MAD DOG Update #4?

M

Mike Turber

Joined
Oct 2, 1998
Messages
5,461
OK Here are the facts up to this point in a nutshell:
  • We tested a Mad Dog ATAK knife.
  • Mad Dog says it was a defective/stolen knife in an email to another member here.
  • The member asks Mclung if he can share the info with me.
  • I obviously can't sit on the info and make it public.
  • Mrs. Mad Dog then says it is possibly a shop knife.
  • Spark and I talk to StreetPro's Tim and Bill (A Mad Dog dealer) and find out that the knife is probably about 8 or 9 years old.
The below is a quote from Mrs. Mad Dog.
I have written off our substantial losses, but filed every piece of dated documentation to prove that stolen product was shipped out regularly between August of 1997 and January of 1998.
Click to expand...

So what is our knife now? How much more fair can we be in handling this situation?

We have agreed to test another ATAK (Brand New this time)
My wife Lori says we should send back the blade and have it rehandled as it is getting more and more obvious that this knife is in fact a REAL MAD DOG ATAK!

I will even pay for it! How much does a new handle cost? Why is this so damn difficult to figure out? AARRRRRRGGGGGGG.....

Why are we the ones making all the offers on how to solve this?

If they don't accept my last offer then what does this say about Mad Dog's customer service?

They can even mark the knife in such a way that it can never come back for warranty repair if they like but I am sure that the actuall owner would like a new handle at least and I am willing to pay for it.

Any other suggestions?


------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com
www.gigandknives.com
www.macedirect.com
www.dragon-forge.com
The above sites are pure shamless plugs!


[This message has been edited by Mike Turber (edited 06 November 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Mike Turber (edited 06 November 1999).]
 
Mike,
I think you've made a pretty fair summary of things. I see lots of evidence mentioned in your post that the knife is probably a stolen reject, so what exactly is making it so obvious that the knife is real? Or did you mean a real "shop" knife?

And what reason would Mad Dog have to legitimize this whole circus by doing business in good faith with you when you've been presiding enthusiasticly over a trashing of his integrity and his knives for the last two days?

Just curious.



[This message has been edited by Steve Harvey (edited 06 November 1999).]
 
Steve, I can see 2 options here.

1. Either the knife is a Real Deal ATAK that's 3-9 years old or
2. It's a reject or shop knife that was finished, smuggled out and sold to a Mad Dog dealer, in a period strecthing from 3-9 years ago now.

Keep in mind that the only way that we know that it was a reject is because of the notches suppossedly making it so. Yet, we've also heard from Nam that he saw similar notches on his knife when he took the handle off. Which means that there quite possibly a ton of fake or reject Mad Dog knives out there, unless you think that we got the only 2 and just happened to be the only ones that cut off the handles. Pretty big coincidence.

Either way, we want the test results to show an accurate representation of a Mad Dog knife. If he has stolen / reject / knife problems, then it's up to him to fix them, but if they have been going on for years I'd take a hard look at changing what he's doing, because it obviously isn't working. If those notches represent a bad knife, that is. All bets are off it they don't mean squat.

Anyhow, the fact remains: We didn't question the validity of the knife, because it has everything a Mad Dog knife should. It's only after the handle was destroy that the questions were raised, and that just happened to expose a bigger problem. The key is to see how the problem is handled: it can either be fixed, or it can be made worse.

Spark
 
Steve,

What I meant was simply this. The last word we now have is that the knife may in fact be a shop knife that some how made it into Mad Dog's distribution channels. I can buy that. Now he needs to correct an obvious mistake. Do you see it differently than I?

Who is trashing his integrity? Who trashed who's first? Give me a break Steve, and think about what you are saying before you say it.

I just want the truth and it looks like I have to jump through 50 hoops to get to it. I don't see his integrity being trashed over here nearly as much as I see mine being trashed over there. You don't see me crying over that do you?

And look in the mirror Steve and tell me what the following means?
Pres in VA,

I understand the emotion behind your post, but lets please stick to the facts under examination. I myself have been critical of some of Mike and Spark's statements about this issue, but they are still fellow knife nuts. If there weren't people with an irrational dislike of Mad Dog knives, who would we have to flame?
wink.gif
Click to expand...

Is this a case of the pot calling the kettle black or is there some other meaning to your above statement. If the latter who are you talking about or was that just a general statement.

Anyone can defend Mad Dog and I won't censor or delete anything.

Remember I was the one called a "LIAR" and that my testing was "IDIOTIC" and "BIASED". These are Mad Dog's words not mine. No big deal as it was in an email to another member. I report the truth and base my statements on facts not diatribe.

You say
And what reason would Mad Dog have to legitimize this whole circus by doing business in good faith with you when you've been presiding enthusiasticly over a trashing of his integrity and his knives for the last two days?
Click to expand...

Simple Steve,

Because that would be the RIGHT thing to do in this case. And it would be the right BUSINESS decision.

And I even stated that the owner is willing to say screw it and walk away.

Why would he do that?
Simple again; BECAUSE IT AINT WORTH IT!

Every Time A Mad Dog Knife is called into question the troops run in to fight the battle for him. I have not seen this in any other manufacturers customers and this why everyone finds this whole thing so amusing.

Mad Dog claims this knife to be a fake, and he bases this entire argument on this "notch" theory. If this knife is proven to be REAL then what happens? What will you say then Steve?

I have already promised Mad Dog that if this turns out to be a fake I will remove the knife from the tests and make a public apology even though it would in no way be my fault. I have even agreed to remove the knife because of it's obvious age.

What more do you want me to do man?

------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com
www.gigandknives.com
www.macedirect.com
www.dragon-forge.com
The above sites are pure shamless plugs!
 
why is there so much controversy with this individual...all the time?????? answer me that!
 
Also Steve, I am not enthusiastically letting this happen. I reported the truth and the threads have now taken their own life. I asked people over here to stick to the facts, as you have done over there. Again what more do you what me to do? Delete posts? Edit them? Ban anyone who says anything about Mad Dog? Hummm. WE DON'T DO THAT HERE!

As I always say don't bring me a problem without a possible solution.

Also I say Do It, Do It Right, And Do IT Right Now. Should I have waited to reveal the information that the knife was a possible fake? Ya that would be really funny because then Mad Dog would make his statement first sometime down the road and say i was sitting on the information and that would really call my integrity into question, would it not?

------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com
www.gigandknives.com
www.macedirect.com
www.dragon-forge.com
The above sites are pure shamless plugs!


[This message has been edited by Mike Turber (edited 06 November 1999).]
 
We have all, <EM>ad nauseum et ad tedium</EM>, heard the saying "Put up or shut up." And most of us take it to have some binding quality, upon us, and in our interpretations of others.

Some people, however, on the one hand do not feel bound by it, and on ther other hand exploit its effect on our interpretation of them. When they <EM>cannot</EM> put up, they definitely <EM>will not</EM> shut up.

In this case, putting up, for Mike and Spark, was exactly the testing and analysis that they conducted and presented.

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It's always Dark. Light only hides the Darkness.

 
Well, I certainly can't say there isn't room here for contraversy and arguement anymore.

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Regards,
Ron Knight

Yeah I'm crazy, but what do you want me to do about it

[This message has been edited by RKnight (edited 06 November 1999).]
 
You know, I really could not care less. I have been listening to the Busse vs. MAD DOG crap since recdotknives. As a matter of fact, that was what got knifeforums.com started in the first place which then led to Mike and Spark creating this place. I love it here, but I am getting sick and tired of the SOS about Kevin Mclung. From now on, I will not even read any thread that even mentions MAD DOG knives in the title.
 
Mike,

I hate going point to point with you. I don't want to give the impression that I have any animosity towards you. I value your existence as a fellow knife nut, and I want to continue to do so after this episode is over. So, though I stand behind my opinions, I say enough from me.

My interest was only to point out unreasonable criticisms of both Kevin McClung and Mad Dog knives, not that Kevin needs me for that. I would do the same for any number of knife makers if their integrity was unfairly attacked, and yours too, as I have repeatedly done. But their's isn't and Mad Dog's repeatedly is. The rest has just been debate for me, and that, has reached the point of no joy.

[This message has been edited by Steve Harvey (edited 06 November 1999).]
 
I must admit that I'm a bit baffled here. The knife did well on the test, although other, less expensive knives, did better. What more is there to say?

Some are saying that the knife was a shop knife and/or stolen. So what? Doesn't anyone realize what a totally ridiculous excuse that is?

Say some crash testers test a GM car and find a design flaw. Can you imagine what would happen if GM said, "Oh. That's not a real GM car. That car was stolen from our factory. It might have been a car that the factory owner drove around for personal use." The press would laugh their heads off.

Now the crash testers say, "Umm....Ok. So can you give us a 'real' GM car for our tests?" Of course, GM says no.

Geez Louise. What a joke.
 
Steve,

Are you kidding?

My interest was only to point out unreasonable criticisms of both Kevin McClung and Mad Dog knives, not that Kevin needs me for that. I would do the same for any number of knife makers if their integrity was unfairly attacked, and yours too, as I have repeatedly done. But their's isn't and Mad Dog's repeatedly is. The rest has just been debate for me, and that, has reached the point of no joy.
Click to expand...

I have no joy on my bogey Steve!
Sorry Air Force talk.

Unreasonable criticisms?
Point me to one, please!
Please support your argument here Steve as I do not wish to go point to point either but you keep bringing up this stuff with no supportive evidence.


Mad Dog brings all of this on himself, it is not the otherway around. Even Mad Dog said that. It is Mad Dog who attacks anyone who questions him or his products. To bad I can't link to old posts to prove my point as they are now gone.

Hummm. Maybe I should post the entire series of emails that I have where Mad Dog says a whole bunch of crap.

What would that proove?

Nothing but that which we already know!

This is getting silly. I am going to watch a movie filled with real DRAMA, as this episode I am watching here, is getting to predicable.

Be back in a few hours
smile.gif


------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com
www.gigandknives.com
www.macedirect.com
www.dragon-forge.com
The above sites are pure shamless plugs!


[This message has been edited by Mike Turber (edited 06 November 1999).]
 
Nope. Um, mmm. If anybody wants the answers to those questions they will have to go back and read the threads and draw their own conclusions. My points of contention are clearly marked by the location of my posts.
 
To Tom Mayo. Have you ever heard the saying, the only bad press is no press? I think MD should thank Mike for keeping his name and knives in the mind of all us knife freeks.
 
Mike,

You have shown that your testing was conducted and presented in a fair and evenhanded manner. And it is clear at least to me that some of Mad Dog statements, particularly the implication by Mrs. McClung that there may be Fakes/Defective/Forgeries on the market which are undesernable from the genuine article, have been rash and ill advised. I would suggest however, that we are not here to persecute Mr. McClung, nor to damage his business and reputation.

I would respectfully ask that we limit our discussion to the scope and validity of the testing methodology and that we refrain from making further commentary beyond that specific scope.

You have presented and made a resonable and professional discussion on the issue. It is time to show Mr. McClung a level of respect worthy of a fellow knife enthusiats who has made a significant contribution to this industry and our hobby.

You and the fellow members of this forum have respectfully raised and advised fellow members of significant concerns with the ATAK knife. Please give the members time to draw their own conclusions, and give Mr. McClung time to decide how he wishes to respond.

Lets open the floor to constructive criticism and close it to unproductive bickering.

 
Agreed but I still have to answer questions
smile.gif
If I don't answer them promptly then it makes me look like I am hiding something.

That is why I called Steve to the plate. Complaints are made without substance.

Look at my posts. I always point to evidence.
All I ask is that in all fairness the same be done in kind.

Now back to the facts.

------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com
www.gigandknives.com
www.macedirect.com
www.dragon-forge.com
The above sites are pure shamless plugs!
 
Notice how "Mrs. Mad Dog" didn't pop up until the $hit hit the fan? Is Mad Dog hiding behind his wife? I'd hope not. It doesn't effect me directly so I don't want to stir the pot, but it did seem kinda wierd. I mean, even Les DeAsis or Mel Pardue would have addressed this issue by now.
wink.gif
It's all too fishy. Any reputable "maker" would offer some kind of explination and try to correct the issue. What a crock! -AR

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- AKTI Member ID# A000322

- Intelligent men, unfortunately, learn from fools, more often than fools learn from intelligent men.


 
Jackyl,

I noticed the exact same thing but was afraid to bring it up. I'm glad you're the one who said it first
smile.gif


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"A knifeless man is a lifeless man"
-Nordic proverb

 
Damn!!! I hate when that happens.
wink.gif
-AR

------------------
- AKTI Member ID# A000322

- Intelligent men, unfortunately, learn from fools, more often than fools learn from intelligent men.


 
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