M4 vs S90 which has better all around edge retention ?

[Outdoors Fanatic]

Seems like every new generation of blade steel that comes out, threads like these get started. I've yet to see any real, practical, in your pocket experience that proves that in every day use, any of these whizbang magic wonder steels have any real advantages over one another. Marketing at it's finest.

-Freq

It's called metallurgy technology, which is the science of combining different alloys and metals to obtain desirable or improved properties, that's Chemistry at its finest, not marketing. If you think newer tech in steels have no real advantages over older steels, I think you are in the wrong forum. Yes, some cheasy knife companies claim ridiculous stuff (I won't name names), but I am talking about the steel R&D industries here.

 

[ginaz]

i think what he's saying is that the differences between s30v and s90v (for example) are so small that for the general user they are undetectable and it's a function of marketing that we lust and strive so hard for the latest and greatest.

 

[singularity35]

i think what he's saying is that the differences between s30v and s90v (for example) are so small that for the general user they are undetectable and it's a function of marketing that we lust and strive so hard for the latest and greatest.

I think it's more like most users don't push the capacities of the steels enough to notice the difference. Probably a good analogy is cars. If you just drive around at 40 miles per hour you probably wouldn't notice the difference between a Toyota and a Ferrari.

 

[Jason B.]

To bring it back to shaving all I had to do was touch up the edge a bit. By that I mean, I steeled the edge then polished it on a ceramic rod. The blade was still sharp enough for cutting purposes before I did that.

I have a thread in the Spyderco forum talking about the uses I have put this knife to. The only thing I have done to do any noticeable (visible) damage to the edge was when I used it to pry carpet staples out of some floor sheathing, and that was because I used poor technique.

Andy

And that's why I recommended it over the others, can take a beating and be brought back with a ceramic rod. :thumbup:

 

[The Mastiff]

I can sure tell the difference between S30V and S90V. Both cutting ( when I'm doing more than opening a letter like breaking down boxes, etc.) and sharpening ( DMT's and Norton Crystlon). And CPM M4,ZDP, VG10, 52100, super blue, O-1, 440C, etc. These I use the most and recognize them especially when putting them to a stone. They all have some differences that are pretty obvious if you're paying attention and some, such as ZDP are particular about technique if you are looking for maximum performance at low angles, or are trying to just avoid burring and don't want to grind away too much steel( which takes time).

Some newer ones like Elmax and 390P have been pretty surprising when I see how easy they sharpen, and how clean they are which shows up on the edges compared to how wear resistant they are. The older ingot steels that had good wear resistance through carbides and hardness like D2 and BG42 made themselves known when sharpening them. they could be stubborn.

So, I'd say that statements like this one quoted below may apply to some, but they sure don't mirror my experience with the newer steels compared to older, PM vs. ingot, "super steel" vs. "old standard", etc.

Seems like every new generation of blade steel that comes out, threads like these get started. I've yet to see any real, practical, in your pocket experience that proves that in every day use, any of these whizbang magic wonder steels have any real advantages over one another. Marketing at it's finest.

-Freq

 

[Ankerson]

Seems like every new generation of blade steel that comes out, threads like these get started. I've yet to see any real, practical, in your pocket experience that proves that in every day use, any of these whizbang magic wonder steels have any real advantages over one another. Marketing at it's finest.

-Freq

If you are talking about normal use like a flip toy, pocket ornament, fingernail cleaner, and letter opener then they wouldn't notice the difference between AUS-4 and S110V if the blades weren't marked.

Now for those who really do USE THEIR KNIVES then yes there would be a noticeable difference. :thumbup:

Most people who really use their knives aren't here on BF and they are using steels like 420HC and Mystery Steels, give some of those people a knife in S90V and let them use it for awhile and it would blow their minds. Now they likely wouldn't be able to sharpen it though using what MOST people generally use to sharpen knives.

 

[hardheart]

At the discussed hardnesses, CPM M4 beats out S90V in toughness at about 1.5:1, while S90V beats CPM M4 in wear by about 2:1. CPM M4 also can corrode on you much more readily than S90V. Carbide tearout probably isn't much difference. Really depends on your use and care.

Got a 15V custom on order, which would be like 3:1 in favor of CPM M4 for toughness and around the same in favor of 15V for wear, talk about a difference.

 

[Ankerson]

CPM M4 beats out S90V in toughness at about 1.5:1, while S90V beats CPM M4 in wear by about 2:1. CPM M4 also can corrode on you much more readily than S90V. Really depends on your use and care.

Got a 15V custom on order, which would be like 3:1 in favor of CPM M4 for toughness and around the same in favor of 15V for wear, talk about a difference.

Now you know some of us will want to hear all about that 15V blade once you get it.

All the details.

 

[gabsliceoflife]

i think what he's saying is that the differences between s30v and s90v (for example) are so small that for the general user they are undetectable and it's a function of marketing that we lust and strive so hard for the latest and greatest.

The problem is that when you say everyday use it is never the same. You may think you are cutting the same stuff, but it is not the same amount of cuts or same stuff. I have noticed differences in those and other steel even small ones.

 

[djdawg]

Ive only used one knife hard core , that was a ZDP189 endura ............I was surprised at how well it held its edge , even it it did get dull.
Cuttin foam insulation , its VERY abrasive and ZDP held up nicely .