Lost package in international mail

I now only ship with Fedex. It costs me more than many other forwarders, but in 3 days I'm sure the knife is delivered to the other side of the ocean. I do not charge the shipment, it is at my expense but I send as I say, the only request I make is related to the possible insurance of the package. In this specific case I think that if the knife did not leave the United States you have to redo the knife or repay the money. Reputation is worth a lot more!
 
Bmgillum said:
Do you really want to do business with an international buyer who requests you send an expensive knife the cheapest way possible?...

I see a lot of European sellers that require $55 to ship internationally...they are protecting themselves and these are guys I would do business with..

Just saying...

Cheers/bg
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No, that’s my point. The seller can’t be responsible for bad decisions from a customer trying to save a few dollars. People need to be upfront regarding these issues.

I got a PM on this issue, and need to clarify that my stance is regarding international sales, not local or domestic. It’s pretty standard to have disclaimers regarding the buyer knowing their own laws and customs.
 
Somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but the shipper/seller buys the box, tapes it up, puts the label on and drops it in the mail, correct? Is it not also the shipper that makes (and hopefully receives payment for) any insurance claims? I understand the postal service (who ships millions of parcels per day) may lose a very small percentage of items shipped, but I think that if I pay for something, I should receive something.

Now, legally, I may not be obligated to pay for the lost package, (though, as Rick mentioned, PayPal will generally side with the buyer anyway), but
as a maker/seller, I have to put myself in the other person’s shoes. Have I shipped packages without insuring to full value before? Sure, but that was a gamble I took. The buyer shouldn’t be the one gambling the cost of the knife. What if, wanting to be cheap, I send a $300 knife in a paper envelope with no tape? Is it the buyer’s fault when the package arrives with nothing in it? Or if it gets lost because the address got smudged, or I printed a crappy label on a clapped out inkjet that’s 25 years old?

Personally, I try to do everything I can to make my packages as “deliverable” as possible. Confirm addresses/zip codes, double and triple wrap, tape items inside the box, and tape all seams of said box, put clear tape over printed labels to protect from smudging/damage, etc....
since I’ve started doing this, all packages are delivered as shipped . Tape is cheap. Priority Usps boxes are free. I can order mass quantity of any size I want and have them delivered to my door, free. I pad the boxes with junk mail/ad papers when necessary. Also free.

And if I can’t afford a loss, I pay the extra $15 or $20 for insurance. (And yes, these kinds of things are factored into the cost of the product to begin with.)

As far as I’m concerned, that’s just all part of doing (and being able to continue doing) business. YMMV.
 
mknife said:
I now only ship with Fedex. It costs me more than many other forwarders, but in 3 days I'm sure the knife is delivered to the other side of the ocean. I do not charge the shipment, it is at my expense but I send as I say, the only request I make is related to the possible insurance of the package. In this specific case I think that if the knife did not leave the United States you have to redo the knife or repay the money. Reputation is worth a lot more!
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I’ll have to make note of this. I’ve not been comfortable with knives changing from Canada Post, who is pretty reliable, to some other countries’ postal system, where the pckage is no longer trackable or insured.
 
You can track Canada Post Priority Worldwide, Xpresspost Int'l and Int'l Tracked Packet as long as your destination is on the list they provide on the site. Once it has landed in the destination Country, you have to use that country's postal tracking site for a more detailed report. I do it all the time. Japan, Australia, USA, Spain, France, Thailand... However, Canada Post will only insure up to $100 for overseas shipments.

I stopped insuring past $300 unless it is a knife the customer has returned for sharpening/refurbishment. I consider it MY responsibility to insure MY blades make it to the customer. I take a calculated risk by insuring for less but I know how hard it is to have a successful claim and I know that I have saved enough money to eat the price of an occasional mishap. Canada Post ships via Fedex for international shipments, now. If it is an extremely expensive piece, I use Fedex or UPS directly.

The only problems I have ever had was with Germany.... 0 for 2 packages.
 
knife to a gunfight said:
Somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but the shipper/seller buys the box, tapes it up, puts the label on and drops it in the mail, correct? Is it not also the shipper that makes (and hopefully receives payment for) any insurance claims? I understand the postal service (who ships millions of parcels per day) may lose a very small percentage of items shipped, but I think that if I pay for something, I should receive something.

Now, legally, I may not be obligated to pay for the lost package, (though, as Rick mentioned, PayPal will generally side with the buyer anyway), but
as a maker/seller, I have to put myself in the other person’s shoes. Have I shipped packages without insuring to full value before? Sure, but that was a gamble I took. The buyer shouldn’t be the one gambling the cost of the knife. What if, wanting to be cheap, I send a $300 knife in a paper envelope with no tape? Is it the buyer’s fault when the package arrives with nothing in it? Or if it gets lost because the address got smudged, or I printed a crappy label on a clapped out inkjet that’s 25 years old?

Personally, I try to do everything I can to make my packages as “deliverable” as possible. Confirm addresses/zip codes, double and triple wrap, tape items inside the box, and tape all seams of said box, put clear tape over printed labels to protect from smudging/damage, etc....
since I’ve started doing this, all packages are delivered as shipped . Tape is cheap. Priority Usps boxes are free. I can order mass quantity of any size I want and have them delivered to my door, free. I pad the boxes with junk mail/ad papers when necessary. Also free.

And if I can’t afford a loss, I pay the extra $15 or $20 for insurance. (And yes, these kinds of things are factored into the cost of the product to begin with.)

As far as I’m concerned, that’s just all part of doing (and being able to continue doing) business. YMMV.
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If the seller cheaps out, it’s the seller’s responsibility. If the seller packages the item improperly, that’s the seller’s responsibility. If the customer refuses insurance/tracking to save money, or chooses a shipper the seller isnt familiar with or comfortable with, that’s the buyer’s responsibility. If the buyer orders a knife that is illegal in their country, and it’s confiscated at the border, that’s the buyer’s responsibility.

Again, what is legal and what is good business practices are two different things.
 
One time a customer wanted it shipped fed ex with signature confirmation to Australia and wanted to include free shipping.
The cost was $160

I laughed and told him no.
 
Willie71 said:
If the seller cheaps out, it’s the seller’s responsibility. If the seller packages the item improperly, that’s the seller’s responsibility. If the customer refuses insurance/tracking to save money, or chooses a shipper the seller isnt familiar with or comfortable with, that’s the buyer’s responsibility. If the buyer orders a knife that is illegal in their country, and it’s confiscated at the border, that’s the buyer’s responsibility.

Again, what is legal and what is good business practices are two different things.
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I don't know Canadian law but here in the States it doesn't matter who cheeps out if they paid with a CC or paypal all they have to say is "I did not get it" and they will get their money back. That is why I build my shipping into price to cover my self. If shipping over seas I will let them know the extra cost to ship my way or I won't ship, and if over a certain dollar amount it will go signature conformation.
This insures I have done everything possible to mitigate a loss.
 
I don't think you'd have a leg to stand on, Warren. If I am a knifemaker and I ship a switchblade to a customer in the UK and he doesn't receive the package because it gets confiscated at the border, the customer is NOT responsible.... I am. It is MY responsibility to perform due-diligence on looking up the laws of the country I am shipping to. How can you not see it? YOU bought and paid for the shipping. YOU agreed to not insure or ship through an unknown courier. Unless the buyer makes the arrangements themselves, they CANNOT and HAVE NO RIGHT to make a claim. It is ALL YOU, brother. You might want to do a quick internet search.

edit to add...
Disclaimers are not binding, waivers are not binding.

I can make everyone who walks into my shop sign a release waiver at the door. Do you think it'll hold up in court if they get a hot piece of steel in the eye?
 
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Rick Marchand said:
I don't think you'd have a leg to stand on, Warren. If I am a knifemaker and I ship a switchblade to a customer in the UK and he doesn't receive the package because it gets confiscated at the border, the customer is NOT responsible.... I am. It is MY responsibility to perform due-diligence on looking up the laws of the country I am shipping to. How can you not see it? YOU bought and paid for the shipping. YOU agreed to not insure or ship through an unknown courier. Unless the buyer makes the arrangements themselves, they CANNOT and HAVE NO RIGHT to make a claim. It is ALL YOU, brother. You might want to do a quick internet search.

edit to add...
Disclaimers are not binding, waivers are not binding.

I can make everyone who walks into my shop sign a release waiver at the door. Do you think it'll hold up in court if they get a hot piece of steel in the eye?
Click to expand...


Again, I’m not talking about what i do in my business. As a buyer, I was on the losing side of this several times.

My information comes from talking with my lawyers regarding my house build. If you packaged the item correctly, and have proof of shipping, the seller isn’t held responsible. I had to swallow multithousand dollar items damaged in transit or lost in shipping. My lawyers said if the vendor was not negligent up to it leaving their possession, they were not responsible for it any longer. I might have been fed a bunch of BS, I’ll concede. The lawyers did not include those losses in my lawsuit.

eBay, PayPal, and Amazon have changed the dialogue. They had to overcome the fear of being ripped off, so they have policies that favour their client, the buyer’s. Our laws are very pro business, anti consumer though. As a home owner, it’s amazing how little power you have with a fraudulent home builder. There are layers of protection for incorporated or limited liability companies.
 
I built two houses of my own... I was responsible for setting up freight on most materials and the stuff that was delivered by the companies, themselves was their responsibility to ensure it reached me safely. I turned away 1200 sq feet of finished hardwood flooring because it was shipped across a province on an open bed without a tarp or wrap. If I would have signed for it and removed it from the bed, it would have been my problem. I also bought an entire kitchen layout from IKEA. They used a third party shipper and a few of the boxes were damaged. I signed off on the good ones and refused the others. The shipper didn't seem to care and IKEA sent replacements.

I think you came away from your experience with bad info, man.
 
SBuzek said:
I don't know Canadian law but here in the States it doesn't matter who cheeps out if they paid with a CC or paypal all they have to say is "I did not get it" and they will get their money back. That is why I build my shipping into price to cover my self. If shipping over seas I will let them know the extra cost to ship my way or I won't ship, and if over a certain dollar amount it will go signature conformation.
This insures I have done everything possible to mitigate a loss.
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This is very true for credit card purchases in the USA. Even with signature confirmation, it's probably a 50-50 chance that if I bought something and tell my credit card company the box was empty when I received it, then they would refund my purchase based on my lengthy good history as a cardholder. Kind of scary when you're on the other side as a seller.
 
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