Made in Taiwan

Originally Posted by winbag338
Trying to separate politics from the world market in this climate is a form of intellectual dishonesty.
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Do you really think that the steel in your knives, pipes in your house, your car came from USA?:rolleyes:
 
NI200 said:
Do you really think that the steel in your knives, pipes in your house, your car came from USA?:rolleyes:
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I thought steel was a product in it's raw form that is produced heavily by the USA.
When you factor in shipping such a heavy item I think there's a good chance items that are large, probably are made from USA steel.(if they are completed here) After all the USA is number 3 in world wide production. So you have to factor in shipping heavy raw steel from China then getting it to the factories once on land, that often doesn't offset the savings, I'd think.
As for knives, no the best steels used for knives does not come from China or Taiwan. It is produced here in the USA and a few other countries.
 
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we have had our steel industry eclisped for yrs. oregon wood burning stoves moved to japan in 80s for steel raw material.china is probably sendind us as much steel as anyone else now.the great majority of steel is'nt mined it is recycled & then further refined to special alloys as required by industry. these refining factories are accurate to 3 decimal places in required specialty alloys.
 
Iron and Steel Exports to US by BRIC Country

China shipped well over half of the $11 billion worth of BRIC iron and steel imported into America in 2007.

* China ... US$6.2 billion in iron and steel materials and products
* Brazil ... $2.8 billion
* Russia ... $1.1 billion
* India ... $841.4 million.

Iron and Steel Exports to US by G7 Country

Canada sends the most ferrous metal exports into America, half of the G7’s $14.4 billion total exports to the U.S.

* Canada ... US$7.6 billion in iron and steel materials and products
* Japan ... $2.3 billion
* Germany ... $1.7 billion
* UK … $1 billion
* Italy … $1 billion
* France … $774.6 million.

Iron and Steel Imports from US by BRIC Country

China consumed over two-thirds of the $3.4 billion worth of U.S. iron and steel exports to BRIC countries in 2007.

* China ... US$2.7 billion in iron and steel materials and products
* India ... $562.2 million
* Brazil ... $190.1 million
* Russia ... $9.6 million.

Iron and Steel Imports from US by G7 Country

Canada accounts for over 80% of $10.3 billion in G7 iron and steel imports from America.

* Canada ... US$8.4 billion in iron and steel materials and products
* UK … $717 million
* Japan ... $543.3 million
* Germany ... $314.1 million
* Italy … $225.4 million
* France … $123.1 million.


Read more at Suite101: US Steel Imports & Exports: Canada and China’s Annual $25 Billion Iron and Steel Trade with USA http://internationaltradecommodities.suite101.com/article.cfm/us_steel_imports_exports#ixzz0awYNmyH7
 
It seems there's really no way to tell where the raw steel came from used in, say a premium knife blade. According to the chart it's possible it could come from about anyplace and just be completed here. -Is that right?
 
SteelSnob said:
China's human rights and trading practices speak for themselves. If I have the choice I will try to avoid supporting a goverment like that.
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Making China's human rights abuses an issue seems to be yet another dodge. The reason is twofold. One, China's manufacturers are sometimes foreign owned. And two, Americans can't really claim a moral high ground on the issue, either in the past, or in the present. Few countries can. Increasing prosperity of actual Chinese people is probably the best way for China to change into an increasingly western looking nation. This is already happening, with more Chinese being lifted out of poverty than ever before, all due to free trade.

As far as trading practices, I argue that they don't really matter. If China floods markets, or devalued it's currency, this is to their detriment while it benefits Western consumers. And again, if you want to condemn China for protectionist policy, you'd be hard pressed to do so without hypocrisy, as the US has a long history of propping up protectionist trade policy whenever some political constituent decides they need to be more free in the free market. Other Western countries are even worse in this area.

winbag338 said:
I didnt claim there was a false statement being made, and its obvious your perception of historical events is based on the ignorant 3rd world model of ingrate indoctrination.
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It would be nice to have an honest discussion with actual arguments. A baseless personal attack seems to indicate the lack of a coherent response.
 
Chinese don't like Japanese at all, but we still purchase Japan's product.

becase a wise consumer doesn't care where the product made,but care about the quality and the price, that's crucial..
 
@Shecky

I'm not trying to dodge anything. It's very simple to me. I don't do business with scumbags if I have the choice. The same applies to knives made in China that will support a scumbag regime. No need for your nonsensical over philosophical replies that don't apply to what I said like your last response. I feel bad for the Chinese and the way they are treated by their goverment plain and simple. I enthusiasticly buy from Tawain and Japan but not China. If that upsets you that's on you. Good Luck to you.
 
I had no luck with chines knifes they all suck !! I dont care who made it but if quality is bad , it is not my cup of tea. . maybe there is good chines knife but I haven't seen it yet.
 
Whenever I see posts stressing the "importance" of buying American knives, I think that by applying same reasoning I being a convinced European Community member, should not buy (for example) any Spydercos anymore but only European knives. After all, there are several decent European knife companies, and everytime I spend on a Spyderco, I could have instead made life a bit easier for the nice people at say Eka or Böker.

I hope this illustrates how limiting provincial thinking is. Instead of applying this reasoning I focus on quality - wherever it came from, and this is what keeps competition delivering better products.

Something I'd like to add about China. Indeed, I wouldn't want too live there, but I've been there a few times in factories. Working conditions are often not ideal but it's obvious when you visit every few years that they are improving, and that the quality of life in the more industrialised zones is on average improving as well.
And, wouldn't it be a very christian approach to distribute our surplus wealth?
 
Dagon said:
Whenever I see posts stressing the "importance" of buying American knives, I think that by applying same reasoning I being a convinced European Community member, should not buy (for example) any Spydercos anymore but only European knives.
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Excellent point - if everyone took this view seriously that would be the end of international trade and we would all be the poorer for it.

Luckily not everyone from the USA is so daft and I see plenty of posts by Americans recommending non-USA made knives. Brands I have seen recommended include: Mora, Opinel, Fallkniven, HI, Helle and many others.

I own plenty of products made in the USA, not just knives - I am happy to buy good quality and don't care where it is made. I also own good quality products made in Japan, China, Taiwan, France, Germany, Finland, Sweden, Switzerland, Italy, Malaysia, UK, The Philippines, etc.
 
There is nothing wrong with international trade, however I dont want to do buisness with a country or company that pays slave wages!!!!!!!! In my opinion there is an economic food chain just like there is in nature. China is destroying the rest of the worlds job markets , how many factories around you have closed.
 
OkefenokeeKnives said:
There is nothing wrong with international trade, however I dont want to do buisness with a country or company that pays slave wages!!!!!!!! In my opinion there is an economic food chain just like there is in nature. China is destroying the rest of the worlds job markets , how many factories around you have closed.
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Just for clarity, are you talking about mainland China or Taiwan? That sounds like China, but not Taiwan.
 
powernoodle said:
Taiwan is a cosmopolitan, westernized, pro-America democracy. As I have noted elsewhere, I have some knowledge of Taiwan arising from my father-in-law's many business trips to Taipei. Taiwan is ok with me.

I am happy to buy from Taiwan, Japan, etc.

I try to avoid China where possible, as they have nukes pointed at us.
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Ditto. I try to look at it from a national/political perspective. I have no doubt that there are some acceptable blades for the price coming out of China but I have no desire to support the country. They already practically own the U.S. financially. I hate to think of all the time in the past I've wasted trying to repair Chinese crap. I now avoid their stuff like the plague based on principle alone. Sometimes I do end up with stuff made in China but it's usually not by choice.
BTW Syltetoy, I seriously doubt that as China becomes more prosperous they're government is going to change it's humanitarian wrong doings. For instance, only allowing one baby has been a disaster due to the male/female ratio but with the population explosion around the world, do you really think they will lift this form of control? If anything, I wouldn't be surprised to see the United Nations or other countries try to adopt some form of population control. It's already happening here in the U.S. with planned parenthood and taxpayer funded abortions.
China also heavily persecutes Christians. That's all I need to know.
 
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LUW said:
Just wanted to see how you guys feel about this, if I'm too much of an oddball. Though I'm old enough, been around the knife business for quite some time (at least a couple of decades) and I'm fairly wise (or at least like to think of myself as not being too dumb :p), I can't help myself but look down at a blade or tool that is made in Taiwan or China :rolleyes:.

Yes, I know that what really counts is materials and manufacturing standards and NOT where a tool is made/assembled, but I just can't get pass this prejudice against country of origin when it comes to factory pieces
hittinghead.gif
. Even if the blade is from a notorious brand like BM or Spyderco (my all time favorite knife brands), if it's not made in the US or Europe I can't avoid not loosing some of my initial interest in the knife. Not that I won't get the knife just because of country of origin, but it is a let down for me.

Stupid or last silly, I'm aware of that, but I can't help it. Anyone else like that or should I look for professional help?
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I dealt with lots of people like you 25 years ago when I began to have knives made in Japan. It took a few years but it is hard to stay a believer when you handle a knife by Moki or the now lost Shibata or some of the other GREAT knifemaking companies of Japan. Most of those people either changed or became lost because I continued to make knives in Japan.

It is much easier today because Taiwan and China are making me such fantastic knives that they almost sell themselves. When you have seen how much real quality is possible from those two countries perhaps you will change your mind.
 
Sorry if this is semi-off topic but I have to say this about the government in Taiwan:

After Japanese occupation, Taiwan was taken over by Chiang Kai-Shek and the KMT party when Mao and his communists defeated him in a Civil war. Chiang's government was corrupt and totalitarian. Estimates for the 228 Massacre have 10,000 to 30,000 civilians killed. Elections were held with a "Democratic" one party system. The press was run by the government and anyone who voiced opposition were imprisoned, tortured or killed.

The KMT is still in power in Taiwan today. The KMT is a foreign Chinese entity representing 15 percent of the population that is from China. It is NOT Taiwanese. The 85 percent of the population that is Taiwanese is not truly represented in the government.

This government was funded by the CIA to help them undermine Mao's army in mainland China. All of the money went directly into the Chiang's family's pockets. A US official commented in the NY times that the Chiangs were no better than "common thieves."

Despite all of this most Americans view the Taiwanese government positively.

As for China:

If as an individual you boycott Chinese made goods it is meaningless.

If you refuse to buy single Chinese $50 knife manufactured in Guangdong by a 16year old girl trying to put food on her family's table, it is not going stop a government official from beating and raping a Buddhist nun in a reeducation prison in Tibet.

If you try to boycott everything Chinese on principle you will find it is impossible.

Given how many manufacturers are outsourcing to or buying materials from China and globalization, I guarantee everyone has purchased some item that was assembled in China or made from materials made in China. Heck, most cardboard boxes are recycled in China. Every time you buy something that was transported or packaged in a cardboard box, you have more than likely supported a Chinese company.
 
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I have lived in both countries AND seen knife factories from both. The fit and finish from the Taiwan knives tend to be much better than China ones. Given that, China does have the ability in most cases to build quality knives, at a price. The pieces of crap you see from China are because they aren't made for the higher end crowd. If you were to pay a chinese manufacturer what it costs an American, German, Japanese manufacturer to make a quality knife they could probably do it in terms of machining quality but then there would be no reason to for the distributor/company to make import the knife as they would have to pay duties, shipping costs, etc. The other problem is Chinese (or many other countries) may not have the economies of scale to import quality steels as S30V.

In the end, you get what you pay for and I definitely prefer my US made knives. Especially ZTs, though I suspect not everything is made in the US (clips, screws, etc).
 
You guys are forgetting that a lot of US Corporations are tied up with China and Taiwan and that a lot of the reason for their success. The Corporations have crapped on the US citizens cutting their jobs and gave them to the foreign factories. They continue to do so and will not stop because it makes them tons of money.

IF you want someone to blame, blame the US Corporations greed and the American public for being cheap and stupid helping all of this happen over the years.

All we are doing is making the Greedy Corporations richer than ever before and in the process selling ourselves out costing Millions of Americans their jobs and livelihoods.

So while Millions of Americans are on Unemployment and Welfare or just simply broke the CEO's and Board of Directors of those Corporations are living the High Life even better due to selling out their own Countrymen and Women.

The same things will happen in China and Taiwan in the future once they have drained all they can from those Countries and the labour costs get too high. They will move onto another Country and setup starting all over again.

The Corporations are the most evil thing on Earth today as they have no loyalty to anything but the money they make and will destroy anything and anyone to make more of it. They are like a plague or a virus that just eats everything in their path with no remorse for what they do.

The time when the Corporations really cared about their employees has been long gone and they will all put every employee out of a job in a minute if it will make them more money, they are and have been doing exactly that.

So when I hear people talk about the global economy I just wait until their job is gone with one stroke of a pen and soon after they lose everything they have worked for. Then I go back to them them and ask them about the global economy and how happy they were to save a dollar on underwear. ;)

People need to start thinking outside the little box they seem to be living in and wake up to what is really going on around them because there will be a time when it will effect them directly.

Anyone who has gone to work only to have their security card not work that morning only to find out they are out of a job and their stuff is at the security desk, or been laid off do to reorganizing knows what I am talking about.
 
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