Lynn Griffith Patrolman

Cliff, I think you are misrepresenting Sean's comments quite a bit, but that is for another thread. The argument was over the difference between a knife being tested by the maker a certain way before it ships and by being tested (abused) the same way by the buyer. In the maker's testing, this is insuring a strong knife by doing things that a knife never should have done to it for any reasons. In the other case it is sheer abuse for no real reason. Plus, I have three of his knives, soon to be four, and I have EVERY confidence in his knives. Talk is one thing, and output is another, Cliff. Anyway....


As far as the Micarta/G-10 issue, at the Badger show Koval was selling 2 ft. long pieces of blue G-10 for $5 a pop. At those prices it should be cheaper than the stock options. Also, I have worked canvas, linen, and paper Micarta and there is no discernible difference, ESPECIALLY if using power tools. A belt grinder will eat Micarta with no problem, regardless of its pedigree. Maroon and red Micarta is slightly more expensive, but why does a few bucks extra cost at the supply house translate into a $15 difference to the buyer? Maroon micarta works exactly like black, which is exactly like gold, etc. There is no more than $5 difference, last time I checked, between the cheapest colors and the most expensive ones, and they all are easy to work with. Paper Micarta is probably the toughest to work with, IMHO. The only reason canvas Micarta is harder to work than Linen is because you don't have the grain lines to guide your work. LInen Micarta is linen Micarta, regardless of color, and they all work, polish, grind, etc the exact same. In fact linen Micarta is arguably the easiest material to use because the grain pattern which develops serves as a guide for handle symmetry. There is an added cost from the supply house for some colors, but this difference in price is inaccurately translated in Lynn's pricing. FWIW, I bought scales of every color of Micarta for a buck at the Badger show!

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Originally posted by Chiro75:
Man, you guys are brutal!
Click to expand...
Chrio,
Do you think to call things with their names means to be brutal?
I can appreciate the higher price of custom (handmade) knife because of:
  • exquisite design or
  • unusual technical solutions, sometimes unprofitable in the mass production or
  • uncommon materials, also sometimes unprofitable in the mass production or
  • excellent workmanship when each part is individually finished and matched to anthers or
  • all these features together
What can you obtain for almost $300 buying Patrolman? Very simple (to do not say primitive) and well known in each kitchen design, no one interesting technical solution, common materials and poor workmanship. So poor that it is clearly visible even at pictures.
This is the only reason why I compared this knife with production ones.
In my honest opinion it is not simple overpricing. It is the lack of even minimal shame...
 
Here is the Perkins thread :

http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/003478.html

and here is the Griffith one :

http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum32/HTML/001991.html

What people make of this of course will differ as the various threads on reviews pretty much constantly show. There is a huge variance in what people expect of makers just as there is a huge difference from person to person about what a reasonable level of performance should be.

My take on it is simple, Lynn has a reasonable attitude, Perkins does not, for reasons I have stated above and in those two threads. As for your Perkins blades performing well for you, excellent. However the point remains that I have no guarantee than mine would. I like the looks of them though.

As for the Micarta and G10 issues, thanks for the information.

Price is of course also highly influenced by demand, and Lynn is selling a lot of blades now. As for worth, look at Bladerigger. If Lynn's price seem unreasonable I would like to know what the take on those blades are.

-Cliff
 
Cliff-"..if the customer had a problem with the serration pattern or anything else that it would have been taken care of."

You see a pattern to those serrations?

troy
 
I'll be the first to admit, I don't understand this attraction to "Tactical" knives, most of then just look unfinished to me, and I don't care what you call or what color the "plastic" handles are.
tongue.gif

I'm amazed anyone can rationalize paying that kind of money for a knife that is as plain as a mud fence. For less than $285, I got a hand forged Damascus blade, stag handle, turquoise spacers, brass guard and Buffalo horn end cap, with file work (bye the way doesn't the file work belong on the spine of the blade?) All done to my drawings, and finished beautifully. http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=254126&a=1889225&p=19815395
If I needed a knife to use and abuse a $100 production knife would suit me fine.


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"Will work 4 Knives!"
Homepage: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=254126
 
Like the designs or not, Lynn has a following, and for whatever reason, he has plenty of folks lined up to pay top dollar for his stuff. He also has his own forum that is a stroke-fest of egotistical mania, but regardless of all that, Lynn makes knives that are nice (with the exceptions of those serrations) and he charges what people will pay for them!
I would call that smart marketing, really. He has a niche, he makes knives for that niche, and the people who buy the knives seem pretty happy with the results. Lynn also seems to be a pretty honest businessman and he stands behind his work, so kudos there, too. I think that maybe his buyers may be a little uninformed, and the pricing is off quite a bit, but that's why I'm not a customer! All makers have knives that make you do a double take...like scale-less, small neck knives that aren't even skelotonized for over $200! If you want to pay for it, though, then those guys are smart for making it, IMHO.

------------------
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http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/frames.html
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First , I don't own a "Patrolman" . I felt it was a little small . So while talking with Lynn he suggested he blow it up . Making it 9.25 OAL with 3/16".Just what I was looking for . Try that with your factory knife . The handle scales are carbonfiber , from a guy at McDonnell Douglas used for gun turrents .Very limited supply . Very cool looking. Bead blasted blade , haven't seen a hand rubbed finished blade, yet . (I do have one on order though).

I have three of Lynn's knives with four more on order . I am not rich , my money comes hard ,so if I felt it were not worth it I would look else where .

I also know if I were not happy with a knife he would gave me a full refund or fix what I did not like. (That goes for anybody)

I also believe the owner of the "Patrolman" , that you find fault with, was happy with what he received . That eye of the beholder thing .
 
To add to that Lynn is a great guy to do business with . A joy to talk to and I don't have any problem calling him a friend. Try that with your factory.........
 
Davy, Am I correct in infering from your stated prices that the hand rubbed finish on the Patrolman adds 100 dollars to the price tag? What grit does he take it too? from the pictures it looks like a 220 grit finish. 400 grit is much nicer imo, if that is what it is I can understand the price.

[This message has been edited by yoda4561 (edited 05-08-2000).]
 
Dave if you want to pay Mr. Griffith to be your friend that is your business. As this reviewer just was commenting on the knife and not the maker. I think it was a fair review, and I also believe Maddog knows how the owner of the knife feels about it. Funny how the people at Lynn's forum are telling their members to come over hear and defend Lynn, and no one is asking Lynn about the obvious flaws in these pics of his knife.
 
Again If the owner is not happy , all that has to be done is contact Lynn . Everymaker has had some bad material come out at one time or another....And Lynn does not charge for being a friend , thats free...
You could save alot of money db....Buy more knives
 
As usual, the two distinct "camps" have come out in this thread. There are those who don't like Lynn, whether for personal or professional reasons, and these folks cloak this dislike in negative comments about his knives. And there are those who DO like Lynn, in addition to liking his knives, who take offense at comments which don't truly address the blades.
First of all, it should be known that to my knowledge the knife pictured is one of only three that Lynn has ever made with a serrated edge (and it was at the request of the buyer that he made this one). So sue him for not being perfect. He'll be the first to tell you (publicly) that he has never made a perfect knife. And he stands behind every single knife and sheath he makes, which means a lot. It apparrently needs to be repeated that if the buyer of this knife was not satisfied with the serrations he could have contacted Lynn, who would have made things right.
These comments about "Lynn's rabid following" are simply out of line. I DO own Griffith knives, and I'd wager I know at least as much as the next forum member when it comes to knives. I pay what I pay for Lynn's knives because I want to, and I can. I also pay for Neil Blackwood's knives, Microtech's, Chris Reeves, Matt Lamey's, Ed Schott's, Newt Livesay's, etc etc. The knife described in one of the posts above with all the ornate work is no doubt precious to the owner, and in his mind worth every penny he paid, but for me personally it holds no attraction. Does this give me the right to bad-mouth him for purchasing it? To state that he is "a bit uninformed" for buying a knife with questionable utility value? Absolutely not.
There are custom makers on this forum who's opinions and attitudes bother me, to say the least. It is neither my place nor my responsibility to post negative comments regarding these men or those who buy their knives.
Since I know what's coming (we've gone through this before) let me state clearly that I am not responding to Ray's review, which was thorough and relevant, but to the blatantly negative comments regarding Lynn's entire line of knives, and the disparaging remarks about those who buy them. C'mon, guys, haven't we all had about enough of this crap?
-Paul
 
I have a Patrolman. Blue G-10, plain edge, hand rubbed satin finish. I consider it one of the nicest knives I own. The scales are perfectly symmetrical, the grind is very even, the blade quite sharp. Those serrations in the picture is just somethinig Lynn was trying and he would be the first person to tell you that he prefers to make a plain edge knife. In fact, serrations aren't even really an option. As for the price. A knife is worth what ever the customer is willing to pay for it. Is the knife worth $285? In my opinion, yes. Do I like paying $285 for a knife. Hell no. Would I sell this Patrolman. Nope. It's a good small fixed blade, better made than most of my customs, doesn't raise many eyebrows in public, comes with a lifetime warranty, is very funtional and is quite beautiful. I'm very happy with my knife so that is all that counts.

Have fun.

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~Greg Mete~
Kodiak Alaska
 
>>I pay what I pay for Lynn's knives because I want to, and I can. I also pay for Neil Blackwood's knives, Microtech's, Chris Reeves, Matt Lamey's, Ed Schott's, Newt Livesay's, etc etc. The knife described in one of the posts above with all the ornate work is no doubt precious to the owner, and in his mind worth every penny he paid, but for me personally it holds no attraction. Does this give me the right to bad-mouth him for purchasing it? <<

Okay. I have to agree with this. Satisfaction and value place on a knife/maker are individually based. If the Griffith owners are satisfied, that's what counts.
smile.gif


sing

AKTI #A000356
 
I was dissappointed that the review did not include testing relevant to its use as a tactical knife. I want to know how this knife does in terms of realistic use, not its cosmetic appearance.

It would also be interesting to have a comparative review with knives in its class to see if it and they measure up to expectations of use as tactical knives.

Harry

 
The knife in question is one of two knives with those serrations. The serrations were experimental. I have never offered serrations as a standard feature, and I currently do not.

Satin finish is not an option on my knives. I have done satin finish on knives. I even have some on order with satin finish. You can ask any of my customers though that have knives with satin finish, I did not in any way incourage them to get the satin finish. I personally do not like to put a satin finish on a knife. As for the quality of the finish on that knife, you can tell nothing by the pictures on the internet. I have seen some of the finest knifemakers knives in the world knives pictured on the internet. Fact is, finish is very difficult to determine over the internet.

That exact knife was reviewed very highly by the original owner (Richard) here on these forums. According to 2 e-mails from Kit Carson, Kit is now the owner (he said he purchased it from Richard). He said that he wanted the knife to check it out. He also said "nice knife". I personally find it curious that now owner of the knife would loan it to someone, and then not comment on there review of the knife.

As per value. If you do not think the handrubbed is worth more, then don't order it. If you don't think my knives are priced fairly, then don't order them. This is a free market society. That means, you are free to buy what you want, and I am free to sell what I want. If you don' want it, don't buy it. If you do buy a knife from me over the internet, you have a full 5 day inspection period in which you can return the knife for a full refund if you do not like it for any reason.

I am very greatful to all that own my knives. Thanks to them, I am able to do what I love to do, for a living. That is a great gift, and I appreciate them dearly for that.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion (including maddog2020 and Kit Carson [a owner of this exact knife]). I am very glad to see them put there impressions forward. It may be of great help to me. I do not want anyone to have the impression that I make perfect knives, as that would be a false impression. I do however make knives that I am proud of. I price my knives based on the time I have invested in them, cost of materials and supplies, delivery times, and to encourage my customers to choose black micarta over other handle materials (I much prefer the black).

I apologize for the length of this forum. Maddog2020, thank you for sharing your opinions. Thank you to all that have spoken here. If I am smart, I will learn something from this. Thank you to all that have and continue to support me, as a customer, or as a friend, or as both.

Thank you,

------------------
Lynn Griffith-Knifemaker

See you at Blade Show (table 13c)

griffithknives.com
GriffithKN@aol.com
Griffith Knives Forum
 
Chiro, concerning :

I think that maybe his buyers may be a little uninformed
Click to expand...

Peoples opinions differ. For example take that knife that Phil has a picture of above. It holds no where near a $300 price take for me, but I don't consider either Phil or I uninformed. We just like different things is all. Some blades to me have nearly insane prices. Look at a bowie by some of the better known bladesmiths, Fisk for example. You are not going to get one for anywhere near $300. Compare this to one by a good but not well known smith, how much of an improvement are you going to see for the thousands in price increase? Lets not make personal judgements on people who buy Lynn's or anyone elses knives.

As for Lynn's forum being an ego stroke-fest. When I bought the MNK from Lynn I listed a number of problems I had with it and possible ways it could be improved. This was not interpreted as an attack by Lynn and we just discussed the issues without it ever becoming about us. This review is on Lynn's forum. Yes of course if a maker starts a board then pretty much 100% of the people posting will have a strong attraction to his work. This is true of just about any forum, knives or whatever. However back to the issue at hand I have never had any ego problems with Lynn and have disagreed with him very directly a number of times.

Superdave :

I also believe the owner of the "Patrolman" , that you find fault with, was happy with what he received
Click to expand...

This is one of the critical points. When reviewing a blade some care must be taken to its history or else you can be easily lead to some very poor conclusions. As an example I bought a knife awhile ago and it came with the blade very scratched up and the Micarta flayed (it also may or may not have been blunt, I can't remember). I knew about the finish problems but did not care and payed full price for it as I could get it now whereas I would have to wait for a finished model. When I showed it to a friend he didn't conclude that all blades would come like that as he knows my preferences. Here is the review of the Patrolman by the original owner who was very satisfied with it :

http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/001329.html


-Cliff



[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 05-09-2000).]
 
I have one of Lynn's knives (a SUB Texan), and one of Rob Simonich's knives (a tanto Cetan). Both, incidentally, with maroon micarta scales. With respect to workmanship and quality, both knives are <u>equal</u>. Period.
Maybe Lynn charges to much for his knives. Maybe his knives are too small (I obviously don't think so; I opted for even smaller than the Patrolman - although price was a factor). Maybe he shouldn't charge different prices for different micartas (although he hand finishes all of his handle scales, so any differences in strength/properties are going to be heighthened and more easily noticeable than handles done on a power grinder.
eek.gif
wink.gif
But, his knives are good, his workmanship seems superb in the one sample I have, and he is a great guy to deal with. So is Rob Simonich, Neil Blackwood, Yekim, and even ornery Tim Herman
wink.gif
(THAT'S A JOKE, TIM!) All these guys are artists and craftsmen, and the worth of their knives is in the eye of the beholder (yeah, murdered that cliche
redface.gif
). After getting my first Griffith, I ordered a second. After getting my first Simonich, I ordered a third. You can't put a price on what you want. Only on what you can afford.

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iktomi
 
Rockspyder, Lynn doesn't hand sinish all his knives without the use of power equipment. LIke all people who have access to such equipment, he uses a grinder where he can, then hand tools, then eventually sandpaper. This is from his forum, so I assume the information is right on target.
That said, I don't have access to such machinery, and I use hand files, occasionally a Dremel, and lots of sandpaper to do all my handle work. I can say, without doubt, that all linen Micarta, regardless of color, reacts the same way. There are slight differences from canvas to linen to paper Micartas, but within each type the work identically, regardless of color. I assume the pricing is based on what is popular at the time, and while there is some difference in price from the suppliers, it still doesn't translate to $10-$15 per set of scales. You can buy enough Micarta to handle several large knives at the same price in any color.
In any case, if Lynn can get someone to pay extra for a certain color, then that's fine! When two consenting adults know what they're getting into then that's between them. All I'm saying is that fans shouldn't be saying that certain colors are harder to work than others, therefore it justifies the added cost, because this simply is not true. I don't care what people charge for scales, but rest assured that Maroon Micarta isn't $15 extra because it is any different to work than Black. And this I know because I have hand sanded and hand filed almost every typical color of Micarta out there, and there isn't any difference.

------------------
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