M390 vs. M4 Rope Cut Test

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Feb 9, 2012
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Well, it's Monday again. That means Mrs. VegasBlade is at work, and I am left to my Mad Scientist Workshop.....er, I mean the garage. So off to Home Depot I went for some 3/8" manilla rope. It's cut test Monday.

This weeks contestants were the Military is M390 vs my M4 Military. I thought this one would be close. In fact, I was surprised at the outcome myself.

As many of you know, my test is a pure cutting test. Not a toughness, just standard "which will slice longer". This is the perimeters of this test. I took both Millies down to a 17* per side, 34* inclusive edge. This was done on my new Wicked Edge. I sharpened both to 600 grit on the WE. This angle and grit makes for a NASTY slicer. It cuts well and LONG. I make a series of cuts through the rope then I test if the edge will cleanly slice paper. When the edge won't cleanly slice paper, that steel is done. The benefit of a clean slice goes to the steel. If it catches or hangs up, I slice paper again. If it catches again, it's over. That steel's corner throws in the towel.

This test went a while. Both of these steels are very much "Super Steels", and at 17* per side, they could slice. In the end it was ......wait for it...... M390, by a decent margin. The M4 went 400 slices through the rope before it was done. The M390 was still clean at 460. It could have gone more, but at almost 900 cuts, I was tired of slicing. I thought it would be closer. My guess is that the 20% chromium in the M390, mixed in with the 4% Vanadium combined to make a seriously wear resistant, durable steel. I thought the Tungsten, Moly, and Vanadium of the M4 would maybe combine to win. Alas, it was not happening.

So, in my tests thus far it was M4 over Cruwear, S30V over Cruwear, and M390 over M4. Maybe next week I'll do CPM D2 vs Cruwear.

As always, thoughts are welcome.
 
Thanks for doing these tests!

I predict Cruwear over CPM-D2. I like the non-powdered D2 because of the full size carbides.
 
Do you know what hardness your two examples are? I have a custom M4 knife at 64 Rockwell, and I haven't needed to sharpen it yet.
 
Could you test Sleipner vs CPM D2 or M4? I'd like to know how it holds up. I've seen similar tests with rope were M4 out performed M390 in edge retension. But good that other people are getting different results. Maybe it's more of a statement of the knife and HRC than the steels themselves.
 
A little while ago, I did a review of a custom fixed blade made by a forum member. While I wasn't comparing steels to each other, I was testing M390. I was amazed at the results.

(I will include a link to my review if you are okay with me doing so.)
 
Thanks all. Reference the RC hardness on the Spyderco Millie in M4, I'm not 100%, but in thinking 61-62-ish. Am fluid, I'm guessing your custom is running about 2 points harder than a production Millie. Should be phenomenal, and I'm betting that those 2 or so points would change the results of this test. Maybe enough to change the results.

Ulf, can't test that steel. One, I don't have any, and two, my main goal here is to keep the same edges, on the same knives. By doing so, I eliminate as many variables as possible.There is no Millie in that steel. Ankerson's tests are more valid for testing larger samples of steels. Ankerson's tests use a set amount of downward pressure to determine when the knife is dull. By putting his steel in catagories, he is able to account for different edge geometries and blade lengths.


****Mfreeze, sure, link it. This is all about steel, and what it can do. :)
 
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Could you test Sleipner vs CPM D2 or M4? I'd like to know how it holds up. I've seen similar tests with rope were M4 out performed M390 in edge retension. But good that other people are getting different results. Maybe it's more of a statement of the knife and HRC than the steels themselves.

Ulf, can't test that steel. One, I don't have any, and two, my main goal here is to keep the same edges, on the same knives. By doing so, I eliminate as many variables as possible.There is no Millie in that steel. Ankerson's tests are more valid for testing larger samples of steels. Ankerson's tests use a set amount of downward pressure to determine when the knife is dull. By putting his steel in catagories, he is able to account for different edge geometries and blade lengths.

As a related aside, I'm sending my brand new LionSteel Police PM2 with a Sleipner steel blade to Ankerson for his tests. I'm very curious to see how it stacks up. LionSteel PM2 is a little bigger than Spyderco PM2.
 
Vegas Blade, can you detail your sharpening procedure? I tried to replicate your tests and had some surprising results. I think sharpening is the easiest thing to check. IIRC you are using a Wicked Edge? Are you still using notebook paper?
 
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I am using a WE. I sharpen to 17* per side. I then sharpen to the 600 grit stone. Yes, still notebook paper. It's as common as I can find. :)

Do share your results. This is all about learning the steels. Were yours different?
 
Still need to do some coarse edge testing on CPM M4, my GB is at 62.5 RC.....

But yes, M390 should do better than CPM M4 in the 61-62 range, remember both steels have the same amount of Vanadium, but the HT of M390 pulls a lot of Chromium into producing carbides.

I still have the GB, the Cru-Wear Military and the S110V Manix 2 I need to run plus the Lion Steel knife once it gets here coarse edge testing...
 
Thanks all. Reference the RC hardness on the Spyderco Millie in M4, I'm not 100%, but in thinking 61-62-ish. Am fluid, I'm guessing your custom is running about 2 points harder than a production Millie. Should be phenomenal, and I'm betting that those 2 or so points would change the results of this test. Maybe enough to change the results.

Ulf, can't test that steel. One, I don't have any, and two, my main goal here is to keep the same edges, on the same knives.

Gotch ya. Just bought a Lionsteel SR2a and a contego so might try a rope cutting edge of my own against Sleipner,M4 and D2 from Adamas. Espeically want to see how much better the Sleipner is than D2 since it's supposed to be a better version of D2.
 
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