Lost package in international mail

Dillon Rudder

Dillon Rudder

Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Messages
6
Not your typical "how do I do this" question but part of the gig regardless...

I sent a knife from US to Sweden at the end of January and the customer has never received it, and the tracking indicates that it "never left the US". The USPS has told me repeatedly and by several different people/platforms that there is nothing they can do and once it's in the hands of customs, they aren't responsible. And apparently customs doesn't allow for tracking and will not take lost/stolen claims (what a racket).

So my question to you at this point is simple; what is the best way to resolve this with the customer? Let's assume at this point that all is lost (unless you have some insight I've overlooked)... it seems unfair to me to send another knife at no cost or to completely refund total payment. My best case scenario is to refund half cost/cost of labor but if I were the customer, I would probably feel like I was getting a raw deal. I'm not a big company and can't afford to return payments for something that wasn't my fault, but also want to be fair to this person.

Have any of you dealt with this? Thank you.
 
I don t know about customs , but if I paid for it I want to get it ? Customer has no fault from his side ? No shipping insurance ?
 
Ive had to deal with this with other things that I make and am actually currently dealing with a similar issue right now, you really have to take it case by case, for me and I think a lot of custom makers would agree that reputation is everything when it comes to selling knives or other handmade items, and every now and then we have to eat the cost of something for the sake of good customer service and reputation. I’m currently helping a customer that bought a ink pen that I made, it’s been two months and they haven’t received it yet so I finally told them the other day as soon as I have a free chance I would make them a new pen to send to them, luckily with the pen I only have about 6-8 dollars cost plus about 12 for shipping, I will eat 20 dollars in a odd case from time to time to have a good interaction with a current and hopefully future customer. Now knives can cost quite a bit more in materials depending on what materials you used for the knife in question. If it was me I would offer the customer either a full refund or a second knife at cost of non materials, so if you send blades out to heat treat or and other service that you have to pay for. If you have some more steel around and handle materials I wouldn’t charge them anything for those unless your talking very high end materials which is another matter. As crappy as it is for the maker it may generate future sales and ideally you should price your knives well above materials as the labor should be the most expensive component in the final price. May not be the answer you were hoping for and no one can tell you how you have to handle this, technically you could walk away and not be at fault but like I said I think reputation is everything for a knife maker.
 
Eat the cost, make a new knife, send with a better shipping company, request signature on receipt. All at no cost to the purchaser. Ask him kindly to spread the word of your service to his friends.

Remember in all things customer service related: WWAD (what would Amazon do?).
 
If you went to McDonald's and paid for a Big Mac, I'm not sure you'd be happy for the manager to come out and tell you that a worker ate it but here's half a refund.

I always have been worried shipping high dollar or even lower dollar stuff abroad. Heck, I'm worried whenever I have to mail stuff period. o_O

If it were me, I'd offer either a full refund or make another knife with the promise that if the customer ends up receiving two, they would send one back and I'd pay the shipping. It sucks but you don't want a bad rep.

One of my friends told me a while ago that that Best Buy gives awards to stores that have less than 2% "shrinkage" a.k a. theft. Unfortunately all the can do is build it into the prices they charge.
 
If I were the customer I would expect a full refund (not 50%) and if I didn’t get it I would report it to all the blade members...again, not the answer you were looking for but that’s the way I feel...

Regards/bg
 
This is where being upfront with customers is important. Once the item leaves the maker, it’s no longer legally his responsibility, as long as the buyer agreed to the shipping method. It’s the buyers responsibility to specify whether he wants the package insured. Make sure they buyer knows this. Insurance is only good if the item was lost in the country it was shipped from when using USPS or Canada post. Canada post won’t honour insurance purchased in Canada once the item leaves Canada. I had a $900.00 knife get lost overseas. Insurance was useless. The buyer gave me an address with a mistake in it. His issue, not mine. On the other hand I reversed two digits in a zip code. I would have made a new knife it I wasn’t able to correct that one. I actually have the heat treated blank I started for the replacement on my bench but the item was delivered in the end.

Legally isn’t the same as best practices in terms of marketing and reputation. If each party knows what their responsibility is from the get go, there are fewer hard feelings. I would probably offer to make a new knife if the buyer covered material costs or something similar.
 
Well, I'm just a hobbyist so it's probably easier for me to eat the cost.

But I would definitely refund it, I believe a custom knifemaker doesn't sell knives, he sells his name.
 
A few years ago we had a problem with an order. The end result was we had to take a $2,500 out of pocket loss. This was very difficult, but we survived.

Since that time, the customer who placed the order has purchased and/or referred more than 10X the cost to us.

Do not underestimate the value of customer service.

Chuck
 
If I were you, I'd eat the loss. A customer paid for a product, and deserves to have either their money, or the product. Best case would likely be to make him another knife and ship it insured this time. Hopefully you charged enough that it at least covers the cost of materials and consumables for both the 1st and 2nd knife, if not a little of your time as well.

I've shipped hundreds of packages USPS, and IIRC they've only lost two that I know of. In both cases, I sent out another package to the customer. One lost package showed up in my mailbox several months later as "return to sender: undeliverable" or something to that effect (I think the address might have smudged), and the second ultimately showed up to the customer (along with my second package) and he offered to send it back or pay the difference.

Now, I will say that international shipping (especially of knives/weapons) obviously has its own intrinsic headaches, especially with customs being involved on one end or the other, so it is important that both parties are aware of potential "what if" scenarios, and any worst case problems/solutions should be discussed and agreed to before hand.
 
Yes replace or refund at the customers option. Had a similar deal like Chuck mentioned. Guy bought his second knife from me. It was delivered to his front porch and stolen from there. I replaced the knife and he's since ordered 36 more knives. Eating it does indeed payoff sometimes.

If the package never left the US (according to the tracking) then its not in customs. Customs is in Sweden not here. Ya might want to get a clarification on that.
 
I would make him a new knife, but tell him it might be a few weeks. Then I’d make sure to adjust my shipping policy to protect myself against future circumstances. For instance:

“When shipping outside of the US, buyer must chose their carrier or shipping method. I can only be responsible for the knife while it is in my country and in the hands of a shipping company the I have dealt with and know. I have no problem adding special shipping options(at buyers expense) that are available. For instance International Express EMS shipping with tracking.”
 
Dillon Rudder said:
Not your typical "how do I do this" question but part of the gig regardless...

I sent a knife from US to Sweden at the end of January and the customer has never received it, and the tracking indicates that it "never left the US". The USPS has told me repeatedly and by several different people/platforms that there is nothing they can do and once it's in the hands of customs, they aren't responsible. And apparently customs doesn't allow for tracking and will not take lost/stolen claims (what a racket).

So my question to you at this point is simple; what is the best way to resolve this with the customer? Let's assume at this point that all is lost (unless you have some insight I've overlooked)... it seems unfair to me to send another knife at no cost or to completely refund total payment. My best case scenario is to refund half cost/cost of labor but if I were the customer, I would probably feel like I was getting a raw deal. I'm not a big company and can't afford to return payments for something that wasn't my fault, but also want to be fair to this person.

Have any of you dealt with this? Thank you.
Click to expand...

Hi Dillon, I'm confused.

The PO tracking says it never left the US but you say that it's stuck in customs?
To my knowledge packages do not go through US customs leaving the US, only entering. So is it stuck in customs in the US or Sweden?

Which USPS service did you use to ship the package?

I ask this because I have had packages disappear for long periods only to re-appear later. You could still have a good resolution to this. Perhaps you should give a full 90 days before you begin remaking the knife.

I hope you have some good luck.

Steven
 
I have mailed knives to Finland and you can track them by the Customs Declaration Number, so it seems odd that where the package got to cannot be determined? John
 
Willie71 said:
This is where being upfront with customers is important. Once the item leaves the maker, it’s no longer legally his responsibility, as long as the buyer agreed to the shipping method. It’s the buyers responsibility to specify whether he wants the package insured. Make sure they buyer knows this. Insurance is only good if the item was lost in the country it was shipped from when using USPS or Canada post. Canada post won’t honour insurance purchased in Canada once the item leaves Canada. I had a $900.00 knife get lost overseas. Insurance was useless. The buyer gave me an address with a mistake in it. His issue, not mine. On the other hand I reversed two digits in a zip code. I would have made a new knife it I wasn’t able to correct that one. I actually have the heat treated blank I started for the replacement on my bench but the item was delivered in the end.

Legally isn’t the same as best practices in terms of marketing and reputation. If each party knows what their responsibility is from the get go, there are fewer hard feelings. I would probably offer to make a new knife if the buyer covered material costs or something similar.
Click to expand...
I couldn't disagree more... lol.


USPS and Canada Post will honour insurance claims if they meet the criteria, which they hardly ever meet. It is like pulling teeth but they do occasionally pay up. International/overseas packages are another story. I would use UPS or Fedex next time.

This "once it leaves the maker's hands, it isn't his responsibility" is wrong. If you used Paypal, they would agree, if the buyer made a claim. It is YOUR responsibility to insure the shipping. It doesn't belong to the buyer until it is in their hands.... I don't care if it gets stolen off their porch... it should have been sent with a signature requirement. Even if you had a disclaimer on your website that stated "the buyer accepts all responsibility once it leaves your hands", you wouldn't have a leg to stand on, legally. Say goodbye to your reputation if you ever stick it to the customer like that. Unless they just sit there and take it.

If you plan on selling any more knives, eat the cost and make a new knife or give a full refund. It is the right thing to do.
 
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i had a few customer's a few years ago in New Zealand and czechoslovakia
used DHL global . shipping was very expensive but both got their knives within a week.
i tell customers that shipping outside the US is on their dime. if they want USPS i will not guarantee it to arrive !!
ive shipped literally hundreds of items over seas including Registered mail
when the Registered mail went missing i asked the postal inspector if he could do a
he said once it leaves the US no...
i figure since it is a one of a kind item ,a little more expensive shipping should be used
with DHL i could track the package the whole way and see when he signed for it..
 
Rick Marchand said:
I couldn't disagree more... lol.


USPS and Canada Post will honour insurance claims if they meet the criteria, which they hardly ever meet. It is like pulling teeth but they do occasionally pay up. International/overseas packages are another story. I would use UPS or Fedex next time.

This "once it leaves the maker's hands, it isn't his responsibility" is wrong. If you used Paypal, they would agree, if the buyer made a claim. It is YOUR responsibility to insure the shipping. It doesn't belong to the buyer until it is in their hands.... I don't care if it gets stolen off their porch... it should have been sent with a signature requirement. Even if you had a disclaimer on your website that stated "the buyer accepts all responsibility once it leaves your hands", you wouldn't have a leg to stand on, legally. Say goodbye to your reputation if you ever stick it to the customer like that. Unless they just sit there and take it.

If you plan on selling any more knives, eat the cost and make a new knife or give a full refund. It is the right thing to do.
Click to expand...

So someone tells me to send the knife the cheapest way possible, no insurance, no tracking. I’m supposed to be responsible if it doesn’t arrive? If a buyer chooses to not insure the package to save money, I’m responsible if it gets lost? If the buyer specified no signature required, that’s my responsibility if it gets stolen when he leaves it on the porch? I can’t imagine how that could be the seller’s responsibility from a legal standpoint.

What’s legally sound, and what is good business practise are two different things. I’ve been dinged a few times with items lost in shipping when being sent to me, and I’ve had no legal recourse.of course, I’ve never bought from those vendors again.
 
Do you really want to do business with an international buyer who requests you send an expensive knife the cheapest way possible?...

I see a lot of European sellers that require $55 to ship internationally...they are protecting themselves and these are guys I would do business with..

Just saying...

Cheers/bg
 
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