Looking for the right steel.

You might try D2, it's not stainless but it's more stain resistant than plain carbon steels. It's pretty tough stuff too and comes it pretty thick bar stock
 
I had a really good response written earlier, but I didn't get to send it. But it seems you have everything figured out. Good luck with your quest.
 
You know what, I'll go ahead and say a little bit. I changed my mind.

You need to start reading and stop talking for a few minutes.

https://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/lnb01

Flex is a function of geometry and hardness. I can make a knife at 62 that will flex 90°. It will be super thin. A thick knife has to be much softer to accomplish it, if it even will.

A lot of early trade knives, and the "original Bowie knife" was basically a kitchen knife. Thin, and designed to be used as a KNIFE. Even now, an Old Hickory paring knife makes a very capable outdoors knife.

I think you need to read a few actual period accounts of knives and blade use in that era. A knife could be expensive and people took care of their tools. Used them when they needed them, but took care of them.

If you want a stainless you can work in your garage, then just pick one already. Send it out for heat treat. You aren't going to be able to backyard heat treat any stainless. A whole forum dedicated to knifemakers has told you that.

It seems you have a whole heck of a lot of opinions and not a lot of facts.

And knock off the bs about fast food workers. Seriously. Generalities just make you look like a jackass. Any job, no matter the level, is moral if done well.
 
And knock off the bs about fast food workers. Seriously. Generalities just make you look like a jackass. Any job, no matter the level, is moral if done well.
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I've worked fast food dude. <<<< So, I tend think I know how it is. When I did I would make 800 dollars a month working full 40 hour weeks. I was one of the best employees the company had and they never would give me a raise. Mathematically speaking in the town I live in rent alone on the cheap end cost a minimum of 600 dollars a month. So, a 800 dollar pay check after food, gas, insurance and all of the other expenses someone needs to pay in order to live and be legal puts the individual in the whole every month. So, it is actually impossible to live a moral Life in a fast food joint. It is why I will never work in a fast food joint again. I did it for 2 years. Never happening again. I tend to think anyone that has worked fast food would know that. Sooo.. I do not think I am being offensive at all. If they actually worked fast food they would just say Damn right.

Past that. I will take the information you gave me into consideration. Thank you.
 
Make it out of AEB-L (which is a stainless that acts like a carbon steel but can not be heat treated with out special tools) and send it to peters heat treat when you gave it the way you like.
 
I'd start with pre-made blades (inexpensive ones). I'd pick up several Russell Green River blades. I'd get several sheath blades and one of the 15" OAL butcher blades. Then start experimenting with the sheath blades. Toss one in your kitchen oven at the highest setting and leave it there for a couple of hours. Take it out and toss it into a metal bucket full of cool water. Their steel is (said to be) 1095 CV. Carefully test it to see if it will bend to 45 degrees ... without breaking and return to true. If it doesn't, you'll need a hotter heat source. You could run a spine temper with a torch after the oven temper (as an example). Let us know how things turn out.
 
Guys, maybe I'm beating my head against a wall, but in what possible situation would a "survival knife" need to bend to 45°?? Seriously.

The bend test from the ABS JS test is to prove the maker's control of heat treat, not necessarily make the best knife possible. If you look at the actual test sheet, you'll see that they allow a certain amount of breakage of the blade edge in relation to the total blade width. No way is a thick, hard blade going to bend without breaking.

Spring temper is approx 45-50 on a slipjoint spring and I doubt you'd get one of them to flex and return to 45°. That's find to make a really crappy, really heavy (you wanted thick, remember) blade, even if it would flex like you want it to, which I seriously doubt.

1095 is going to take 700° F to get down to 49, 800° F to get to 45 and 900°F to get to 41. My oven sure doesn't go near that hot. Don't give bad advice to someone who doesn't listen to good advice.

We all are responsible for bringing this forum back to the glory it once had before some of the greats left. This is why they don't post here much or at all anymore. No one will listen to them, so why even try.
 
Forget bending, if you don't need a fillet knife, what's the point ?
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Because, I already have a cheap 24 dollar bowie knife that cuts things. If I am going to go through the trouble of doing all this work and putting all this research and effort into it I want it to be able to do more than cut stuff. My expectations might be high. But, I am a very logical form and function type of person. So, I look at what things can actually do. I am not really fixated on their visual appearance. Although, I am sure a number of the knives out their are very attractive. But, if I can't take them out side and beat them into the ground I do not know why I would need them. Of course, I do not want it to act like a piece of rubber either and just flop around back and forth. I want it to take a bend if it has to. But, I want it to take a large load in order to bend in the first place.
 
I am not getting the bend to 45 and snap back need. Why not just strong enough to not bend and not break? I have a chopper made out of 5/16 5160 that refuses to break and doesn't really bend either. It's essentially a comp chopper style, and I can hardly flex it at all even though I am 6'1" and 230. I can't imagine short of putting it is a vise and jumping on it how I could possibly even get it to flex that far. Basically one knife in one steel with all the properties you want is not possible. I'm not trying to be a dick but you will have to set more realistic goals for the knife if you plan to make it. I would love a sword that is super light, won't rust, can bend in a circle without breaking, and cut through train rail in a single swing, but it's not gonna happen.
 
Grayzer86 said:
I am not getting the bend to 45 and snap back need. Why not just strong enough to not bend and not break? I have a chopper made out of 5/16 5160 that refuses to break and doesn't really bend either. It's essentially a comp chopper style, and I can hardly flex it at all even though I am 6'1" and 230. I can't imagine short of putting it is a vise and jumping on it how I could possibly even get it to flex that far. Basically one knife in one steel with all the properties you want is not possible. I'm not trying to be a dick but you will have to set more realistic goals for the knife if you plan to make it. I would love a sword that is super light, won't rust, can bend in a circle without breaking, and cut through train rail in a single swing, but it's not gonna happen.
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I already explained my reasoning. 5160 can bend to a full 90 degrees if you temper it correctly. Check out Zombietools.net. Watch what all of those blades can do. I was asking if their was a stainless that could perform like that.......:D
 
Short answer is no steel will do all that you want, stainless, carbon, Damascus or adamantium . Long answer involves the length and grind of those blades etc. yes it's extremely tough, but blade length factors greatly in the bend tests also. A blade that length has a giant radius at 90 degrees compared to a blade with a 4-5-7 inch blade. It's not even apples to oranges it's apples to elephants. The master smith test blades that servive the 90 degree test almost never spring back straight, they stay with some degree of a bend, and the edge is allowed to crack up to 1/3 of the way up from the edge I believe. People are trying to give you real world advice based on proven methods, facts and practices, to save you time, frustration, money. We can look all we want for a unicorn too but it's not out there. Not that most of these professional knife makers know much though. In all seriousness the only thing I can think of at all that may half way meet some of these wants, would be a blade in some type of San Mai construction. Maybe some type of 5160 or L6 core with lower RC and a non hardened stainless jacket.
 
This one rates double butter on the popcorn it's so amusing.

I've noticed that China is loosening its restrctions on shipping rare earths so the steel he wants may become available. I didn't say affordable......

Corey
 
The destruction tests on that site are Tests. They are not demonstrations of or recommendations for field use. Taking a knife through that kind of testing can seriously harm any blade, which is the last thing you want if you need to rely on it in the field. From that site:

"This video was a destructive test, meant to thoroughly trash the blade, and not a suggestion that you go out and chop on the old washing machine in your back yard with your new Tool. This sort of thing is dangerous (we probably should have taken more precautions) and hitting metal and stone will damage your edge, scratch your finish, and eventually break your blade. Our 5160 steel is tough, but is isn’t magical."
 
Knifemakersmurf said:
I already explained my reasoning. 5160 can bend to a full 90 degrees if you temper it correctly. Check out Zombietools.net. Watch what all of those blades can do. I was asking if their was a stainless that could perform like that.......:D
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And we have all told you such a steel does not exist! No one is holding back until you explain the real reason or anything like that. There is no steel with that level of flex that is also stainless. There is also no stainless steel you can heat treat at home. There is also no perfect knife a beginner is going to make. Either settle for 5160, get some 440C, or read a few books on metallurgy and knife making and realize what you are asking for is impossible even if you had the skill to create a high quality knife. I know this sounds harsh, but you are acting like a fool and being quite mean to a very helpful forum and it is rather upsetting to me.
 
If stainless pry bars are made that flex to 45 degrees and return to true, that might be the place to start. I believe that it would be easier to make a pry bar into a knife than a knife into a pry bar.
 
Bo T said:
If stainless pry bars are made that flex to 45 degrees and return to true, that might be the place to start. I believe that it would be easier to make a pry bar into a knife than a knife into a pry bar.
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Bo T, I tried to subtly tell you this on another post. Now I'm going to be rather blunt. Stop. Giving. Wrong. Advice. You don't know what you're talking about. Please stop. He isn't listening to good advice. Don't confuse him by making him sort through downright bad advice as well. Please.
 
hellspawn415 said:
And we have all told you such a steel does not exist! No one is holding back until you explain the real reason or anything like that. There is no steel with that level of flex that is also stainless. There is also no stainless steel you can heat treat at home. There is also no perfect knife a beginner is going to make. Either settle for 5160, get some 440C, or read a few books on metallurgy and knife making and realize what you are asking for is impossible even if you had the skill to create a high quality knife. I know this sounds harsh, but you are acting like a fool and being quite mean to a very helpful forum and it is rather upsetting to me.
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See, this is a good post. I'd have said something like "Stop being a freaking idiot and listen to people who know more than you!" However, your way is probably more politic. Probably good I didn't say that.

Smurf, let me be very direct. You are on the WAY WRONG PATH. Stop now, check your ego, and take some advice from people that have been there before. If you stop now, the guys on here will be back in droves to help you, myself included. Look at posts by bushcraftboy or some similar screen name for instance. He started out being dumb and ended up learning something, but only after he stopped to listen.

Notice how a great deal of guys on here go by their real names? That's not an accident. We don't hide. We aren't nameless and faceless keyboard commandos who kind of guess at a what we say. We are real knifemakers with real experience. Some of us are hobbyists only, some part time, some even full time. Don't insult us by asking advice and being too bull headed to heed it.

I leave you with this quote. You say you are rational and logical. I suggest you check to see if that is actually true.

"Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking."

"If you don't know, the thing to do is not to get scared, but to learn."

Ok, that was two quotes, but it's a damn good book!
 
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