Looks like I'm moving to Hollywood...

Kaizen1

Kaizen1

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2006
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So I want to make sure that I know my rights. My understanding is that if the folder has a blade 3" and under, I can carry it visibly. Above 3", and I can carry any folder, so long as it's completely concealed. Is this correct? So is my CF ZDP Caly 3 legal to carry clipped to the pocket?

Thanks
 
That's right.

Measure the blade yourself to make sure it doesn't come out to be over 3".
Longer folders must be concealed.

Over 3" must be concealed (for folders); there is no legal way to carry a fixed blade over 3" anywhere in L.A. County.
 
here is the los angeles municipal code:

SEC. 55.10. CARRY KNIVES OR DAGGERS IN PLAIN VIEW PROHIBITED.
(Added by Ord. No. 162,995, Eff. 1/7/88.)

(a) As used in this section, the term “knife” or “dagger” shall include any knife, dirk or dagger having a blade 3 inches or more in length, any ice pick or similar sharp tool, any straight edge razor or any razor blade fitted to a handle.

(b) No person shall wear or carry in plain view any knife or dagger upon any public street or other public place or in any place open to the public.

(c) The prohibitions of this section shall not apply where a person is wearing or carrying a knife or dagger for use in a lawful occupation, for lawful recreational purposes, or as a recognized religious practice, or while the person is traveling to or returning from participation in such activity.
 
MORIMOTOM said:
here is the los angeles municipal code:

SEC. 55.10. CARRY KNIVES OR DAGGERS IN PLAIN VIEW PROHIBITED.
(Added by Ord. No. 162,995, Eff. 1/7/88.)

(a) As used in this section, the term “knife” or “dagger” shall include any knife, dirk or dagger having a blade 3 inches or more in length, any ice pick or similar sharp tool, any straight edge razor or any razor blade fitted to a handle.

(b) No person shall wear or carry in plain view any knife or dagger upon any public street or other public place or in any place open to the public.

(c) The prohibitions of this section shall not apply where a person is wearing or carrying a knife or dagger for use in a lawful occupation, for lawful recreational purposes, or as a recognized religious practice, or while the person is traveling to or returning from participation in such activity.
Click to expand...

I am in the Bay area but do go down to LA quite a lot. I keep my folders concealed and have not have a problem yet.

Would an emerson la griffe concealed be legal? Since the blade is under 3 inches. Another forum member carries a la griffe in LA county so I'm a little bit confused on the legalities of it. Thanks.
 
sorry, i have to correct myself. i was only considering the muni/county laws.


the state penal code prohibits concealed carry of a dirk/dagger, ie any fixed blade.
 
afterdark, disregard my previous post regarding the la griffe, sorry for contributing to the confusion. i made changes.
 
Thanks for the help guys. So how do I measure the blade on my Caly 3? Is it the edge or is it from the tip to the handle?
 
i havent found anything in any of the laws that specifies how a knife should be measured.

i have read about cases that suggest only the cutting edge should be measured, but that is by no means a guarantee.
 
Looking at the codes again, it says that we can't "wear or carry in plain view". Does this also mean that I can't pull out my knife to use anywhere in public?
 
i have found that California in general is pretty law intensive in theory, and pretty tolerant in practice.


if you need to use a knife, go ahead - tactfully, so you don't stampede the sheeple, of which their are many here.

if some one other than a cop asks you to show it to them, tell them to go to hell. - don't ever brandish a weapon and you should stay out of trouble easily.


always surrender your knife to a cop with a smile.

chances are, you will get it back - maybe with a little cop drool on it....



the only folks i have ever seen picked on for carrying a knife in California were complete freaks.

good luck, and stay cool.

vec
 
vector001 said:
the only folks i have ever seen picked on for carrying a knife in California were complete freaks.
Click to expand...

Well, out of the over 70 criminal trials I have given testimony in, the vast majority were very normal law abiding citizens. I am not sure how much time you spend in court defending wrongfull knife related arrests, but that is my experiance.
 
i guess it depends on where you are at, and how you handle yourself.

i believe it is still a Selective Enforcement state here in California, but you are the expert, i reckon, brother clark.


that said, please enlighten me -

what do you consider a "normal law-abiding citizen"...? - and what do they look like...? they have no infractions or misdemeanors on their record...? - that's what i consider a "normal law-abiding citizen." - i don't have a man with an FBI record in my avatar though (brother rob and i go way back).

what do you consider a "wrongful knife-related arrest" ...?

who is your district attorney...?


i have apprehended a violent felon with my fixed knife in California. - he didn't enjoy it.

i'm not in jail, and the police were glad that i was there, and said so.


that's my experience. - and it seems to me that anyone with a law background would have Critical Thinking Mastery enough to realize that only the Dumb and Unlucky wind up in court. - ergo, who never came to your attention, because they never had to go to court...?

I would stipulate the majority of knife owners here would be amongst those you are not acquainted with, professionally-speaking...:cool:....

feel free to PM me, if you care to.

and thanks for serving BTW.

yours,

vec
 
Take for example this case.

22yr old UC Irvine student. No criminal record or any contact history with Law Enforcement. He was very clean cut (kinda what you would find in a typical office).

He was stopped by Irvine PD at aprox 9pm for a burned out headlight. He claimed he did not know it was burned out and I believe him ( I have had it happen to me ).

The officer asked him if he had any knives or weapons on him. The defendant gave the officer his liner locking folder. The officer flipped the knife open and arrested the defendant for a 653k (switchblade) violation.

The DA would not back off the charges and it went to a jury trial. The DA went so far as to produce tampered evidence (I proved in court that it was tampered with). The DA got a quick lesson in how to piss off a judge in one easy lesson. They also had there "expert" (another Irvine PD Officer) lie on the stand (which I was also able to prove).

In the end, after a 4 day trial, the jury found the defendant Not Guilty after 15 minutes of diliberation.

That is pretty typical of the cases I handle.

As an ex-LEO myself I can also say that it is pretty typical of LEOs to arrest first and think a few months later.

As to what lawyer I work for, I am hired on a regular basis by both LA and Orange Counties public defenders office. I am also retained regularly by several major knife manufacurers and have testified across the country in criminal knife law, civil and patent law knife cases.

As an additional point in fact. The rampant rise of knife related cases going to court and the defendants being found Not Guilty, became so high that it prompted a major article in the Orange County Times. Both myself and Bernard Levine were interviewed for the article.
 
If I read it correctly, State law says a fixed blade must be carried in the open but LA county law says a fixed blade can't be carried openly. Does that mean you really can't carry a fixed blade knife in LA county? Or did I read that wrong? Thanks.

Frank
 
Silver, that is exactly right, you can not carry a dirk or dagger in LA City. It is a city Muni, not a county Ord. So does not apply to all of LA County.

There are a few exceptions.

Religious purposes.
Job related. (cook going to and from work)
Sporting or recreation related. (hiking, fishing, re-creation activities)

You can also get into what is and is not a dirk or a dagger, but that gets to the level of spliting hairs.
 
As far as measuring the blade of a knife. I use, as does almost all factories and many DA offices, the standard set several years ago but the AKTI.

Basically this is how it works.

If you were to take a piece of thin wood and cut a slot in it the thickness of your blade, then hold the knife normally. Slide the blade into the slot as far as it will go before it hits something that stops it progess. The amount that it traveled is the blade length. So for a normal fixed blade, the obstruction would be the guard. On a folder it is normally the farthest forward point of the handle (thumb studs or disks do not count). On a skeletal knife it is normally your hand.

This method normally yields a blade length longer than the cutting edge.

I had a DA and a LEO, just last month, try to measure the blade of a CA Legal Auto from the tip to the middle of the PIVOT. In a pre-trial meeting I asked the DA how many cases she had tried in her career. I then informed her that I had worked more knife cases than all of the cases she had tried put together and told her in no uncertain terms that if she tried to convince a jury of her measuring technique that she would be laughed out of the court room. She dismissed the case.;)
 
^ 2nd. My understanding is that "dagger" just means "double edged pointy thing" (and really, way back when a "dagger" didn't have to have both sides sharpened did it?)
 
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