"Made in Sheffield" 1830-1930, A golden age ?

Very cool, Mick. I have only had the opportunity to handle one large sportsman that was in excellent condition and they are amazing pieces of work. All of the tools appeared to be as crisp and worked as well as the day it was assembled, except with patina. Your's look to be in perfect condition.
 
wellington said:
Delighted you like the Carrick Steve & Charlie, cucumber sandwiches are nice to have when one takes tea….apparently :D


A very good place to research "Glasgow" marked knives is the National Library of Scotland web site, they have every Glasgow PO Directory 1783-1911 available on-line.

Duncan, your J & A Kelly sportsman's you kindly posted pics of a while ago was retailed by James & Andrew Kelly who had a shop at 6 & 7 Argyle Arcade between 1844-51 and then at 82 Argyle Street between 1851-1879.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8589682&postcount=535 .

Mick
Click to expand...

Mick...I Missed this, as I was too busy looking at that stag :eek:

That is fantastic, thank you VERY much for the information on the old battered girl :) its great to have something to add with the ownership of that knife...thank you so much for that....very valuable information
 
Seeing those Sportsmen in a line like that is a revelation:thumbup:

That biggest one must be massive, any idea of weights of these please?
See a few nuts there handy for cracking!

It's interesting that the Scottish stag was deemed inferior/porous. Were many knives actually shod with this and was the price difference appreciable between the domestic and Indian stag? I suppose Scottish stag came from Red Deer and would be similar to American Elk stag or Elk(Moose) as used here in Scandinavia?

Thanks, W
 
The composition and size of ungulate antlers is primarily dependant on genetics and diet, particularly the mineral content of the soils. Hence the same or closely related species, can have differing antler size and density based on where they inhabit.
My question is : Is this incredible stag we see on vintage Sheffield knives the same as it looked when on the animal, or was there some working on it or dying to get the amazingly rich look and texture ?
I have never seen a rack, in hand or in pictures, from any ungulate in North America that looks anything like the vintage Sheffield stag.
roland
 
Thanks for the comments Jim, Ken, Vince, Rob, Nick, Kerry, Duncan, willgoy ,Roland & John delighted you like the picture showing the four sportsman's knives.. :)

sebago said:
Hi Mick,

What a pretty picture those four make. Prettier still that you chose to show them with hazel nuts (Filberts.) Especially as all four knives are equipped with nut crackers!

Jim Taylor.
Click to expand...

Jim, I was experimenting cracking hazelnuts with those knives, the large 6 1/4" Holtzapffel broke them with ease as did the 4 3/4" Rodgers. The 4 1/4" Turner would brake nuts, at a push, but I was afraid to try :rolleyes:. The 3 1/2" knife is too small...

024-6-1-1.jpg



ken erickson said:
Mick,

Thats a neat picture of the four different size sportsman's lined up! . I was wondering on the stag, the raised areas, or tops of the popcorn, when hafted originally was white, and with age has turned this color? Or do you think the stag was dyed after hafting?

Ken
Click to expand...

Hi Ken, the rough raised areas on the surface of the stag is called "figuring" on this side of the pond. I think the stag used on all four of the knives shown was dyed before it was fitted on the knives.

The whole "antler" cutting and dyeing (using wood shavings and powders) processes are quite fascinating, those old guys certainly knew what they were doing..

willgoy, the three principal types of "antler" used in Sheffield was chital, sambar and Scottish stag..all three having slightly different properties and uses. The Holtapffel is heavy, it must weight about a pound and a half (ish)..

Mick
 
rprocter said:
The composition and size of ungulate antlers is primarily dependant on genetics and diet, particularly the mineral content of the soils. Hence the same or closely related species, can have differing antler size and density based on where they inhabit.
My question is : Is this incredible stag we see on vintage Sheffield knives the same as it looked when on the animal, or was there some working on it or dying to get the amazingly rich look and texture ?
I have never seen a rack, in hand or in pictures, from any ungulate in North America that looks anything like the vintage Sheffield stag.
roland
Click to expand...

I'm not an authority on handle materials and the various treatment and processes. Just repeating what I've been told.

The treatment and using of "antler" is completely different to that of horn ie ox and cow.

Dyeing pans were used to boil large quantities of antler, the pans were raised and fires heated them from beneath, the two dyeing agents most commonly used were logwood (for a black finish) and camwood (for a reddish plum finish). The antlers were forked out of the boiling pan after a number of hours. Then the antlers were cut and sorted, nothing going to waste. I guess the antler slabs would warp a little and could be straightened using cutlers clamps ?.

Mick
 
Last edited:
I dug these out of my stag stash. They are all Ontario White tail deer antlers that will eventually be handle material. Some nice knarly pieces with good natural colour. I have found most White tail antler to be very solid and dense with no shrinkage.
I hope you don't mind me posting this in your wonderful thread Mick.

Very best regards

Robin
 
Last edited:
As I understand it, the antlers were typically cut into rough scales (still somewhat thicker than they would finish up), the whole boiling/dyeing process done, and the scales were immediately given their final shaping (one end held in a bench mounted clamp, the other in a handheld clamp) while still softened a bit - then let dry - and then the scales backs were flattened again, also thinning them - ready for use. The amount of time required and all the details of precisely how they did all of this is largely lost. There were guys that specializing in each of the various common scale materials - working the raw materials into finished scales for use by the cutlers. There were generations of knowledge and skill involved. Those perfect, almost totally bark stag scales on the old Sheffield knives required lifetimes of skill - both from the stag scale specialists and the cutlers doing final fitup.
 
Last edited:
Why is it such a thrill to see those lovely stag knives all lined up??
True art; just breathtaking!

Softening and flattening the stag explains a lot. Those steps must be responsible for keeping a lot of stag out of the waste bin, AND for preventing the poor fitting we see on some modern production knives. The "white end" syndrome!!
 
MOP 4 blade senator, 2.5" closed. Marked "JAMES BODEN SHEFFIELD".
From Geoffrey Tweedale's wonderful new book on Sheffield cutlery manufacturers:
A manufacturer of "fine pen and pocket knives"...born in about 1815. By 1841, he was listed as a spring knife cutler....He employed 20 men and boys in 1871, but the number was a dozen in 1881..In January 1872 he appeared in court as a witness to testify that he had been marking knives 'L. Rodgers' for William Jackson & Co. - a fictitious mark that was clearly intended to mimic the famous name of Joseph Rodgers & Sons. He died on 28 September 1886, aged 72.
Click to expand...
The quality of this little knife, with sunk joints and recessed nail nicks, would indicate that Boden's craftsmanship was every bit the equal of the more well-known firm. Then as now, however, some people prefer to buy a name.
30241af.jpg
 
^^ A very nice and tidy compact little four bladed James Boden penknife there Berkley :thumbup:, great to see a knife made by one of the smaller Victorian era makers.

Tweedale's Directory….certainly paints a colourful picture of old Sheffield, he tells us in quite some detail about the many makers associated with the cutlery trade..a great book.

Mick
 
Here's another fine Victorian 2 1/2" Senator, all the blades are marked I*XL, GEORGE WOSTENHOLM, SHEFFIELD, guessing made C1890, silver scales and centre liner, the backsprings have a silver overlay, sunken joints..all the blades walk and talk very crisply.

0842007013-1.jpg


0842007014-2.jpg


Mick
 
All that fine work in such a small package! It is just amazing to think of the skill and ability required to produce that tiny work of art.
Done today, it would probably be fairly priced at ten times the cost of a work-a-day two blade production trapper.
Thanks for bringing the museum to the gawker, Mick!!
 
I knew I'd seen a small JAMES BODEN, SHEFFIELD four bladed Senator before, here it is, a little spotty but unused, really nice quality...

040-2-1.jpg



Here's an excellent top of the line 3 1/4" shadow three thick Victorian era H G LONG & Co, SHEFFIELD (crossed swords logo) gents pocket knife, super pearl, milled liners, gilded and fileworked inside and out, the blades look unused and unsharpened..

031-3-1.jpg


034-3-1.jpg


033-3-1.jpg


Thanks for looking,

Mick
 
Hi Mick,

You keep on slipping these high quality folders into this thread and we all benefit. Thank you so much.

This one is just that little bit different, having the folding scissors as the "master" blade.

As you know, in the US this pattern has become known as a "Five blade whittler. ALWAYS top-of-the-line and just as pretty as a picture.

Jim Taylor.
 
Thanks for the comments Jim & Rob.

Jim, now you mention it these five blade whittlers, three thick with a full length central blade (or scissors), always seem to be really well made, usually in a shadow pattern, pearl scales and smothered in filework, they must be top of the line knives, great things.

Rob, delighted you like the knives however neither is a Congress pattern, they always have a sheepfoot master and a slightly hollowed back...I think ?.

Mick
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top