"Made in Sheffield" 1830-1930, A golden age ?

[glennbad]

Joseph Rodgers & Sons Sheffield, England. 2 7/8in Boys knife c.1891-99.

The difference in cover colors is interesting. I wonder if the show side has seen more sun, or if they were married like this.

That is quite the contrast. Wonderful old knife, thanks for sharing it!

 

[Hatchet_Jack]

Thanks !

Here's another

That may just be my new favourite knife I’ve ever seen! What a beauty

 

[Campbellclanman]

I agree ^^ That Knife of Steve's is a beauty for sure!

 

[r8shell]

I was lucky enough to win a copy of G.Tweedale's Directory of Sheffield Cutlery Manufacturers in danno50 's most generous giveaway. In a case of perfect timing, the day after the book arrived, this Jonathan Crookes penknife came from the big auction site. It could be ivory, but I'm really not sure about that. I'm not even absolutely sure if it's authentic.

Now I have a couple of questions.

Tweedale says that there was a Jonathan Crookes, a maker of pocket and penknives (with his heart and pistol mark) in directories in the late 1700s.
There was another Jonathan Crookes, who may have been the grandson of the first. He began business in 1828 and the firm continued manufacturing until 1896. The Crookes mark was sold and continued to be stamped on knives well into the 20th century.

I took some photos to compare the tang stamps with my two other examples: a wood handled Jack Knife, and an ink eraser.

I would describe the stamp on the ink eraser as the "cleanest" The serif font looks clearer and the spacing of letters more even. I also note the Sheffield England stamp on the back of the penknife's main blade. I wonder if this would indicate it was made during the later period.

I have another question I'll pose later, once I've managed to get a few photos in focus.

 

[Jack Black]

Lovely examples Rachel.- look at you with all the Sheffield knives! I reckon your Penknife is genuine, and that those covers are ivory. All 3 knives are beautiful by the way

 

[r8shell]

Lovely examples Rachel.- look at you with all the Sheffield knives! I reckon your Penknife is genuine, and that those covers are ivory. All 3 knives are beautiful by the way

Thanks, Jack. It is a snappy little knife.

Here's something interesting I noticed while inspecting it & oiling the joints. It has brass liners and what I assume are nickel bolsters. But if I look at the top edge end of the bolsters, I can't see the brass. It looks as if the silver colored nickel is burnished over the ends of the yellow brass liners. The Crookes Jack knife does the same thing, though I'd never noticed it before.

I don't know if I'm describing it clearly, and hope some photos will help:

I looked at some other knives I've got piled on the desk, and this old Lockwood Brothers that you sent me might have the same thing going on, but it's harder to tell. since the bolsters have a brassier hue and are pretty dinged up.

I don't think I've ever noticed this on German or American cutlery. Is it an old Sheffield style? Maybe it's a common thing that I've never noticed before and am just getting foggy headed?

 

[Jack Black]

Thanks, Jack. It is a snappy little knife.

Here's something interesting I noticed while inspecting it & oiling the joints. It has brass liners and what I assume are nickel bolsters. But if I look at the top edge end of the bolsters, I can't see the brass. It looks as if the silver colored nickel is burnished over the ends of the yellow brass liners. The Crookes Jack knife does the same thing, though I'd never noticed it before.

I don't know if I'm describing it clearly, and hope some photos will help:

I looked at some other knives I've got piled on the desk, and this old Lockwood Brothers that you sent me might have the same thing going on, but it's harder to tell. since the bolsters have a brassier hue and are pretty dinged up.

I don't think I've ever noticed this on German or American cutlery. Is it an old Sheffield style? Maybe it's a common thing that I've never noticed before and am just getting foggy headed?

That is really interesting Rachel, I suspect I have lot of knives the same, but it's a detail I've never noticed! It's late here, but I'll try to remember to get a box of penknives out tomorrow, and have a look. Thank you for taking the pics, and for your keen eye

 

[Campbellclanman]

Gorgeous knives R8Shell - as per usual.
The Nickel Silver Bolsters most probably had a recess of where the Brass Liner sat into to allow a full featured Bolster rather than the Bolster being being burnished over, an possibly with wear over the years of the edge of the Bolster may wear down to expose a slither of the Brass liner?

Man I love that Crookes Tang stamp- always have. Thank you R8shell.

 

[wlfryjr]

Lyle, as you may know, I have written several books on knives and well over 50 articles for Knife Magazine. I don’t state this to boast, rather to suggest that I strive for proper evidence and facts as anyone should. And the facts simply don’t support your idea of “pressed stag” which is actually bone. Pressed horn has existed for a millennia with a great amount of evidence supporting it. But there is basically nothing claiming that pressed stag (bone) was ever done in a practical form. The reason I cited those other respected collectors was to show that this is not just my opinion.

I really don’t care what you call it on your own, but when you continue to use that term in public as if it was fact does the collecting community a disservice, especially for new collectors. A while back, Phil Collins (of the rock group “Genesis”) donated a large collection of Bowie knives to the Alamo museum. Mark, the publisher of Knife Magazine, knew that many of those knives were not authentic, but said nothing as long as they were in a private collection. But once they became part of a museum display for the public to see, Mark took it upon himself to contact the museum to try and set the record straight on what was real and what was not.

Setting the record straight on “pressed stag” is certainly a small thing compared to the Bowie knives at the Alamo museum, but something that should be corrected none the less. It might be hard for you to accept that stag came in such a vast assortment of shapes and textures, but I can assure you that what you think of as “pressed stag” is just a fine composition of genuine stag. Certainly there were deer from well over 100 years ago that don’t exist today with antlers that are also not currently found. And obviously, deer from different parts of the world had different types of antlers. Scientific analysis of what you think is “pressed stag” will only confirm that it is real stag, not that it was “pressed”. Or maybe by analyzing what you think is “pressed stag” will actually turn out to be “pressed horn”.

So many beautiful farmer’s jacks. Here’s my two.
View attachment 2865749

Here is an article by Joan Unwin the premier authority on Sheffield handle material. She has written a book on the subject and states, even showing a bone press with the "pressed stag" design , that bone was softened and pressed to mimic stag. ie "pressed stag"

Knife handle making – the subsidiary trades in the Sheffield cutler...

Background For centuries, the Sheffield area in the north of England has produced ferrous metal goods, notably knives and edge tools. By the early XVIIth century, the majority of its inhabitants we...

doi.org

 

[r8shell]

Gorgeous knives R8Shell - as per usual.
The Nickel Silver Bolsters most probably had a recess of where the Brass Liner sat into to allow a full featured Bolster rather than the Bolster being being burnished over, an possibly with wear over the years of the edge of the Bolster may wear down to expose a slither of the Brass liner?

Man I love that Crookes Tang stamp- always have. Thank you R8shell.

Thanks, Duncan. There are a few old stamps I can't resist throwing a bid on.

That's a good theory about possibly recessed bolsters. This weekend, I'll try to get a closer look at the inside of the liners above the pivot. There's still a lot of gunk to clean out, and maybe I can rub a small area of the inside of the bolster with a little polishing compound on a toothpick. Of course I don't want to over-buff these old treasures.

 

[Jack Black]

Man I love that Crookes Tang stamp- always have.

Same here, one of my favourites

 

[SteveC]

Here is an article by Joan Unwin the premier authority on Sheffield handle material. She has written a book on the subject and states, even showing a bone press with the "pressed stag" design , that bone was softened and pressed to mimic stag. ie "pressed stag"

Knife handle making – the subsidiary trades in the Sheffield cutler...

Background For centuries, the Sheffield area in the north of England has produced ferrous metal goods, notably knives and edge tools. By the early XVIIth century, the majority of its inhabitants we...

doi.org

Very interesting, thanks for posting

 

[lambertiana]

I was lucky enough to win a copy of G.Tweedale's Directory of Sheffield Cutlery Manufacturers in danno50 's most generous giveaway. In a case of perfect timing, the day after the book arrived, this Jonathan Crookes penknife came from the big auction site. It could be ivory, but I'm really not sure about that. I'm not even absolutely sure if it's authentic.

Now I have a couple of questions.

Tweedale says that there was a Jonathan Crookes, a maker of pocket and penknives (with his heart and pistol mark) in directories in the late 1700s.
There was another Jonathan Crookes, who may have been the grandson of the first. He began business in 1828 and the firm continued manufacturing until 1896. The Crookes mark was sold and continued to be stamped on knives well into the 20th century.

I took some photos to compare the tang stamps with my two other examples: a wood handled Jack Knife, and an ink eraser.

I would describe the stamp on the ink eraser as the "cleanest" The serif font looks clearer and the spacing of letters more even. I also note the Sheffield England stamp on the back of the penknife's main blade. I wonder if this would indicate it was made during the later period.

I have another question I'll pose later, once I've managed to get a few photos in focus.

England in the tang stamp indicates 1891 or later.

 

[r8shell]

England in the tang stamp indicates 1891 or later.

Thanks, that was my suspicion.

 

[Will Power]

r8shell That set me thinking about bolsters too. Sure enough, this Nowill Equal End 4 blade (2 busted off nubs) shows the same characteristic. A kind of 'hooded' or shrouded bolster. This knife is late c19th early c20th.

Why I can only guess, perhaps bolsters arrived at work-benches unfinished or overlarge to fit various sizes, then pressed into the correct shape? However it is a thin covering as wear reveals the brass underneath near the springs or perhaps wasn't finished exactly?

 

[Hatchet_Jack]

More astounding treasure. The Horn on the Swayback is extraordinary , what is that pattern 3rd down please with the long Spear? Anglo-Saxon? As for the Barehead Spear with Rat-Tail and Stag, this is what this thread should be about, Golden indeed.

Early on in the thread some contributors mooted the possibility of a different race of Stag for the exemplary Antler of the age. Parallel with the specialist skills in hafting and bending. Select Deer Parks in India whose inhabitants may have vanished leaving no descendants with the same antler traits. Chital Deer were mentioned together with Sambar & Scottish Red Deer. Somebody noted that some of it is close together in bark texture, which Bonestag tried to emulate, quite unlike Grooved or Popcorn -beautiful as they are. Possibly the origins of Pressed Stag?

View attachment 2781441

I don't know much about knives but I do know deer.

I've put up various photo's of different species and their similarities/differences. The antler structure and basic composition does not change. Asiatic deer all have similar antler structure whether that be hog deer (axis porcinus), chital (axis axis), sambar (rusa unicolor) or Rusa (rusa timorensis). I know specifically about these species as I have them at home. They all have the distinctive ridges and valleys throughout much of the main beam with the exception of the base of the antler where the coronets form up and pearling can develop. Chital I would describe as a poor man's sambar. It shares the ridges and valleys of sambar but is much less pronounced.

European deer similarly have traits that are distinguishable, whether that's red stag (cervus elaphus) or fallow (dama dama). Related species such as Sika (cervus nippon) which are native to China and Japan share the characteristics of other european deer. I've only seen a few elk antlers and do not any in my possession but they are also very similar to red deer of which they're closely related. I can't remember the species name of elk but they're also in the cervus genus. They typically have what is often referred to as "popcorn" in the knife community. In reality it's effectively pearling that covers most of the antler. The exception to this is on the underside of the main beam from the brow to the bez or trez tine (at least in reds and fallow) which can be more of a linear ridge and valley type style but much less pronounced than the asiatic species.

After my lifetime of collecting, handling and being around thousands of sets of antlers that knife looks off to me. It may be some quirky red stag but the only part of the antler that looks similar to that is where the tops branch out. On that point, I've never seen any large enough to make a knife.

The first piece is what I’m referring to.



This is three species of deer.


Edit: I will add fallow can be quirky but are not really suitable for knives as they're pithy and because they have paddles like moose there isn't a lot of usable material. I'm sure it's been done at a custom level but it wouldn't be scalable or efficient at a commercial level.

 

[Trubetzkoy]

Here is an article by Joan Unwin the premier authority on Sheffield handle material. She has written a book on the subject and states, even showing a bone press with the "pressed stag" design , that bone was softened and pressed to mimic stag. ie "pressed stag"

Knife handle making – the subsidiary trades in the Sheffield cutler...

Background For centuries, the Sheffield area in the north of England has produced ferrous metal goods, notably knives and edge tools. By the early XVIIth century, the majority of its inhabitants we...

doi.org

Thanks for sharing this -- super interesting read. If you ever have the time and interest, a separate thread focusing on pressed stuff (horn, bone, antler) would be great. I'm particularly interested in what you mentioned previously about the distinct patterns of pressed antler and its particular way of aging (losing pigmentation and becoming thinner, if I recall correctly).

 

[Campbellclanman]

I have had a few arrivals - nothing as spectacular as Herders Allen Sportsman, mind you I could chip in $20 or so if Herder wants to do a trade and pocket a cool 20 on one of these, Herder get your people to call my people Sir.
Leppington, Sheffield. Trade mark: Cutlass.
A stamp not often seen, spectacular old Stag. Leppington Sheffield, Eng. with their Trademark CUTLASS stamped on both Tangs.
Castrator Blade which seems nearly full, Iron Pins, Stag beautifully hafted - you pick up more each time you handle the knife, A hefty Knife and although far from mint, this knife I absolutely adore, Herder only gets a tenner with this knife Where I purchased this from, someone made a comment that the blade tip was broken, I thought " No- but thank you for putting others off " This is the way these Blades are shaped.

 

[cudgee]

I have had a few arrivals - nothing as spectacular as Herders Allen Sportsman, mind you I could chip in $20 or so if Herder wants to do a trade and pocket a cool 20 on one of these, Herder get your people to call my people Sir.
Leppington, Sheffield. Trade mark: Cutlass.
A stamp not often seen, spectacular old Stag. Leppington Sheffield, Eng. with their Trademark CUTLASS stamped on both Tangs.
Castrator Blade which seems nearly full, Iron Pins, Stag beautifully hafted - you pick up more each time you handle the knife, A hefty Knife and although far from mint, this knife I absolutely adore, Herder only gets a tenner with this knife Where I purchased this from, someone made a comment that the blade tip was broken, I thought " No- but thank you for putting others off " This is the way these Blades are shaped.

Spectacular.

 

[Campbellclanman]

A Knife that doesn't leap out at you too much, I saw this locally and just really liked it, I have owned quite a few- probably as most of us have C. Johnstone Flag Knives, or Western Works knives, I haven't though, owned many with the simple /plain tang stamp. C.Johnson & Co, Sheffield, England. No I don't think I have discovered a rare priceless gem that was stolen from the Sheffield museum, but I just thought that with the Blades being full, and some very nice Bone and jig work, for the price of a Burger and chips, I picked it up quickly. This Bone really comes to life in the natural Sun- is fascinating.
Perky Walk and Talk, this wee Vintage is in lovely shape, and who doesn't want a nice Sheffield hanging around the place?