Lyme Disease

I watched, "Under Our Skin" tonight on Netflix. I would highly, highly recommend everyone who goes woods bumming watch it.
 
I don't have a link, but about 10 years ago a guy in central Ontario died of malaria. That shouldn't be possible, but even though the guy had classic symptoms, the docs said, 'It can't be" nothing is ever impossible, especially with diseases. One of the upsides to our over-medicated culture, you push hard enough, you'll get what you want. Educate yourself, educate your doctor, and stay safe out their friends!
 
It sounds like a documentary, that will scare me from venturing outside again :D

Nevertheless ill try to watch it tonight.
 
I had Lyme disease, but I was fortunate because it was mild and with antibiotics it was completely eradicated.
Details: I noticed the rash about 2 weeks after I was bitten (never saw the tick though), and went to the doctor. The doctor didn't think it was Lyme, though I was convinced it was, he ran a test that came back "marginal", and wouldn't start me on antibiotics. I went back 2-3 weeks later because the rash was getting worse, different doctor then agreed it was Lyme, ran another test that came back positive, and put me on antibiotics. I remember a few things from reading about Lyme at the time: 1) When you get achy, headaches, fevers, etc, you need to see the doctor immediately, 2) You have a good-sized window after the bite in which Lyme disease is very treatable, 3) The symptoms can be highly varied, often two cases have completely different symptoms, so it can be hard to diagnose, 4) Tests for Lyme might not show positive until over a month. But I am not a physician so I can't be sure about these things.

And, echoing the points made by others in this thread: even if your doctor is skeptical, push hard. At my first visit to my doctor I told him my rash looked just like the pictures I saw on the internet, he replied "You can't always believe the internet, you know." So on my second visit I came with a folder full of printouts from internet sites on Lyme disease -- that visit the doctor I saw agreed with me. In your case, your had a tick, you have the rash, it seems likely you have Lyme. My advice: print some pictures, be assertive, and if you're uncomfortable with your doctor's response, see another.

Here's some links for you, good luck:
http://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/lyme-disease-directory
http://arthritis.webmd.com/slideshow-lyme-disease
 
I'll do my best to echo what others have already said in the hopes of emphasizing how serious Lyme can be...

My father contacted it last year though it went undiagnosed for some time as he (and his regular doctor) did not recognize the joint pain caused by the disease as distinct from the tendonitis he has been struggling with for years. He's a spry, very active man who enjoys cycling and kayaking and hiking with me, and about May of last year when I went to visit him I saw him hunched over, hobbling, leaning on a cane, wincing in pain with every step he took. Fluid had begun to build up in his knees that he had to have drained on about a bi-weekly basis. Treatment involved installing a catheter in his arm and pumping antibiotics 2 or 3 times daily into his arm for around a month in addition to painkillers and antibitics taken orally. He was out of work for at least three weeks. As much as I'll curse (what I believe to be) the abusive and manipulative practices of health insurance companies, this time around I think he got his money's worth -- it's a good thing those premiums were paid up.

Take this quite seriously, go to the doctor immediately, get tested and if you're negative go somewhere else and get re-rested. The sooner you are started on the horse-pills they prescribe you, the less of a chance that it will end up disabling you temporarily (or permanently) and the lower your bills will be. GOOD LUCK!

Caught earlier it might not have been so severe
 
Well, here is the update.

Had joint, muscle aches and same rash over the weekend. Went to the doctor this morning and while he was a bit skeptical since it was most likely a wood tick, he prescribed me a course of antibiotics(doxicycline). Will start treatment today and check back in several weeks.

Thanks for all the replies, they were helpful.
 
Duzzy said:
I watched, "Under Our Skin" tonight on Netflix. I would highly, highly recommend everyone who goes woods bumming watch it.
Click to expand...

Do this. The wife and I watched it a few nights ago, and I had no idea that lyme was as serious as it is. I will definitely be more careful and vigilant after watching that.
 
minnesotashooter said:
Well, here is the update.

Had joint, muscle aches and same rash over the weekend. Went to the doctor this morning and while he was a bit skeptical since it was most likely a wood tick, he prescribed me a course of antibiotics(doxicycline). Will start treatment today and check back in several weeks.

Thanks for all the replies, they were helpful.
Click to expand...

Doxicycline is one of the preferred oral antibiotic for the treatment of Lyme; Azythromycin is another. Doxicycline is one of the few wide-spectrum antibiotics that can cross the Blood-Brain Barrier, which makes it excellent to treat/prevent Lyme disease's neurological symptoms. It does makes your skin sensitive to sunlight/sunburn, so be careful when going outside. In most cases, when treated early enough, a month or two of doxicycline is all you'll need and a month's worth is less than $10. Doxicycline is used on the treatment of Adult Acne, and is prescribed on a month-to-month basis going up to 2 years with no serious side effects. My point is, if the doctor tells you can only take doxicycline for 15 days or so because it can have serious side effects, discus it further. The length of the early treatment of Lyme is one of the many contention issues regarding Lyme treatment.

Let me say that I'm not a medical doctor; I'm just a Lyme patient who after years of mis-diagnosis had the blessing of finding other patients and doctors who helped me and my children, and educated me on the issue.
 
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Went to my doctor in 2009 after being bit by a tick four days earlier.

Doctor put me on antibiotics for two weeks while the blood tests came back.

Tests came back negative. Doctor stated if medication is given before symptoms appear then you will be ok.

My $.02 of advice is go see your doctor and get treated before symptoms appear.
 
heresay1 said:
Went to my doctor in 2009 after being bit by a tick four days earlier.

Doctor put me on antibiotics for two weeks while the blood tests came back.

Tests came back negative. Doctor stated if medication is given before symptoms appear then you will be ok.

My $.02 of advice is go see your doctor and get treated before symptoms appear.
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The doctor I saw said that preventative antibiotics are only called for when:

1. The tick has been attached for longer than 72 hours and/or is engorged from feeding
2. The tick is known to be a deer tick
3. The bite occurred in a location in the country where lymes is wide-spread; that is, Minnesota, Wisconsin or the eastern seaboard.

If all of those conditions are not present, then the medical establishment isn't going to want to give antibiotics preventatively. I'm not saying they're right or wrong, I'm just saying that this is how they see it.

The biggest problem is convincing them that you got bit by a deer tick. Most people don't know the difference. I know I don't.
 
minnesotashooter said:
Well, here is the update.

Had joint, muscle aches and same rash over the weekend. Went to the doctor this morning and while he was a bit skeptical since it was most likely a wood tick, he prescribed me a course of antibiotics(doxicycline). Will start treatment today and check back in several weeks.

Thanks for all the replies, they were helpful.
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I live in one of the most Lyme infested areas in the country. I've been exposed to it, but the test came out as a "negative" as my exposure was so minimal. But my dog, dad, and a friend of mine weren't as lucky.

My dad got 3 tests before one showed up positive. Get checked again if you suspect it after a negative result.

Being in Minnesota I would imagine the doctors would be less likely to assume its Lyme. Not to mention it was a big tick which usually don't carry Lyme. Deer ticks are the usual carrier (which are the size of a pin head). But if you seriously suspect it, don't quit with the doctors. A friend of mine has it so bad (and went untreated for so long) that she now has permanent muscular problems.
 
I had Lyme. I had the bull's eye rash. I never got too sick. I think I only missed one day of work. My knees and calves ached. I was on antibiotics for three months. Tested positive for Lyme three times. I was very proactive with my DR. and made sure he listened to me. I went for four blood tests. The last one was clear. My neighbor had Lyme although he did not know it. He kept getting sick for years. He finally found a DR. who treated him with an intravenous iv. He is fine now.
 
jaymeister99 said:
Being in Minnesota I would imagine the doctors would be less likely to assume its Lyme. Not to mention it was a big tick which usually don't carry Lyme. Deer ticks are the usual carrier (which are the size of a pin head). But if you seriously suspect it, don't quit with the doctors. A friend of mine has it so bad (and went untreated for so long) that she now has permanent muscular problems.
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The pinhead sized ticks are the young ticks. Older, mature ticks, are larger. Either way, after they've started to feed, they become engorged and then they're also bigger.

The reason why everyone thinks a deer tick is pinhead sized is because those are the sneaky ones that people don't find until it's too late.

deer_tick_identification.jpg


ETA: For tick identification, this is a pretty good site.
 
minnesotashooter said:
Well, here is the update.

Had joint, muscle aches and same rash over the weekend. Went to the doctor this morning and while he was a bit skeptical since it was most likely a wood tick, he prescribed me a course of antibiotics(doxicycline). Will start treatment today and check back in several weeks.

Thanks for all the replies, they were helpful.
Click to expand...

It was May of last year that I was prescribed that same antibiotic, and only after I had persisted. Two week term. Avoid the sun.
I'm going to get another blood test done to verify that I am still clean.

Thanks for bringing this up.
 
Deer ticks that are engorged for a while will get bigger. Dog ticks are always bigger.

The problem becomes after they have been engorged for a while, then they become a little more difficult to distinguish.
 
bulgron said:
ETA: For tick identification, this is a pretty good site.
Click to expand...

Wow, great site. Didn't realize how little I knew about deer ticks!

I happened to see this on Wikipedia, another reason to support hunting:
"When the deer population was reduced by 74% at a 248-acre (100 ha) study site in Bridgeport, Connecticut, for example, the number of nymphal ticks collected at the site decreased by 92%.[2] The relationship between deer abundance, tick abundance, and human cases of Lyme disease was well documented in the Mumford Cove Community in Groton, Connecticut, from 1996 to 2004. The deer population in Mumford Cove was reduced from about 77 deer per square mile to about 10 deer per square mile (4 deer per square kilometer) after 2 years of controlled hunting. After the initial reduction the deer population was maintained at low levels. Reducing deer densities to 10 deer per square mile (4 deer per square kilometer) was adequate to reduce by more than 90% the risk of humans contracting Lyme disease in Mumford Cove."
 
A dog tick can cause a reaction that will be red like the bullseye rash and it will sometimes heal center out so it looks bullseye.
 
If you remove a tick be sure to save it and bring it to your doctor. This is a BIG help!
 
These are notes I have compiled from a Veterinary Entomology class, and summarized as a quick overview on our favorite parasitic arachnid:

Ticking you off:

By Joe.

some biology
Ticks have no distinct head
-adults and nymphs have 4 pairs of legs, larvae have 3.

some have a plate like scutum (the hard thing on the back)
Family: Ixodidae. In males, the entire dorsum may be covered, females and nymphs, only the anterior part of the dorsum is covered. (that means the females and nymphs don't have that hard plate covering their back entirely, their ass is hanging out.)

Ixodidae are your hard ticks-attach for extended periods of time, sometimes days for a single engorgement. ONLY the female becomes tremendously distended by engorgement (she becomes one big fatty)
Argasidae are the soft ticks- live in lairs, dens, burrows, Not as important as vectors of disease as the hard ticks. (They think is because of the sedentary nature of the soft ticks)

Ticks have 4 stages in their life cycle:
eggs, deposited on the ground. Its the only stage that isn't able to over winter. The females can lay anywhere from 100-18,000
Larvae-6 legged
Nymphs-8 legs
Adults- 8 legs


tidbits about species, illnesses they can transfer:
Three host ticks:
Dermacentor andersoni- Rocky mountain wood tick-
vector of Rocky mountain spotted fever (RMSF) (actually rickettsia) and Colorado tick fever (virus)
-western US and Canada in areas where suitable host is found-ie. small mammals for larvae and nymphs, larger hosts for adults
-all stages feed on intermediate-sized hosts such as porcupines and jack rabbits
-nymphs are noticed in the spring time
-unfed can live long time
larvae 317 days
nymphs ca. 1yr
adults 413 days

RMSF-
Rocky mountain tick research lab was established in Hamilton, Montana to study the disease.
H.T. Ricketts was assigned to the lab (remember rickettsia?)
he discovered an unnamed bacteria in 1911
he died of the disease in Montana


Dermacentor variablis
AMERICAN DOG TICK
East of the 100th meridian
3 host tick.........Larvae prefers small mammals, adults prefer dogs, but will feed on livestock and humans

RMSF- vaccine started in the west during 30's
severe reactions were common including hearing loss.
1176 cases in the us in 1980 (709 South Atlantic states, 321 in NC)
365 Cases in 1998 ...148 in South Atlantic states, 71 in NC)
The pathogen!: Rickettsia rickettsi
Invades and multiplies within cells that line small blood vessels, causes damage to cell nucleus. Causes blood to leak through tiny holes in vessel walls to adjacent tissues, causes the rash. Rash occurs in 20% of cases.
Rash appears within first week. Starts and the wrists and ankles, then it expands to the trunk.
Incubation period 2-14 days.
Can be fatal: 11.7% in 30-39 year old age class
-fatalities occur when there is lack of known tick exposure, no rash, and gastrointestinal involvement.

THE BAD GUYS:
Vectors of RMSF
Dermacentor andersoni Rky. Mt wood Tick
Dermacentor variablis (Am dog tick)
Amblyomma americanum (Lone star tick)
Haemaphysalis leporispalustris (rabbit tick)
-Rhipecephalus sanguines (Brown dog tick)


ok- THE NO MUMBO JUMBO on RKSF

Infection greatly reduced if the feeding tick is removed within 10 hrs of attaching

-many individuals become infected by de-ticking their dogs (dogs can become infected)
-crushing the ticks with their fingers and pathogen enters through abraded skin.

-need for early diagnosis and treatment is important

of 94 patients infected in NC
-death rates were significantly lower
- when treated within five days of onset of illness versus those that received delayed treatment





Ehrlichioses:
Recognized in '86

2 forms: human monocytic ehrlichiosis, and human granulocytic ehrlichiosis-clinically almost indistinguishable.

aggregates in white blood cells.
Clinical characterization:
-generally a mild disease.
-fever, headache, myalgia, thrombocytopenia, leukopenia, and elevated liver enzyme levels.
-A rash occurs in 1/3 of patients

Severe cases
adult respiratory distress syndrome, renal failure, neurology disorders, intravascular coagulation (disseminated)
- 5% for HME, 10% for HGE
some report less than 5% for these diseases.

Diagnosis
-clinical indications
-lab confirmation by indirect amino assay.
treatment:
good ol' tetracycline

Lone Star tick
Amblyomma americanum
vector OF HME
three host tick; larvae and nymphs-indiscriminant feeders, adults readily feed on deer, livestock, humans.
-severe reaction to feeding

Black legged tick
Ixodes scapularis
3 host tick- 2 year lifecycle

importance:
Ehrlichioses isn't well recognized
non-specific symptoms may interfere with a timely diagnosis
could be life threatening
there is risk for blood transfusion transmission
there is no ehrlichiosis surveillance program
incidence rates haven't really been determined
many states lack lab equipment for proper testing.



A tick's thermal minimum is around 50F. Any warmer than that, and you may want to check yourself.
Black Legged Ticks (deer ticks) have no white markings, they can carry Lymes disease.
deer_tick_identification.jpg





dog-vs-deer-ticks.jpg




Brown Dog Ticks
A. Engorged Female

D. Larvae

B. Female

Black-Legged Ticks (Deer Ticks)
E. Nymphs

C. Male

F. Males

G. Females

H. Engorged Female


Source: http://www.health.state.ri.us/disease/communicable/lyme/facts.htm
 
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