M4 steel?

A lot of knife competitors use M4. I picked up a chefs knife from Big Chris and it cut me just looking at it :). I'll take M4 over most other steels all day long.
 
I am not sure that most of us mere mortals could tell the difference, but there is supposedly a fairly significant difference between regular "cast" M4 and the CPM M4 particle metallurgy variant. IIRC, you see the difference primarily in great impact toughness in addition to the crazy abrasion resistance and it probably takes an even finer edge. That is what the pro cutting comp guys use.
 
You need to try 3V.
There is no compromise with this stuff.

Every other steel I have ever used had some compromise, except 3V.


3V is not a stainless, but has zero issues with corrosion in normal use.
I have never treated it any different in care than any other steel.

It's really messed me up, I have a hard time using anything else now.
 
JR88FAN said:
You need to try 3V.
There is no compromise with this stuff.

Every other steel I have ever used had some compromise, except 3V.


3V is not a stainless, but has zero issues with corrosion in normal use.
I have never treated it any different in care than any other steel.

It's really messed me up, I have a hard time using anything else now.
Click to expand...

If you like 3v you have to try PD1. I just took delivery on a custom Calavera Cutlery El Patron in PD1 and he switched to it from 3v for his standard steel, because it outperformed 3v in his testing.
 
Popsickle said:
If you like 3v you have to try PD1. I just took delivery on a custom Calavera Cutlery El Patron in PD1 and he switched to it from 3v for his standard steel, because it outperformed 3v in his testing.
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I am currently using an El Patron in 3V, great taste in knives man!
PD1 compares more to CruWear than 3V, another really good steal.

I have a good understanding of 3V, I have been using exclusively for about 6 months now. I will keep the insane toughness of 3V for when I am using my knife for something I shouldn't, like prying.

Just to set the record straight, I do like M4, I used a GB for a long time....

I wish more knives where made available in both steels.
 
JR88FAN said:
I am currently using an El Patron in 3V, great taste in knives man!
PD1 compares more to CruWear than 3V, another really good steal.

I have a good understanding of 3V, I have been using exclusively for about 6 months now. I will keep the insane toughness of 3V for when I am using my knife for something I shouldn't, like prying.

Just to set the record straight, I do like M4, I used a GB for a long time....

I wish more knives where made available in both steels.
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Hah! Jeremy makes a kickass knife!

3v was derived from cruwear/vascowear ;)

I also used a GB for a long time and i Love M4. The Gayle Bradley is the best production bang for your buck out there.

I agree.... nore makers and knife companies should be using 3v pd1 m4, etc
 
While we are getting off the subject of M4 steel. Here is a funny video about one of my favorite knives and steels, Delica with ZDP-189. It is an incredibly hard steel. I'm not giving up my EDC Gayle Bradley or my D2 composite Kershaw leek, but I have used ZDP-189 years ago with a Spyderco Caly and it was great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CuFMgCU31g
 
GatorFlash1 said:
While we are getting off the subject of M4 steel. Here is a funny video about one of my favorite knives and steels, Delica with ZDP-189. It is an incredibly hard steel. I'm not giving up my EDC Gayle Bradley or my D2 composite Kershaw leek, but I have used ZDP-189 years ago with a Spyderco Caly and it was great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CuFMgCU31g
Click to expand...

The off-topic part was my fault. I will leave this thread alone, and apologize. M4 is an excellent steel, and like I stated above, more production and custom knives need to be made with it.
 
In regards to CPM M4 vs CPM 3V, here's crucible's data sheet for 3V.

I use my blade(s) very hard and have broke a few. Obviously, I would rather my blade dull than break, since the broken one becomes useless. So... blade toughness is my 1st priority, edge retention second, corrosion resistance last.
The question is, how tough is tough enough?

The m2 blade I've used for the last 15 years has been thoroughly abused, by most peoples standards, with alot of prying, twisting, and hammering. It's been dropped to concrete floors, once from 30 feet and landing on the tip, leaving a fairly deep gouge in the floor, with just a little chipping of the edge.

From my experience with m2, and m4 being much tougher and wear resistant than m2, I have my answer.

3v shows to be very very tough, which relates to impact/chipping/cracking/breakage resistance, but shows wear resistance (edge retention)at the D2 level, lower than m4, or even m2.

With the above in mind, and according to crucible data sheet, m4 should have better edge retention with identically ground blades and same hardness HT. 3v would be tougher, but m4 toughness is already so high, not sure how much that characteristic would really matter, unless you were doing some extreme prying, or whacking it with a hammer.

Another point is, 3v appears to have a max working hardness of 61-62, while m4 is taken up to 65.

3v would no doubt be one of those forever blades with almost no chance of ever breaking it, but I think m4 falls into that category also, to a lesser degree, with better edge retention.

http://www.crucible.com/PDFs//DataSheets2010/ds3Vv1 2010.pdf
 
jpm2 said:
In regards to CPM M4 vs CPM 3V, here's crucible's data sheet for 3V.

I use my blade(s) very hard and have broke a few. Obviously, I would rather my blade dull than break, since the broken one becomes useless. So... blade toughness is my 1st priority, edge retention second, corrosion resistance last.
The question is, how tough is tough enough?

The m2 blade I've used for the last 15 years has been thoroughly abused, by most peoples standards, with alot of prying, twisting, and hammering. It's been dropped to concrete floors, once from 30 feet and landing on the tip, leaving a fairly deep gouge in the floor, with just a little chipping of the edge.

From my experience with m2, and m4 being much tougher and wear resistant than m2, I have my answer.

3v shows to be very very tough, which relates to impact/chipping/cracking/breakage resistance, but shows wear resistance (edge retention)at the D2 level, lower than m4, or even m2.

With the above in mind, and according to crucible data sheet, m4 should have better edge retention with identically ground blades and same hardness HT. 3v would be tougher, but m4 toughness is already so high, not sure how much that characteristic would really matter, unless you were doing some extreme prying, or whacking it with a hammer.

Another point is, 3v appears to have a max working hardness of 61-62, while m4 is taken up to 65.

3v would no doubt be one of those forever blades with almost no chance of ever breaking it, but I think m4 falls into that category also, to a lesser degree, with better edge retention.

http://www.crucible.com/PDFs//DataSheets2010/ds3Vv1 2010.pdf
Click to expand...

Ive broken an m4 blade, but never a 3v or PD1
 
JR88FAN said:
The off-topic part was my fault. I will leave this thread alone, and apologize. M4 is an excellent steel, and like I stated above, more production and custom knives need to be made with it.
Click to expand...

Why leave the thread alone? It was just getting interesting lol
 
The difference with 3v is that you can actually finish by hand up to a certain point. The skinny on CPM M4 is that you had better get it where yo want it before you harden because a "machine finish" is about all you will be able to do afterwards. I will admit that I use EDM stones to finish 3V and Cru Forge V, but it can be done on both. That means that while even at 60, 3V is still like 30% tougher than A2 at its optimum hardness and has wear resistance at least as good as D2 and maybe closer to S30V, you can still sharpen it on normal gear. I do a hand rubbed 320-400 grit finish on the stuff and because it dulls the sapper, you end up with something that actually may look a little finer because you have polished the rigges of those fine strateches for a lack of a better way of describing it. Some people have start checking out Z Wear from Zapp which apparently has better wear resistance than 3V but may have better impact resistance a bit better than the higher carbon and higher hardness steel like the almost identical CPM 4V and Vanadls 4 E. Kind of a Goldilocks steel. I may have this wrong, but i think I heard somewhat say that it is esssntially a rather improved version of the Cru Wear type steel and has a carbon content in between the .8 or so of 3V and the 1.3-1.4% of the "4 series" steels. it will be interesting to see how it tests out.
 
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