Looking to Expand My Bladesmithing Skills

T

T.O. Rye

Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
53
Hello all!
I'm a fairly new bladesmith, and I'm looking to learn more about traditional blade forging. Up until now, I've been using stock removal techniques to make knives, and I've gotten to the point where I can bring to life just about any blade design (within reason for an amateur) that I can draw on a piece of steel. And I'd be happy to post some pictures of some of the blades I've made so far if someone wouldn't mind explaining how to properly post pictures on here in *very* simple terms; I have about the same internet/electronic device knowledge as the average caveman. Lol 😂 But I digress; my question is: what is the best method to practice forging before actually working with the hot steel? I've heard that shaping modeling clay with a wooden hammer is a good way to practice the technique, but is there a better way than that? Also, any general advice on forging techniques, tool selection, or anything else you can think of would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks guys!
 
I'd say just jump in and hammer some steel. Get a bar or two of 1084 to try out forging your first blades from. Or, if you must practice first, get some plain ol' A36 or 1018 mild steel from your local steel merchant.

To post a pic from your computer, just click the little "insert image" button in the post window. Then, follow the instructions. Easy peasy. A better way is to upload your photo(s) to an online image hosting service, such as photobucket, google+, etc. Then "hotlink" the image here by pasting the image url between image tags.

Like this:

(no spaces though.)

And it should pop up.

Get some books on forging. "The $50 knife shop," or "The complete modern bladesmith" will get you started. Or read a lot in stickies here, or watch a lot done on youtube. Better yet, find a local smith to show you a few things.
 
If you can make it happen, go to the Moran School of Bladesmithing in Hope Arkansas. ( Texarkana College)
http://www.americanbladesmith.com/index.php?section=pages&id=128

It will teach you more in a week than you will learn on your own in a year.

Also, check out the classes in western NC held by the ABS and others. These are often called "Hammer-in's". They have weekend and all week events and classes.
 
Thanks for the advice guys! I'll actually be taking some metalsmithing and blacksmithing classes for my degree (Bachelor of Fine Arts with a focus on metal work) but I was hoping to get an early start on my own so I could hopefully be ahead of the curve a bit. By the way, do either of you know anything about the master blacksmith who teaches the Blacksmithing classes for Tennessee Tech? The smithing is done at a local craft center called "The Appalachian Center for Crafts." I know that some teaching smiths have profiles on forums like this, so I figured somebody might have heard about him/her through the grapevine.
Thanks for the photo sharing tips Salem! I'm going to try to post a few pics now, we'll see if it works! Haha
 
This is a picture of my first successful knife, it's not much to look at in retrospect, but I was pretty proud of it at the time 😉
 
This was my second knife; I made it as a compact chopping tool, and general workhorse blade. It's not the prettiest thing in the world, but it does all I ask it to do.
 
This is my third knife in the early stages of completion; you can see the finished handle in the first phot I posted, it's the red one.
 
This is another early photo of the last knife I completed, and you can also it's finished handle in the first photo
 
As an arts student, you should look at those last two and ask yourself, "Why is the blade at an extreme angle to the handle?", and "Why is the blade so fat?". These are issues where design and function need to meet, not diverge. If the answer was, "Because it looks cool/artsy/etc." then you need to redesign them. If there is a particular task that they do better than a straighter and narrower knife, then it is OK....as long as t hat is what they will be doing. As they are now, they will try to twist in the hand during cutting, due to the force applied at the edge being so far in front of the resistance forge (grip) applied to the handle. That will cause the edge to try and rotate on the axis of the handle. What you have is the reverse mechanical advantage ( mechanical dis-advantage ?).

On your utility chopper, I don't understand all the reverse curves at all. It almost looks like you put the edge on the wrong side. It has to be very uncomfortable to use with the handle curving the wrong way.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
As an arts student, you should look at those last two and ask yourself, "Why is the blade at an extreme angle to the handle?", and "Why is the blade so fat?". These are issues where design and function need to meet, not diverge. If the answer was, "Because it looks cool/artsy/etc." then you need to redesign them. If there is a particular task that they do better than a straighter and narrower knife, then it is OK....as long as t hat is what they will be doing. As they are now, they will try to twist in the hand during cutting, due to the force applied at the edge being so far in front of the resistance forge (grip) applied to the handle. That will cause the edge to try and rotate on the axis of the handle. What you have is the reverse mechanical advantage ( mechanical dis-advantage ?).

On your utility chopper, I don't understand all the reverse curves at all. It almost looks like you put the edge on the wrong side. It has to be very uncomfortable to use with the handle curving the wrong way.
Click to expand...

If you do want that pistol grip angle, you can reduce the twisting effect (i feel like it eliminates it completely, but that's my experience only) by using a higher/slimmer grip profile. Wider tang, thinner scales.
View attachment 570550
Testing this out I did some pretty silly cutting, and it wasn't twisting. The closer to round you get in your grip profile, the more grip instability (and lack of instinctive edge index) will ensue.
 
The design of the chopper is based on the Asian-Pacific parang machetes, and in many of the examples I've seen they incorporate similar reverse curves in the design. Personally, I've found that the handle is very comfortable for chopping, and the curve of the handle also allows you to swing through a target ahead of the blade, which gives the cutting edge more time to gain momentum.
As for the other two knives, the blades are fairly thin and flexible (similar to a fillet knife), and from what I've experienced when cutting with the more curvy of the two knives, the flexibility of the blade seems to mitigate most or all of the handle twist. The comparative fatness of the blades was meant to make them more resistant to taking a permanent bend if they were ever put in a bind during use, and both of these knives are designed with skinning in mind, hence the curves. Also, I've received many compliments on the aesthetics of both knives; a guy from my local church even wants one made just like the more curved of the two.

Just so you know, I do appreciate your input, Stacy. It may not be what I want to hear, but I understand that you're just trying to make me a better blademaker; so thank you for your critiques. :)
 
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Thanks for the input Bensinger; I may try that on any subsequent revisits of these designs :). Could you try posting the link to the picture again though? For some reason the website isn't accepting it as a valid link.
 
I really like that recurved edge on the knife in your profile picture, Bensinger! Been wanting to make one similar to that myself :). I've heard that extreme recurves like that really help the leading edge dig into the target during a cut; has that been your experience as well, and does that design offer any other advantages over a more traditional blade shape?
 
Those two in the photo you posted look excellent, and I really like the striated grip. Is it horn of some sort or just a synthetic you've carved the grooves into?
 
This is another design I'm currently working on right now. I'm thinking about thinning the tang a bit and making it a hidden tang knife. Any thoughts on that or the design in general? Also, I think that part of the edge near the tip is a bit flat; do any of you see a flat spot there?
 
T.O. Rye said:
Those two in the photo you posted look excellent, and I really like the striated grip. Is it horn of some sort or just a synthetic you've carved the grooves into?
Click to expand...

It's textured, buffed black gavrolite.
That recurved tip delivers a lot of pressure on the "thing" being cut, and the belly/recurve offer a lot of edge in a short blade. Pretty single-purpose shape though.
The design you have there looks pretty nice-don't know if I would make a hidden tang, but I might curve the edge-side of the grip in to match the arc of the spine side of the handle-both for flow and some knuckle clearance if you find yourself working on a board at some point.
 
I have to disagree with Stacy. Form should follow function. Art is when form and function have no connection. Numerous blades look pointless if you only consider "western" design.

When I saw the 'machete' I saw a Parang-ISH blade. The handle looks a bit weird. But if it was made for cutting brush the angle is useful. It's ergonomically better for slicing through brush. The Khukuri, which curves the other way is an all purpose knife. Authentically made khukuris aren't great as machetes but they are excellent at concentrating the force for chopping.

The Katana is a classic example of form following function.But one that most people have backwards. The curve is a product of the differential tempering process, not of design. While the curve is useful in slicing, typically only the mono-uchi is used to strike. The karambit is shaped that way for a reason. It's designed to hook, and doesn't even need to be sharp to be effective for self-defense. Outside of that use it looks like an ergonomic disaster.

The skinners are obviously skinners. My criticism is the handles being too long. Personally, using a skinner like that I'd have the blade held betwen index and middle finger and the thumb. Some people prefer the T handle skinners, Mine is a T handle but shaped like a mezzaluna. I can't speak for efficiency of effort, but handling it like a stoneage scraper allows amazing control.

My advice: If you're aiming for traditional, non-western styles (knives that have been used for ages) don't try to improve the design much. Those people have had centuries to pick and choose their tools that worked best. The environment has shaped the tool. Look at the numerous style of 'machete'. Each region has a design that works best overall. The bolo was a harvesting tool, the parang for brush, and the barong a more weaponized version. The khukuri (not really a machete) comes from the Himalayan countries, brush was less of an issue, so it's an oversized utility knife. And so on.

That said

Second bit of advice. Don't follow anyone's advice to the T. Nothing significant in human history was ever the product of doing things the same old way. Advancement has been the product of people all the way back to homo habilis thinking "What if I try..?". We keep the things that work and throw out those that don't. Experiment. Mix-up things.

Regarding the actual question. There is no perfect analogue for hot steel. It's not only how to hammer, but when (temperature/color). I'd be like learning to play the piano that made no sounds. You need to jump in.

Making a small forge is cheap and can be done in an afternoon. Done properly, it'll be small, but it will get hot enough for forging. A good anvil is trickier. You want the mass and they aren't cheep. But since you're starting with a small forge, you might get by with a chunk of rail and ear protection. Not ideal but okay for getting your feet wet.

What we need to learn, we learn by doing
 
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