Lord of the Rings Swords Are Crap

I'm not sure if everyone is on the same page, regarding what is thought of as a rat-tail tang.

While the UC LOTR (the long ones) swords do have a threaded section of tang for the pommel, the tangs themselves are fairly substantial. They were not designed to be fucntional swords but they seem to have figured folk might swing them some and accounted for it in design.

What most of the current sword community view as rat-tail tangs is threaded rod welded directly to the blade, or stub of.

Yes, there have been well done custom fantasy swords. Yes, there are many suppliers of quality swords for the martial artist and test cutter. No, I'm not here to debate the use of swords in any military or civilian defense purpose.

The Noble collection stuff has a higher decorator finish and are priced accordingly.

Different strokes for different folks.

GC

there is this custom smith that made a cutting sword for a customer (gratis, I believe) just so he wouldn't beat on the pretty ones as much
 
I don't like grapefruit, but on Sunday, I don't go to church and swear at Satan for putting them on the earth. Sheesh.... people....
 
Moving to the Sword Forum ... (not that anybody there will be thrilled to have this thread ... maybe we should create a new forum for allegedly decorative sword-like objects ... but if we did, who would go there?)
 
Originally posted by Walking Man
I don't like grapefruit, but on Sunday, I don't go to church and swear at Satan for putting them on the earth. Sheesh.... people....
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And why not, might I ask? :p

The United LOTR swords are not meant to be anything other than what they are, display pieces. They were never made to be real swords. A lot of people collect this stuff for the same enjoyment that collecting anything can bring. Are these swords being bought to use in real real training? Not a chance, but you know what? I bet these swords are every bit as good as many of the ornamental Chinese swords I have seen used in Tai Chi demonstrations.
 
I'll probably but the Narsil but only for a wall-hanger if I can get a good price on one. The LOTR series are my favorite novels and I also like the movies. I'd rather have it made by an ok maker though.

While it is true that the majority of people who buy sword-like-objects are not interested in custom and hand made swords it is also true that they don't know much about swords. Most people I've talked to who were looking at, buying, and selling SLOs actually think they are real swords. To them, if it looks like a sword and is metal it is a sword. I've even met many martial artists who thought that SLOs were the same as real swords. Most people don't even know what a real sword is, so how can they tell the difference between one and a SLO?
 
Originally posted by Uath
By the way, in my opinion the best close quarters weapon combo ever invented was the cutlass and buckler. I would love to see a workout featuring this combo against a katana.

Come on ya'll. No ones going to bite at the cutlass vs katana debate. I know I've got a lot of Japanese practicioners out there. In the real encounters between samari and western weapons, the westerners won. I would like to go against a katana with a cutlass and buckler (small, metal, round sheild about the size of a searving platter). Oh yes, using reed swords and padded armor. I just can't believe that the katana's length would prove disasterous when pressed into a retreat. My best guess is that the katana would have to maintain a constant attack, lest they be pressed into a corner. I know the question isn't really fair. A real samari would be fully armored and would use his armor as a part of his fighting technique. I still think the cutlass would win.
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Your statement is profoundly dumb founding coming from a master degree holder...it's not about the weapon or technique but the amount of experience that wins a dual. A MASTER katana practitioner will out cut a novice cutlass and buckler user and vice versa. Katana attacks are usually one-slash kill and on vital parts of your body, non of that fancy fencing you'll find in european battles. You don't believe a katana's blow is disasterious enough? Try it for yourself. At the end of the day, it's the best man wins situation...believe it!

Eric.

P.S: It's Samurai, not Samari.
 
A black belt at my old dojo once told me that the average samurai dual lasted 3 moves. If both men were alive after this they were to be considered masters and often times would respectfully end the match there.

My personal vote goes to a katana for the speed of the strikes.

In my experience the boastful man usually goes home first. He has more to loose than the silent skilled man.

I also agree that skill prevails over weapon choice so long as they are in the same category.
 
Can you define "practical role-playing."

Also, If we're talking weapons sparring, I'd go spear vs. that cutalss/buckler combo.

So,if these are crap, prey tell, what are good swords in your eyes, Uath? for instance, what is that companion blade you take for long walks in the woods? Is the buckler along on the walks too?

You certainly seemto have your sword movies in line.

Keith
 
Originally posted by Uath
Come on ya'll. No ones going to bite at the cutlass vs katana debate. I know I've got a lot of Japanese practicioners out there. In the real encounters between samari and western weapons, the westerners won. I would like to go against a katana with a cutlass and buckler (small, metal, round sheild about the size of a searving platter). Oh yes, using reed swords and padded armor. I just can't believe that the katana's length would prove disasterous when pressed into a retreat. My best guess is that the katana would have to maintain a constant attack, lest they be pressed into a corner. I know the question isn't really fair. A real samari would be fully armored and would use his armor as a part of his fighting technique. I still think the cutlass would win.
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:D i knew that was a bait!!! but i'll bite. i'm always open to this kind of field test. i'm a Filipino martial artist, but i have also trained in Japanese swordsmanship,Chinese, and European fencing (period and rennaisance) i have played with reenactors before...(he)broadsword vs. (me)short staff. i found that 90% of the time i could outscore my partner with a simple thrust with my staff. Cutlass and buckler vs. katana and wakasashi will be really interesting to see. or just a katana will be fine. with armour on and wooden swords of course. we wouldn't want to hurt anyone. A Ren Fair would be an excellent environment for this type of thing. what do you think?

the choice of weaponry is really just 1/4 of the battle. skill, experience, environment, etc...can make a lot of difference.
 
There was a fellow from United Cutlery on the Decorative Swords forum over at SFI and he said that UC made their swords with stainless blades, etc., because that is where the market for such replicas is. They had apparently tried to sell replica swords with high carbon steel blades and all of their customers griped and groaned too loudly about their prized possessions rusting(!) and that they had gotten a bad name in the film sword community, IIRC. So they changed to stainless so that their customers would be happy. In a free market, that's how it works. My only problem is that they hold the license from the film company to make replica swords and NOBODY, and that means NOBODY, may make copies of the swords, not even the New Zealand smith who made the original. So, any copies of them that you see are unauthorized, if that should make any difference to you. Now, there are a lot of POS copies of UC's LOTR swords out there and they are exactly what you should expect for the money. I was at a re-enactment the other weekend and looked at a few of them. Even next to a UC blade, they looked like cheap PsOS. Actually, the UC blades didn't look too bad. Put next to my TEMPL sword, of course....
 
Originally posted by Uath
Come on Super chunk. I'm just playing. I'm a middle-aged teacher with a master's degree. Man, how can a bunch of professed knife nuts not understand someone who likes to train and practice with ancient type swords? I don't walk around town with them. I was just joking. I love European swords and am in touch with many reinactment groups that live for historical research as practical role-playing. Try one, it's a lot more chalenging than you might think. The sword is a very special object. It must be approached with respect. I still think the LOTR swords are crap. Yes, I've held them. What I'm worried about are the people tht think they ARE buying a real sword.
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"I'm a middle-aged teacher with a master's degree." Come again? If this is, indeed, the case, then I suggest that you spend some time improving your spelling and then let us in on the secret of what the discipline is in which you have you degree, but spelled properly. I also wonder about how much re-enacting you do since you seem unable to spell the word; "reinactment", indeed. Or, are your teaching, your degree, and your re-enacting all in the same category as your tale of walking around carrying a sword?
 
I find this thread to be silly but I will support Uath's assertion about a guy who always wore his sword around Seattle. He was based out of the Capitol Hill area, and you could see him walking and biking around town.

He wore the sword in a back harness strapped vertically along his spine. The sword wasn't very long, probably around 30-35 inches in length. It looked single handed, european style hilt and gaurd, and the hilt was worn behind his neck, the sword maybe ran to his tailbone. From the front you would likely not have known he was carrying a weapon.

The water cannon incident occured in '97, so I don't think we are talking about the same guy here.

~B
 
You know, I can't spell. In class, or writing normally, which I do, I would always use a dictionary or spell check. Is there something like that on this forum. It is embarrising (see, I just can't). Many times here, I've changed the wording of what I write because of my spelling.
Hey, I do walk around with swords, but only in my woods. S georgia is practically rain forest and my house is isolated. It's not silly, I use these swords. I have a dummy (4X4 post covered with those closed cell foam pads) I practice several times every week. Friends and I (Mostly in Jacksonville) have great fun sparring. We take it seriosly. Yes I'm in reinactments. Why would someone lie about being involved in historical reinactments? To tell the truth, they were kind of regimented with lots of standing around. Probably like real life battles would have been.
I have a dark ages sword, a bastard sword, a cut-and-thrust (1600's) and several short swords, including two cutlasses. My current favorite is a cold steel 1917 cutlass combined with a main gauche. The cold steel is a good sword, but I had to replace the end bolt, as the last one was just mild steel.
I made it perfectly clear that I was into European sword craft as a hobby. I just wanted people to know that when they bought LOTR swords, they wern't buying usable swords. Yes, they are crap. They are. Hit one against a practice dummy ten good times.
 
Originally posted by FullerH
My only problem is that they hold the license from the film company to make replica swords and NOBODY, and that means NOBODY, may make copies of the swords, not even the New Zealand smith who made the original. So, any copies of them that you see are unauthorized, if that should make any difference to you.
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I've seen a couple makers that make LOTR style swords but not direct copies of any on the movie. Christian Fletcher customizes Agnus Trim swords to look elven http://store.swordforum.com/angustrim/ms-2103cf.php and www.armsofvalour.com has some close functional replicas of LOTR weapons.

IIRC The Nobel Collection also makes replicas but they are also wall-hangers and more expensive than those by United.
 
I have no interest in copies of the movie swords. I wouldn't get them just because they were movie swords anyway. I do have a 2-handed scimitar that I use as a machette. It was supposedly tauted as a copy of a sword from the first Conan movie. I didn't know that when I bought it. Now there's a good sword Windlass (I think) anyway India. It's got a full tang and a nicely tempered carbon steel blade. I've cleared lots of land with it (and a small saw). It's been through plenty of abuse and still going strong.
 
Uath,

Are you in the SCA by any chance? Just curious...

As others have indicated, the LOTR stuff is strictly decorative, just like almost all of the fantasy knife market, it is not intended to be used. But then, you knew that already. There will always be crap knives and swords, because the lower price appeals to a larger market than quality products.

As for your cutlass/buckler, I don't have a katana, but I will take you on with a rapier and cloak ;). Now that form has style! :D

Greg
 
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