M390 vs. S90V?

DudeWayne84 said:
Why is anyone using quality knives for prying anything substantial, anyway? That’s what the Leatherman is for.
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Who knows but knife abuse is a thing, and some people feel they must use a cutting tool for doing the job of a crowbar lol. Which hey I guess you could get away with it if you were using something like Magnacut or 4v but there's really no need to be prying things with your blade, use a different tool for that!
 
Leo Greer said:
I’d personally take the S90V just to have something different. M390/20CV is the go-to for a nice knife in today’s world and I would like to see that change a bit. Don’t get me wrong, it’s obviously a very good steel, but I would personally like to see some others there.

For example, I would personally really like to see CPM M4, 4V, 3V, and 14C28N more commonly on high end folders.

14C28N is especially underrated, considering how dang similar it is to the highly regarded LC200N.

I would love an elegant, simplistic folder in 3V. Because of it’s toughness, that means it can handle a thinner edge with more stability. Why do 3V knives have to be bulky workhorse styles or fixed blades??

I do know of the 3V Hinderer wharncliff and the 3V Kizer Critical, but sadly neither of those appeal to me. 😒
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Yea but then the question becomes how much toughness do you really need in a folder? Personally I think Magnacut, 4v and cpm-Cruwear are just about as tough as you could possibly ever want or need in a folder, I've seen videos of Magnacut in particular with .017 edge so basically getting close to near zero, be driven into a nail with a hammer and after several strikes and finally cutting through the nail there was no chipping at all, in fact even under magnification could barely see a blemish.

Once at Magnacut/ 4v levels of toughness really the only improvements to be had are in wear resistance, unfortunately there's nothing more wear resistant with that same level of toughness yet so the only thing we can do is trade some toughness for more wear resistance.
 
Bob Denman said:
So let's throw S110V into the fracas...
How does it stack up?
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Generally, S110V is about the same as S90V for edge retention. You could maybe give S90V a slight advantage, but most people won't notice the difference.

S110V has better corrosion resistance; S90V is a little tougher

Just my opinion, but I would consider S90V the better choice for most people because it has pretty good stainlessness and is a bit more forgiving regarding chipping etc.
 
Rockwelledge75 said:
Yea but then the question becomes how much toughness do you really need in a folder? Personally I think Magnacut, 4v and cpm-Cruwear are just about as tough as you could possibly ever want or need in a folder, I've seen videos of Magnacut in particular with .017 edge so basically getting close to near zero, be driven into a nail with a hammer and after several strikes and finally cutting through the nail there was no chipping at all, in fact even under magnification could barely see a blemish.

Once at Magnacut/ 4v levels of toughness really the only improvements to be had are in wear resistance, unfortunately there's nothing more wear resistant with that same level of toughness yet so the only thing we can do is trade some toughness for more wear resistance.
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Those are all good and true points. 4V was on my list. I left MagnaCut out because I know it’s getting used in stuff, and will be used in more.

However, I may also remind that practically no one really needs their knives to have the level of toughness and especially wear resistance of the steels that we like. A bunch of it is novelty factor.

I’m not looking for tough-steel folders because I’m cutting through nails or doing crazy batoning, I just like the idea of a folder with super tough steel.

That, and most folding knives nowadays have locks that are significantly stronger than their blades, to huge extents, so upgrading the steel’s toughness is just trying to get the steel to match the rest of the knife.
 
My personal choice would S90V just because . :)
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S90V is my favorite stainless, hands down. If I could get more knives in it, I would. M390 is rarely run at the 60-62 HRC it needs to be run at, and regardless, has always proved to be chippy. Spyderco usually does heat treats pretty good, so I'd take s90v alll day. It can be tough to sharpen due to high vanadium content, but if you have diamond plates you'll be good.
 
ktataragasi said:
I have recently fallen in love with S90v on my 535-3 Bugout. I do have one knife with M390 that sharp impressed me but S90v just wants to cut and cut. It also stops up to shaving after doing a good bit of work quite easily.
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So, I’m curious, is it worth spending the extra $$$ for the carbon fiber handle? I was tempted, but went stock handle with s90v blade.
 
Rockwelledge75 said:
Who knows but knife abuse is a thing, and some people feel they must use a cutting tool for doing the job of a crowbar lol. Which hey I guess you could get away with it if you were using something like Magnacut or 4v but there's really no need to be prying things with your blade, use a different tool for that!
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Just bought a Widgy 4" curved pocket crowbar. It is what most people want when they ask for a knife, and really useful anyways. They have a 2" model, a 3" curved and not curved. Carrying a Leatherman Wingman, that 4" Widgy, a PM2 and a backup knife like a RAT... ain't nothing I can't do. I love pocket tools.
 
Chuck_Nunface said:
S90V is my favorite stainless, hands down. If I could get more knives in it, I would. M390 is rarely run at the 60-62 HRC it needs to be run at, and regardless, has always proved to be chippy. Spyderco usually does heat treats pretty good, so I'd take s90v alll day. It can be tough to sharpen due to high vanadium content, but if you have diamond plates you'll
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Thank you for this! I was thinking of buying a carbon fiber S90V Yojumbo as a "user", and keeping my S30V Yojumbo sharp for its intended purpose as an SD knife. The blade is just so useful I want one to cut with, too. I was scared of it being chippy, though, and wanted to hear some feedback from someone who has used it.
 
Rockwelledge75 said:
Who knows but knife abuse is a thing, and some people feel they must use a cutting tool for doing the job of a crowbar lol. Which hey I guess you could get away with it if you were using something like Magnacut or 4v but there's really no need to be prying things with your blade, use a different tool for that!
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Hahaha. Very true.
 
DudeWayne84 said:
So, I’m curious, i3s it worth spending the extra $$$ for the carbon fiber handle? I was tempted, but went stock handle with s90v blade.
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You mean: is it worth it to you? We can't answer that one... only you can!
 
DudeWayne84 said:
So, I’m curious, is it worth spending the extra $$$ for the carbon fiber handle? I was tempted, but went stock handle with s90v blade.
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I'm going to say no. I ended up buying some titanium scales for it because I couldn't get the action and lockup correct. The scales fixed the issues and I still love the knife but I have to put it away for a bit to let my mind get over the frustration.
 
Hashishiin said:
Thank you for this! I was thinking of buying a carbon fiber S90V Yojumbo as a "user", and keeping my S30V Yojumbo sharp for its intended purpose as an SD knife. The blade is just so useful I want one to cut with, too. I was scared of it being chippy, though, and wanted to hear some feedback from someone who has used it.
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Forgive me if we discussed this in another thread but folding knives in general are pretty bad as far as defensive tools go. If guns are a 10/10 and fixed blades are a 5/10, folders are like a 2/10 at best and a lot of that is luck in what kind of defensive encounter it is. Relying on folders or investing in their use in an actual defensive encounter can actually do you more harm than good versus either another tool or going right to empty-handed steps.

That's the other thing. Carrying a dedicated SD knife for just SD in addition to a blade for utility sometimes feels like a waste. If it was a larger IWB fixed blade that you didn't want to take in and out of a sheath for mundane utility in public, I could understand. For a folder that you want to use for utility anyway, just use it. (Also, if Knife X is only a defensive tool that will only ever be used for defense, is high edge retention even relevant?)

I have limited use with S90V and S110V. Are they that much more chippy than S30V or M390? Some of that will depend on the individual knife, heat treatment, and the edge that happens to be on it. Some will depend on how you use it and what you cut. Do you have a good set-up for sharpening? Taking the time to mess with it and experiment will go a long way.
 
Chronovore said:
Forgive me if we discussed this in another thread but folding knives in general are pretty bad as far as defensive tools go. If guns are a 10/10 and fixed blades are a 5/10, folders are like a 2/10 at best and a lot of that is luck in what kind of defensive encounter it is. Relying on folders or investing in their use in an actual defensive encounter can actually do you more harm than good versus either another tool or going right to empty-handed steps.

That's the other thing. Carrying a dedicated SD knife for just SD in addition to a blade for utility sometimes feels like a waste. If it was a larger IWB fixed blade that you didn't want to take in and out of a sheath for mundane utility in public, I could understand. For a folder that you want to use for utility anyway, just use it. (Also, if Knife X is only a defensive tool that will only ever be used for defense, is high edge retention even relevant?)

I have limited use with S90V and S110V. Are they that much more chippy than S30V or M390? Some of that will depend on the individual knife, heat treatment, and the edge that happens to be on it. Some will depend on how you use it and what you cut. Do you have a good set-up for sharpening? Taking the time to mess with it and experiment will go a long way.
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No worries, mane. I don't know if we did either, ha. Oh, I would carry a gun and a fixed blade if I could. I'm currently living in a non-issue place. There's no way you're getting a permit as an average Joe. Once I move out of CA, hope this will change. Fixed blade laws are bad here, too. Renders anything that would be good, useless, and harder to get out than a waved folder which sometimes feels like I'm drawing a fixed blade, especially in sweatpants, oddly enough. I carry spray as well, and am trying to get the hang of drawing that best I can as I intend that to be my first line of defense if things are going bad. I also like to wear steel-toed boots. I would much prefer not to maim my attacker and lose one of my nice knives, if attacked.

I practice the wave lots, most every other night when I'm sitting around before taking a nighttime stroll. I just bought a wave for my Yojumbo, which was the main issue before, and have a wave on every other knife I may carry for defensive purposes which I am practiced in, and am getting more practiced at. About to get some trainers, as well. I intend to get some proper SD training, too. As for carrying too many knives, I switch up my roto regularly, and have been known to carry four "knives"... lol. A Leatherman Wingman (every day), a main knife like, say, a PM2, a lighter backup knife like a Douk-Douk, Opinel, Case or Mercator and an SD folder like waved Matriarch 2, Yojumbo, waved Yoj-style-Wharnie Endura, Voyager XL tanto, waved Espada XL..

Edge retention doesn't matter in a SD knife, that is why I'd keep the lesser S30V as the waved, defensive knife, whereas the S90V would be more of a dedicated user. This will change as my ability to sharpen improves and I can take a few swipes on whatever before I leave the house if I feel like it. I'm about to put in an order for a sharpmaker today, just to start maintaining my knives while I figure a good guided system to invest in.
 
Hashishiin said:
No worries, mane. I don't know if we did either, ha. Oh, I would carry a gun and a fixed blade if I could. I'm currently living in a non-issue place. There's no way you're getting a permit as an average Joe. Once I move out of CA, hope this will change. Fixed blade laws are bad here, too. Renders anything that would be good, useless, and harder to get out than a waved folder which sometimes feels like I'm drawing a fixed blade, especially in sweatpants, oddly enough. I carry spray as well, and am trying to get the hang of drawing that best I can as I intend that to be my first line of defense if things are going bad. I also like to wear steel-toed boots. I would much prefer not to maim my attacker and lose one of my nice knives, if attacked.

I practice the wave lots, most every other night when I'm sitting around before taking a nighttime stroll. I just bought a wave for my Yojumbo, which was the main issue before, and have a wave on every other knife I may carry for defensive purposes which I am practiced in, and am getting more practiced at. About to get some trainers, as well. I intend to get some proper SD training, too. As for carrying too many knives, I switch up my roto regularly, and have been known to carry four "knives"... lol. A Leatherman Wingman (every day), a main knife like, say, a PM2, a lighter backup knife like a Douk-Douk, Opinel, Case or Mercator and an SD folder like waved Matriarch 2, Yojumbo, waved Yoj-style-Wharnie Endura, Voyager XL tanto, waved Espada XL..

Edge retention doesn't matter in a SD knife, that is why I'd keep the lesser S30V as the waved, defensive knife, whereas the S90V would be more of a dedicated user. This will change as my ability to sharpen improves and I can take a few swipes on whatever before I leave the house if I feel like it. I'm about to put in an order for a sharpmaker today, just to start maintaining my knives while I figure a good guided system to invest in.
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Now I remember. You inspired me to look up the laws in CA and they were pretty bleak. There was something about a discretionary felony, where your future ability to buy a gun in other states will effectively be up to how the DA feels that day in CA. Shoplifting is all good but carry the wrong knife and they'll be all over you!

That seems to be a little-known fact about felonies and why more reform is needed: felons have their gun rights permanently violated in most places even after they "do the time". Becoming a felon is surprisingly easy in some places, such as forgetting that you had the wrong kind of knife in your pocket while crossing an invisible state line...

Moving will do a world of good. You also mentioned finding a good gym down the road, which would ultimately do you the most good now while you live in such an oppressive state.
 
Chronovore said:
Now I remember. You inspired me to look up the laws in CA and they were pretty bleak. There was something about a discretionary felony, where your future ability to buy a gun in other states will effectively be up to how the DA feels that day in CA. Shoplifting is all good but carry the wrong knife and they'll be all over you!

That seems to be a little-known fact about felonies and why more reform is needed: felons have their gun rights permanently violated in most places even after they "do the time". Becoming a felon is surprisingly easy in some places, such as forgetting that you had the wrong kind of knife in your pocket while crossing an invisible state line...

Moving will do a world of good. You also mentioned finding a good gym down the road, which would ultimately do you the most good now while you live in such an oppressive state.
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I was actually particularly worried about how CA laws affect other laws I think we have some weird stipulations that do not apply in other states about buying/owning firearms.

I cannot wait to get out of here. I am absolutely aware how easy it is for a normal person to become a felon like that. A lot of normal, otherwise law-abiding people are felons, just for what they had in their pockets, whether that be a capsule of something controlled, the wrong knife, the wrong gun. It's scary, how a pill or powder or an auto-knife can classify me with a person who would threaten others for their belongings, or people who'd do harm to others. That is wild. Odd comparison I know, but I just do not like that "I wanna know what's in that man's pocket" mentality.

Glad there's no folder length restrictions, and thank God they haven't figured out the unassuming Wave yet...
But yes, absolutely valuable advice you give here and I thank you for it.
 
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