Lynn Griffith Patrolman

Chiro . . . current delivery time on a Griffith knife is eight months, expected to go to nine months before this month is over. He must be doing SOMETHING right.
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do it right the FIRST time . . .

ralph

[This message has been edited by ralphtt (edited 05-09-2000).]
 
Originally posted by Chiro75:
Rockspyder, Lynn doesn't hand sinish all his knives without the use of power equipment. LIke all people who have access to such equipment, he uses a grinder where he can, then hand tools, then eventually sandpaper. This is from his forum, so I assume the information is right on target.
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True, I assume. But, I know that he hand finishes the micarta, with sandpaper.
Originally posted by Chiro75:
In any case, if Lynn can get someone to pay extra for a certain color, then that's fine! When two consenting adults know what they're getting into then that's between them. All I'm saying is that fans shouldn't be saying that certain colors are harder to work than others, therefore it justifies the added cost, because this simply is not true.
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I agree, completely. I can't justify the extra cost to myself, so I went for black on my second one. However, if he were to offer a knife that I wanted and could afford at the time, with other than black micarta, I'd pay the extra.
Originally posted by Chiro75:
I don't care what people charge for scales, but rest assured that Maroon Micarta isn't $15 extra because it is any different to work than Black. And this I know because I have hand sanded and hand filed almost every typical color of Micarta out there, and there isn't any difference.
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In that case, you are head and shoulders above me in experience. I only wish I had that much experience. And finally, note the smiley face after the
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above. I was just ribbing you on the grinding. Just wanted to make sure you saw that.
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I have seen the pictures that you have posted of your work, up close pictures. And I have to say that I have an extremely high regard for your skill in doing knife kits, as well as kydex.

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iktomi
 
I wasn't going to jump into this but, here goes.
Material cost has very little affect on the final price of a knife. A makers time adds more to that than anything else unless he is working pure gold, precious stones or some other extremly rare material.
Makers price their time based on an hourly rate. How much are you paid hourly working for the man? It varies from person to person. I have seen makers charge anywhere from $9/hr to $125/hr. You set a certain amount that you would like to make per year, figure how many knives can be made in a year and at what price they have to sell for in order to reach that dollar amount.Some makers can produce 400 knives while others can produce only 50 per year. There are so many expenses that have to be paid for in the shop and around the home.
If a maker can get people to buy what he makes for the price he asks then so be it.

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http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=126319&a=926274
 
Interesting you mentioned the time aspect, because I just read a thread on Lynn's forum about the time it takes to make each knife (with office work, marketing, etc factored in). It was a pretty interesting discussion. I think I am getting a rap as not respecting Lynn's work. This is far from true. He has good grind lines, nicely fitted scales that are well shaped, and the blades are well-shaped for utility function. Also his sheathwork seems to be up to par, and he responds to what his customers want. I just think that his knives are overpriced for what you get. With any knife, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Like Cliff stated, some makers can charge you $3,000+ for under $100 in material costs! Therefore, as any knife collector knows, the materials make up little of a knife's value. Lynn has happy customers, and while he doesn't churn out a huge number of knives per year (hence the long wait), he does a good job and people are willing to pay his prices, so that's what matters.
To clean up a few other odds and ends, I think $100 extra for a satin finished blade is a pretty easy-to-justify charge, up to a point. I have hand finished a bunch of ATS-34 blades and they are a real pain in the butt to satin finish. It is a lot of work. Now if it is correct that the knife originally pictured is only to a 220 grit, then $100 is outlandishly expensive. If the knife has been nicely rubbed to a 400 or greater finish, however, then that little touch adds a lot of time and frustration to the maker's end, so a higher price is very justifiable.
If you want to attack someone for pricing, though, there are easier targets than Lynn, like Cliff mentioned!

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My Knife & Sheath Pages:
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I would like to say that i am the proud owner of 4 of Lynn's knives and so far have handled about 12 of them,the above patrolman in no way represents the fit and finish of the the plain edge patrolman Lynn offers.The regular patrolman is excellent in every aspect from handle to blade,they are not the biggest knives you can buy in his line but they are one of the most comfortable using knives i have ever held. i wish folks would stop knocking Lynn,i read a thread about paying for Lynns friendship,Lynn and i got to be friends 6 months before i ever ordered one of his knives from him in fact only two have come directly from him.This world and these forums are full of different opinions and that is what makes it a great place.I've seen makers knives that are priced at 1000's of dollars and i just dont see the value,so i dont buy them we all pay for what we want and seeing these high dollar knives doesnt make me want to get on the forums and publicly criticize those makers,you see this same bull about chris reeves sebenzas but like Lynn he must be doing something right because he keeps selling them. anyway I am proud to call Lynn my friend and friend is what he is,and i hope he keeps making knives and those of you who dont like him please keep talking bad about him and causing controversy because each time this happens on these exact forums his waiting time for one of his knives just keeps getting longer and longer,so thank all of you naysayers out there for helping my friends business keep growing and growing so he can continue to keep doing what he loves best Make Knives for people who appreciate a good craftsman when they see one.
 
Concerning pricing, one other significant aspect is how the blades are being made. Right now I would guess that Lynn is probably working in batches, several like blades at a time. This greatly increases productivity. However any difference will create a significant drop in time even if it is not actually more difficult to do but just different. Basically if you have a custom maker who is grinding one blade at a time then asking him to customize it should not effect the price significantly, however this will not be the same for makers in batch mode on with "production" models for the above reason. The difference in cost between a production blade and a custom blade from the same maker can often be extreme. Check out the price of a custom from Busse Combat for example.

The $100 increase on the Patrolman covers the serrations, finish and G10 scales. Three changes from the standard version. As for relative value as a whole, from my point of view I don't see a lot of people in or below that price range that offer the same quality of production functionality wise and has Lynn's attitude about performance. I do however see a lot of people well about Lynn's price range that will not be open about their blades, will ignore, avoid, dodge or attack when questioned. Their value to me is none. Ed Schott comes to mind though as someone I would readily buy from in that price range. He has a similar wait time and is also straightforward about his blades. Very different base geometry and handle design though. Allen Blade is another, similar aspects there.

-Cliff
 
Cliff, the reasoning, mainly, behind certain price increases is profit. It doesn't take any longer to fit one color of scales than it does another! Enough said on that point, though.... there are plenty of knifemakers that offer excellent fit and finish and will bend over backward for customers that are priced the same or well below Lynn's stuff. Some names that come to mind are the Jones Brothers, Running Dog Knife Co., Allen Blade, Neil Blackwood, Jens Anso, Ross Aki, a host of guys in the Shop Talk forum, and that's just what I can think of off the top of my head. Hit a good knife show someday and the pricing will blow your socks off!

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Sheath Makers Referral Directory
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Some quick comments:

Do a hand satin finish on a knife blade some time. You probably wouldn't do it again for less than $50 if you fed your family making knives.

Lighter color micartas can be discolored by heat from the grinding belts, or by grit. They have to be ground more slowly and more carefully.

Bob Dozier continues to be my baseline for basic, handmade, hard-use knives. He puts out a knife that is not fancy, but perfect in every other way for around $175.
 
I have to share my thoughts on this whole topic. Yes, they are expensive. But, thats what Lynn's market will bear. People are ordering these knives like crazy, and he is getting a pretty big backlog. I have been to Lynn's shop and have seen the work that goes into these knives. This man works pretty hard making these knives, and his quality is getting better every time I look at one of his knives. I consider Lynn a good friend, but I dont have many of his knives. I have one that I use all the time, and it just keeps on cutting. I dont have more, simply because my tastes as a collector tend to fall into a different area. I love forged, flat ground satin finished bowies, fighters and hunters. I have seen some knives at Lynn's house that would make anybody on this list happy, but Lynn doesnt have time to do all that handrubbing and filework. He is too busy making what the public is demanding and more than happy to pay for. Bottom line here is buy it if you like it and are willing to pay for it. Sorry for rambling on.

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Danbo, soul brother of Rambo
 
Steve, I have hand satin finished a lot of blades, and a $50 extra charge would be more than reasonable! The really tough part is getting the area next to the ricasso cleaned up. Satin finishing is very difficult to do, and very frustrating, too. I have no problem with an extra charge for a satin finish. Apparently there is a machine that can satin finish for you (read about it in reference to Whitewing Knives), and if I was a pro it would be my first purchase!
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My Knife & Sheath Pages:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/frames.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
Sheath Makers Referral Directory
agocs_s@dd.palmer.edu
Madpoet (Mel Sorg, Jr.) Tribute page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/madpoet/main.html
 
There have been a lot of responses to this thread. Some of the folks here have different feelings about Lynn Griffith. I had the pleasure of chatting with Lynn back in the Fall and he seems like a decent true knife nut.
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In fact, I have been trying to get him back into BF IRc chat for a while. I think he is a decent guy.

I am going to try to address some of the questions that have surfaced in the past day or so. Please forgive me if I miss something. There has been a lot to read.
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I posted facts, and the pictures show what I was trying to get across. The review was written by myself. I am not a confident writer, and I don't always use correct sentense structure.
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Mr. Carson does own this Patrolman we are discussing. IMHO, it doesn't matter who owns the knife period. Prototype/test knife, or whatever you want to call it, this knife has flaws. I own several custom fixed blades, and folders so I have seen a wide array of things. Production knives have gotten to be much better quality over the past several months and this will force makers to pay a little more attention to detail. I buy customs because each peace is a little piece of a maker’s soul in it. Yeah, that may sound kind of corny, but its just how I feel. I wouldn't buy a custom made by some one I didn't respect.

Back on my original post, I said I wouldn't pay $295 for this particular knife, I didn’t said I wouldn't buy a Lynn Griffith product. I don't doubt Lynn's abilities, or his integrity. He has a lot of loyal customers posting.
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I felt that the cost of the knife was too high for what you got for the money. Yeah, you can argue that a lot of other makers commend even HIGHER prices, and so on,
but the bottom line is any item is only worth what some one is willing to pay for it. If some one wants to pay a lot of money for some thing that is their own prerogative. My point is you don't have to spend a lot of money to buy a good quality knife. Knife art items are gorgeous, and I appreciate the craftsmanship, and beauty.
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I rather
not have to spend $300 for an everyday user/abuser fixed blade knife.

Current market trend on custom knives is crazy. The people buying the knives are going to ultimately control the prices, along with availability of course. We shouldn’t have to pay a lot of money for a standard user style knife. A maker can ask for what they want. We can chose to buy what we want. My point is I want a good knife for a fair
price.

Some makers share this mentality. One that comes to mind is Allen Blade. I have a Talonite MEUK that I got in a trade: quality work for a great price. Allen started coming out with a lot of user class knives at affordable prices. Here is a link for viewing some specification on a Combat Patrol Bowie: http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum36/HTML/000155.html

I am not hung up on whose name is on a knife. If the knife is well made, it will sell itself. Knives are tools and will generally out last the owners. When I am no longer around, some one is going to pick up one of my old knives and say: “this is well made knife .... hmmm, but I never heard of this guys name on it though”.
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Bottom line is quality sells.
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Ray 'md2020'

ATKI member #A001042
 
I don't own one of Lynn's knives but I have handled them, talked with him about them, shared thoughts on knife making, and I consider Lynn a friend of mine.
I tried G10 on some folding knife scales and it eat up a new sanding belt. The carbon fiber is far more difficult to work with and that isn't counting the health hazards involved. That was about 3 yrs ago and I haven't used it since. I probably won't either as I don't really like it.
I guess I ought to try and buy the "one of three" knives that was serrated if Lynn isn't going to make any more. Might be worth as much as a "Moran" in a 100 yrs. Who knows but it is something to think about.
Chiro, I mailed your silver wire but I can't ever get the E-mail to deliver.

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Ray Kirk
http://www.tah-usa.net/raker
 
The more I look at a Patrolman, it reminds me of a steak knife.
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You won't believe this, but I just happened to see the Patrolman banner for (the first time) on this forum today, and my very first thought was "Wow, now that's a fancy name for a steak knife!".
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JK
 
Originally posted by Jedi Knife:
You won't believe this, but I just happened to see the Patrolman banner for (the first time) on this forum today, and my very first thought was "Wow, now that's a fancy name for a steak knife!".
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JK
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Now, that's because its an OFFICIAL issue steak knife
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I, too, finally decided that I had to weigh in on this topic.

I have a custom Tracker model on order from Lynn which I am expecting by the end of this month. While I have not yet presonally seen or handled one of Lynn's knives, I can say without ANY reservation that Lynn is a true gentleman with whom I would gladly do more business in the future.

At every point along the way, from my first questions to him about his knives and materials, to the actual ordering process, to PROACTIVELY keeping me updating on my knife's progress, dealing with Lynn has been the best custom knife buying experience of mine to date.

I have handmade customs from Bob Dozier, Trace Rinaldi, John Greco, and Rob Simonich. I will shortly be able to compare knives and workmanship from each of these establish, well-respected makers with Lynn's work. If Lynn's work comes anywhere close to his exceptional and friendly customer service, his knives will easily compare with the others'.

While I'm on the topic, it seems to me that we often get too caught up in some of these threads and make them way too complicated and personal. These forums should be fun, like old friends getting together to talk about knives.

Y'all take good care. I'll write a review and a comparison of Lynn's work after I've played with my Tracker a bit.

AJ
 
After reading the post that Lynn btt, of Rich's, it seems unlikly that a customer asked Lynn for the serrations. Since he made the knife then posted it for sale, and even told Rich he designed the serrations to cut meat. Maybe the steak knife comment is on target after all.
Now what could the reson for the uneven grind be?
 
BTW, I got to handle, sing's Chuck Hallberg (TX) D2 fixed blade 'neck' knife with a kydex sheath last nite: very nice user class knife for a LOW $. Here is a link to a different knife Chuck made: http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/001450.html Hallberg definitely would fall into the big bang for the $ IMHO.

Big Tex, I totally agree about Ray Kirk of Raker knives ----> big bang for the $!
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Here is a link to one of the Raker FB: http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/001237.html


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Ray 'md2020'

ATKI member #A001042
 
All right…. Enough is enough!!!!
I guess it is time to put the horse ahead of the cart….If you don’t own nor have never seen a Lynn Griffith knife in person….SHUT UP!!!1

Now… to get on with it, I have never personally seen one in person…so I should shut up as well…. But before I go let me say this.

I’m a 16 year veteran of the USAF (yeah, what do we know??? Right!) wrong….I was there and I got all the salad on my chest to show for it.. No I ain’t no HERO, but I was there. In Panama, Haiti, Somalia, The Storm and most recently Bosnia. Yeah I should have joined the army but I didn’t. I’m an ex Paraweather (for you who don’t know what that is….. we jump with the Army cause they ain’t smart enough to figure out what the weather is gonna do…(I can already hear the responses to that true statement).

Webster’s defines Tactical as “Main Entry: tac·ti·cal
Pronunciation: 'tak-ti-k&l
Function: adjective
Date: 1570
1 : of or relating to combat tactics: as a (1) : of or occurring at the battlefront <tactical defense> <tactical first strike> (2) : using or being weapons or forces employed at the battlefront <tactical missiles> b of an air force : of, relating to, or designed for air attack in close support of friendly ground forces
2 a : of or relating to tactics: as (1) : of or relating to small-scale actions serving a larger purpose (2) : made or carried out with only a limited or immediate end in view b : adroit in planning or maneuvering to accomplish a purpose”

As you can see by the BOLD, I like those two choices the best. Maybe I’m partial because I’m in the AF.

Webster’s defines knife as follows:

Main Entry: 1knife
Pronunciation: 'nIf
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural knives /'nIvz/
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: Middle English knif, from Old English cnIf, perhaps from Old Norse knIfr; akin to Middle Low German knIf knife
Date: before 12th century
1 a : a cutting instrument consisting of a sharp blade fastened to a handle b : a weapon resembling a knife
2 : a sharp cutting blade or tool in a machine
3 : SURGERY 4 -- usually used in the phrase under the knife
- knife·like /'nIf-"lIk/ adjective


Again the bold indicates my preference. So if we look at the two definitions combined they are as follows: (Edited of course)

: weapons employed at the battlefront, a cutting instrument consisting of a sharp blade fastened to a handle.

Now, I don’t know if any of Mr. G’s knives have been deployed the battlefront (if you know of any let us all know), but I know for a fact that I would (and will if I have to go again) deploy with one of his knives.

So what if Mr. G’s knifes are small. They are still tactical in the truest definition.

If you don’t want to buy one of his blades DON’T!!!!

If you would like to buy one and can afford it DO.

I personally WILL purchase one at the Blade Show, (hopefully, if he has any left).

I’ve used many knives during my AF career. I own some by Jimmy Lile, R.E. Barber, Gene Martin and some Gerbers to name a few. I also own a Jefferson Spivey (you guys are doing a search on him right now). I carried the Spivey and the Gerber BMF (serrated) during both the Storm and the Panama invasion.

One thing I can say is Mr. G is really a nice guy who is doing what he loves to do. How many of us can say that about our jobs. I hope to try my hand at making knives when my time serving my country is up.

Bottom line: If you review a knife (or car, or truck or fishing rod or whatever)….do the review after you have used what you are reviewing. Do Not review something you’ve never seen !

By the way, I will review my Griffith knife on this forum after I buy and use it.

Gary
 
maddog,
This quote of yours should recieve the Pulitzer Prize for best knife quotes.

"I am not hung up on whose name is on a knife. If the knife is well made, it will sell itself. Knives are tools and will generally out last the owners. When I am no longer around, some one is going to pick up one of my old knives and say: “this is well made knife .... hmmm, but I never heard of this guys name on it though”. Bottom line is quality sells."

 
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