobtanium "thank you Darrin". Get some 1084 from Aldo, maybe some O1, and see if you really enjoy the craft. If you like what you do with a file and a small sander, increase your tools and start to get into the higher end steels. Jumping into the deep end of expensive steel right away is a great way to blow a lot of money and turn yourself off to knife making forever. Start it slow and ask question.

Ben
 
Like a previous poster said you can mail your blade out for heat treat for around $20 or so including shipping. Then you can use any steel you would like

http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services

Use air quenchable steels such as 440C, 440V, 154CM, ATS34, D2, A2, etc. at texas knife as they only do stainless like you want.

I order steel from here njsteelbaron.com

This filing jig works well and is not expensive to make.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9iNDRwwBQQ
 
Welcome to bladeforums. Please fill out your profile to let us know where you are. You may be near a very talented maker who can help you in your journey.

Also, my suggestion is to make your own knife but start slow and small. Once you have mastered the basics of filing, and profile, then you can make something larger that you'll be proud of.
 
And also, why a spring temper? In swords it is very helpful to assist in the high forces that the tip endures, but a household knife should never undergo these stresses.
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Because, this isn't going to be a Household knife. I think being able to take atleast a 45 degree flex is a very important trait in a Survival/ bushcraft knife. If you have ever looked into the original Bowie Knife. It was designed to be used as a Chopper, Fighter and a Shovel. That is why they were given such a Broad Design. It was so when you were out on the frontier you could use your Bowie knife to Cut threw Brush, Defend yourself from animal and people attacks and be used as a Shovel if need be. Also, I really do not need just any knife at this point. As I have already said I actually have enough knives to get me by almost any situation. If I am just looking for something that cuts I actually have quite a collection of knives. What I do not have is a knife that can take the abuse. I have actually had to throw a few away over the years because I did things to them that they were not really designed for. But, this thread was really just to see if a stainless steel that functioned like 5160 or 1095 existed. I have been searching the internet over for a couple days and I have not found a stainless that I can easily work in my garage. I figured going to a forum of knife makers and blade enthusiast would save me the time.

............wasn't trying to hit a nerve
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Don't worry about that. I know what you were trying to say. But, you would be better off stealing a knife if you work fastfood.:p Which is why a lot of people that work fast food end up getting arrested or at the very least fired.
 
To my knowledge, without a kiln there is no stainless steel that can be heat treated in the home. And again, you want to make a very high quality knife, but oyu cant just start there. You need to make knives out of simpler stuff first and work your way up to being able to make very high quality blades. You cant start at the top.
 
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