m2 afck vs spyderco miliary in cpm440v

M

memnoch

Joined
Oct 7, 1998
Messages
1,469
ok those are my 2 finalists for the honnor of being my primary knife. the other i will have is a gerber double bevel covert for my left side.

i need votes to chose. i like each knife so i need help to decide.

regertlfully both is not an option

HELP ME PLEASE!!!!

thanks
 
I can't comment on the AFCK since I don't own one and can't find one on the island I live on to check it out. I do have a Spydie Military, though and I like it a lot.

The Military was my first real quality knife and I base a lot of my newer knives against this. Here is what I like about it:
1. No blade play at all
2. CPM440V keeps a very sharp edge--I'm nowhere near needing to sharpen this knife yet after using it for almost 2 months
3. The action is very smooth. Flicking the knife open is a breeze, too if you desire to do that
4. The scales are G-10 & they haven't faded a bit
5. It's very light weight but feels very secure.
6. The clip is of high quality
7. The liner lock passes all spine pressure and book banging test

I can't really think of anything I don't like about this knife. I have a serrated model, if I had to buy it again I would go plain edge.

Good luck on your decision. This knife really cuts well.

------------------
~Greg~
Kodiak Alaska
KnifeKnutt@aol.com



 
I'm kinda curious myself to see what all of you have to say in regards to these 2 knives. I bought an M-2 but sent it back due to it having blade play and the blade catching the liners and scraping some of the BT2 off. However, having carried a BM 800SBT for a year now, there were some nice improvements like new G-10 (had more grip), threaded inserts on the G-10 stocks. Though now I'm thinking of trying it again and getting another one, but then there's the AXIS calling too!
Kodiak: Curious about your Military. This knife and I go back a ways. Have you had or foresee any liner-lock failure where the liner may go all the way over and stick in between the knife and G-10 due t lack of double liners? Also do you notice much flex in the handle due to the lack of dual liners?
Thanks
Buck
 
Buck, that's a good question and I have thought about that from reading other threads when this has come up. I think Dexter or Gene can give a more expert opinion but I have used this knife hard cycling the blade and I can't for the life of me see any sliding of the liner-lock. That may be in part to it's nice 90 degree angle against the tapered tang. As the tang recesses towards the opposite side of the liner, the enlarging portion of the tang effectively removes any chance of it sliding too much. Anyone else have a opinion on this? My wife's Buck Crosslock I gave her yesterday doesn't do this and that bothers me some. Her blade's tang is level and perpendicular to the liner so it slides all over the place.
frown.gif


There is only the mildest movement of the scales when I press the G-10 and that only happens when I compress the handle in a way I would never do when actually using the knife. I have to use both of my thumbs against edge of the handle openings to do this. It feels really secure when I hold the scales in the correct manner. I think the double steel post in the back spacer make this stronger too. My EDI Genesis does the same thing and that has dual titanium liners so I don't think there will be a problem with the Military.

I'll be interested in what the others have to say.

Greg

[This message has been edited by Kodiak PA (edited 26 December 1998).]

[This message has been edited by Kodiak PA (edited 26 December 1998).]
 
Hello Greg (looks like this is my cue!) About the Military's liner lock bar moving over to the opposite scale over time of hard use (or even flicking) - I've used my Military hard and even flick it open from time to time. So far, I have not noticed any further movement of the lock bar than the distance it is moving to create the solid lock up. Heck, I am very convinced that the Military models are so well built that if you have one that has the liner move over to the opposite scale over time, it must be a defective knife
wink.gif


------------------
Dexter Ewing
Knife Reviews Moderator

"The keystroke is mightier than the sword"






[This message has been edited by Dexter Ewing (edited 27 December 1998).]
 
Greg, Dexter,
Thanks for the valued input. Guess I need to take a look at the new improved Military. I have not had the opportunity to see one yet.
Buck
 
Hi:

Unless Spyderco has completely changed the knife, I am unimpressed with the Military (I think Spyderco's Wegner is a much better knife). Aside from possible problems with the liner, the overall feel and action is coarse - unlike the Wegner. The only thing I like is the big blade. This is one knife that should have been much better than it is. The early ones were an embarrassment from a company that ususally gets it right.

OTOH, the AFCK is tried and true, has great ergonomics and can be had with the superior M-2.
 
The Military has undergone some major changes since it was taken off the market and reappeared this year. Their advertisement spouts 11 changes and I quote:
1. Stainless steel torx head assembly screws
2. Double steel posts in back spacer
3. Concave tang ramp
4. Redesigned choil
5. Improved dyeing procedure for the G-10
6. Nested stop pin threaded and screwed from both sides
7. Eccentric pivot pin
8. Redefined serration angle
9. Stronger clip
10. Polished linerlock
11. Harder linerlock material

And let's not forget the 440v. I paraphrased from their latest ad in Blades Magazine

~Greg~
 
Fulcrum,

The new Military must be a completely different animal than you remember.

I have the Wegner Jr. and the Military.

The Military is one of the fastest opening and smoothest knives in my collection.

Though thin, the G-10 actually seems to flex less (when done intentionally) than either of my M-2 AFCK's (mini and large).

I had to be talked into the Military by several friends on this list. Now I know the answer to the question, isn't that what friends are for?
wink.gif


Try it, I think you'll like it.

Blues

------------------
"Live Free or Die"





 
thanks for the advice gents.
the military it is.

until i atualy handle both and change my mind
 
I don't think you will be disappointed. The longer I have mine, the nicer I think it is. I feel that the action improves with use!



------------------
~Greg Mete~
Kodiak Alaska
KnifeKnutt@aol.com




 
The differnt feel to the Spyderco G-10 is probably because they use a 6 layer G-10 as opposed to the standard 4 layer.

The Military is very nice, and the handle is the more ergonomic of the two for me, but I own two AFCK's, one in M2, and 0 Military's.
 
Both are great knives, so pick the one that feels best to you. The M-2 AFCK blade is probably tougher than the 440V blade, but the Military blade is thicker and has a sturdy tip, so strength should be a wash.

If you do get the Military, open it up and put a fair amount of weight on the blade in the cutting direction, as if you were cutting something really tough, then check to make sure that you can still unlock the knife.

Harv
 
When I was comparing the Benchmade AFCK and the Spyderco Military my main concern regarding the latter was that my index finger seemed to depress the liner lock spring in the cut-out area rather easily when I squeezed the knife hard. I could feel the lock loosen up appreciably, and this perceived lack of security was enough to make me reconsider and buy the AFCK (which had the advantage of being a rare M2 blade at an excellent price). I'm still tempted to buy a Military, because I like everything else about it, and some things I like better compared to the AFCK, such as the larger thumb hole. If I buy a Military, I will serioulsly consider grinding off part of spring at the access point, so it doesn't protrude so far out of the handle.

Have any of you Military fans noticed the problem I have described?

David Rock
 
Hi Dave,
To be slightly off topic, I noticed the same liner-releasing-with-index-finger- pressure on my BM emerson 970 and ground off the offending portion of the liner w/ my trusty Dremel tool. This has worked like a charm for me, but has also resulted in the denial of warranty work as the liner has been "modified."

Grumble
Grumble
Grumble

Good luck in whatever you choose

Greg Chu
 
Besides the lack of dual liners and the fact that Buck was put in a very precarious position while hanging from a rope off the side of a cliff with a Military stuck in the open position because of this......the one thing that really turned me off from the Military is the huge handle. IMHO, it is huge and bulky, much more so than necessary, and I could not carry it comfortably in my pocket because of the size. The AFCK carries much more comfortably, IMHO. As far as Spydees, I like the Wegner and the Goddard the best.

JMHO,
thaddeus
 
Hello Greg, Dex, memnoch and you all,
I have heard this complaint time and time again about the Military not having dual liners, (hell, I like it's hollow body because I can blow accumilated dirt right out), and therein lies it's weakness, due to flex. Well, let me tell you that is BOGUS! Just last week during a cold snap up here in Mt. Shasta, Calif., I had to cut a piece of frozen reinforced hose that was tangled up in some metal grating. The old hose was so tough and so frozen that I actually had to use my foot to stand on the back of the blade while holding on to the handle to force it through the last half of the hose. The knife then closed as smooth as butter as I returned it to my back pocket. All this in about 35 degrees below zero, (with the wind chill). If that didn't prove to me this is one knife that I could always count on, I don't know what could. If you are feeling excess flex when you squeeze the handle hard, or the knife is at all hard to close after putting pressure in the cutting stroke, or the action is not smooth in opening or closing, SEND IT BACK! You have a DEFECTIVE knife. Yes, the Military is big. Yes, it has a large heavy blade, (though the knive as a total is a lightweight for it's size). But if you are looking for a knife that has the absolute best blade size/weight ratio that fits into the slimmest, lightest handle, this is the knife for you. Not to mention that because of it's weight forward massive blade, it is probably the quickest and easiest manual knife to open there is. Also with it's great flat ground thin edged blade, it is one of the handiest do-it-all knives you'll ever use. It is not the knife for everyone, but what knife is? Almost 99% of the complaints you'll ever hear about the Military, (and 100% about sticking open), can be blamed on the first generation batch. These new improved versions are FAR superior. Do not buy a Military if you are looking for a collectible. Do not buy it just because a whole lot of us forumites like it a lot. Buy it because you'll USE IT! And therein lies it's beauty
 
Bravo, Gene.
wink.gif


Well said.

So much for theory, practice has just kicked its butt.

TBSAFKA Blues

------------------
Live Free or Die





 
Gene - Thank you. The Military Model was designed to be the "state of the art" Produc tion folder of the time. We believe the 2nd generation version is that. Every one of the many parts in this model was examined and refined. We listen to all of the comments (good and some negative), but our own constant testing enforces our beliefs. We believe that nested liners are more evolved and stronger than separate liners. And more expensive to produce. (Ask for favorite custom maker how much more they will charge you to nest their "full liner" just inside the scale like Spyderco's Military). "Form", in addition to the "pins" create rigidity. It may be possible to "white knuckle" a lock release, but this hasn't happened to our knowledge. Being able to easily close the knife after hard user with gloves on was a major consideration. Any of you that have had a folder lock open and not be able to close it? It's like a chain saw that won't stop...what do you do with it? The new "SecurLok" that Frank Centofante invented is scheduled to be added to the Military Model somethime in '99. This would eliminate the fear of accidental lock release.

The Military Model was not designed as a fighting knife, nor was it designed for suit and tie carry. It was designed to be the most dependable cutting tool accessory a soldier might need while in the "bush". The handle is a little larger to afford the dual grip potential. Design is always a great discussion because there are so many points of view. eg: blades are for cutting, handles are for holding. A 2" blade specifically designed for controlled cutting loses it's ability to control if the handle is only just long enough to cover the blade. Nothing to purchase on. A scalpel is a good example of this. What is the knife designed to do. Look at? by all means, balance the sizes to apperarance, use? tougher problem here. Just one designers point of view. I have avoided responding to this thread as it was my design in question and this was a comparision type question. It would be expected that I would be biased.
sal
 
Sal,
If I didn't know any better, I would say you're getting the Blade Forums bug. You know you're getting hooked to this place when the first thing you do in the morning is check the posts and the last thing you do before bed.
smile.gif

Welcome!

------------------
~Greg Mete~
Kodiak Alaska
KnifeKnutt@aol.com




 
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