Making a forge press, or buying one?

At 17 ton it sounds like he's using a 4" cylinder running at 2700 psi pressure? It seems most folks run the 4" cylinder at 2550 psi for a comfortable 16 ton. When he mentions his ips, asked about pump volume - it will take around 12 gpm for 3.7 ips extend speed.

Here's a couple of calculators to play around with:
https://www.baumhydraulics.com/images/calculators/cyl_calc.htm (cylinder size)
and
https://www.baumhydraulics.com/images/calculators/cyl_speed.htm (ips calculator)
They're fun to play around with and give decent results for understanding cylinder and pump requirements. I do wish I'd found these before ordering the "9 ton" Coal Iron press. At least I would have know I was getting 9 ton rather than the advertised 12 ton. I am pleasantly surprised how well 9 tons actually work for forging.

Good luck and have fun.
 
Ken H> said:
Yep, I've got a 12 ton "H" style Coal Iron press. It's not really a 12 ton unit, unless they've changed things. When I purchased the press I thought I was ordering a 12 ton press. Sad to say it came with a 3" cylinder spec'd to operate at 2250 psi which gives 9 tons. The pressure setting on my controls were adjusted to 2250 psi giving almost 8 ton. The flat dies are 1.5" X 3" so that's still a good bit of pressure per sq in allowing the low tonnage press to operate nicely. I called Coal Iron about the false advertising claiming 12 ton rather than the actual 9 ton (once I adjusted the pressure). They simple said "it works doesn't it?" and did mention the required 3.5" cylinder cost to much so they decided to use the 3" instead. I was VERY disappointed with their response.

I changed the cylinder to a 4" (which was cheaper than the 3.5"), even at 2,000 psi it's 12.5 ton which the frame handles nicely. Just for a test I did a 16 ton press and couldn't see any movement in the frame, but feel that might be too much so tend to use the lower pressure.

"IF" they have decided to use the 3.5" cylinder so you'll have an actual 12 ton, I wouldn't have a problem with.

On building the frame - "IF" you (or have access to a good welder) it's no problem building your own press. It's easy to follow the design - and plenty of sources online, YT, etc. A guy named "Red Beard" on YT has a really good press build. I think his is a 16 ton which seems to be the sweet spot for a press. It's best to have a 3600 rpm motor since most hydraulic pumps rated well above 1800 rpm for full flow.

My "12" ton press came with a 2hp, 1800 rpm motor. If I understand correctly the 16 ton (and larger) is the same power pack except for a 5 hp, 3600 rpm motor. The 12, 16, and 25 ton presses all use the same hydraulic pump. The 3600 rpm speed allows the pump to move twice as much hydraulic fluid as the 1750 rpm motor.

If you have access to some steel, by all mean research building your own press. Not hard to do - with access to a good welder.

Later
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I’m building a forge press. I have a 4in cylinder with a 2in rod. Would like to know what hyd. power unit would be best to achieve approximately 12 tons
 
jackpar said:
I’m building a forge press. I have a 4in cylinder with a 2in rod. Would like to know what hyd. power unit would be best to achieve approximately 12 tons
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With a 4" cylinder 16 ton is a better option since that's 2550 psi. For 12 ton you would need only a tad over 1900 psi. That would still require a 2hp motor with a pump to provide at least 6 gpm flow. 6 gpm is typically achieved with a 12gpm rated pump - most pumps are rated at 3000+ rpm so with a 1750 rpm motor the pump will provide around half the rated output.

You say "hyd power unit" which sounds like you're looking for a package unit with pump, motor, controls all in a single package? I don't really know anything about those type units. Look at the specs for flow rate, motor hp, and max pressure it will provide. For 12 ton using your 4" cylinder it would need to be rated at least 1900 psi.

What design frame are you looking at? A "C" or "H" frame seems to be the most popular.
 
Ken H> said:
With a 4" cylinder 16 ton is a better option since that's 2550 psi. For 12 ton you would need only a tad over 1900 psi. That would still require a 2hp motor with a pump to provide at least 6 gpm flow. 6 gpm is typically achieved with a 12gpm rated pump - most pumps are rated at 3000+ rpm so with a 1750 rpm motor the pump will provide around half the rated output.

You say "hyd power unit" which sounds like you're looking for a package unit with pump, motor, controls all in a single package? I don't really know anything about those type units. Look at the specs for flow rate, motor hp, and max pressure it will provide. For 12 ton using your 4" cylinder it would need to be rated at least 1900 psi.

What design frame are you looking at? A "C" or "H" frame seems to be the most popular.
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I’m using an H frame.
 
I’m building a hydraulic press for bladesmithing. I would like to know if anyone can tell what hydraulic power unit would work best for me. I’m using an H frame with a 4in cylinder and a 2in rod and a 16in travel
 
Jack, As I mentioned above since you've got the 4" cylinder you might as well build for a 16 ton - it's gonna be the same price as the 12 ton, perhaps a very small amount extra for the steel to build the frame. That would seem the best setup would be Then put the parts together to build your own power unit. OR, something like this from Northern Tool: (do a google search on Model# HBHR280GX) - except that is gas driven. I expect you'll want electric motor?

As mentioned above, look for a 2 hp 1750 rpm motor, or a 3 hp 3450 rpm motor.

If you wish, feel free to email me direct at sailingtoo at the gmail acct.

BTW, what part of the country are you in? It helps to fill out the profile - somebody might be next door with lots of help and parts.

Ken H>
 
I live in Alabama. You’re correct that I want to use an electric motor. If someone could put together a list of the parts needed to build a unit I would really appreciate that. I have a background as a process engineer in plastics but not much of a hydraulics background. But I’m fairly mechanically inclined. My plan is to take an H frame like those with bottle Jack and beef up the frame.
 
The Batson book we recommended has all the parts list and many exact part numbers. "Build Your Own Hydraulic Forging Press" James Batson
 
If you happen to be in the Southern portion of Alabama feel free to swing by and look at my press. We can draw up some good plans for you, and perhaps do some welding.

If you're interested I've got the James Batson book. It was given to me and I'll be happy to pass it along to you is you wish it. I think I posted my email address in post #26 above? feel free to email me direct.
Ken H>
 
I ordered the book yesterday. Once I start going through it I’ll let you know if I have any questions. Which I’m sure I will.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
I'll let someone with a 12 answer that, but I think it is a bit underpowered for canisters.
I would suggest the 16/2HP. I also suggest the foot pedal. You will need both hands forging billets.

For the extra $700 I also suggest the 5HP model. It has 2.5 times faster IPS.
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I have the 12 ton and I have been successful forging 2” canisters with it. I have the Coal 2”squaring dies, and made my own 1”. I’ve also made my own flat dies and fullering dies.

I recently purchased the raindrop dies and truthfully I’m a little disappointed that, while beautifullly machined, the protrusions are not offset but rather a mirror image.

I’m VERY satisfied with the 12 ton press and highly recommend it. I do have the foot control, too.
 
Amazing what 9 tons will do with that Coal Iron press isn't it? That's if they're still using the 3" cylinder rather than a 3-1/2" cylinder. The 9 ton Coal Iron press I had (before I changed to a 4" cylinder) works just fine with canister - the dies are only 1.5" wide so it doesn't near so much tonnage to work ok.

Scotchmon: have you measured the OD of your cylinder to see if you have a 3" or 3-1/2" cylinder? That would be interesting.
 
Ken H> said:
Amazing what 9 tons will do with that Coal Iron press isn't it? That's if they're still using the 3" cylinder rather than a 3-1/2" cylinder. The 9 ton Coal Iron press I had (before I changed to a 4" cylinder) works just fine with canister - the dies are only 1.5" wide so it doesn't near so much tonnage to work ok.

Scotchmon: have you measured the OD of your cylinder to see if you have a 3" or 3-1/2" cylinder? That would be interesting.
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I always wondered why it’s called a 12 ton.
I’ll check but I believe the cylinder is 3”.
 
It's called a 12 ton because marketing would have a very hard sell on a 9 ton. Why they didn't spend the extra $100 or so and use the correct 3-1/2" is anybody's guess. When I ordered my press and found it with a 3" cylinder, and pressure wasn't set correctly so I was only getting 8 ton. Yep, adding a pressure gauge was one if the very first things I did. I called them and they just blew me off saying "it works doesn't it?" Yes, it worked very good for a 9 ton (once I set the correct 2550 psi) but I paid for a 12 ton. That didn't get any response from them and I dropped it.
 
Scotchmon said:
I always wondered why it’s called a 12 ton.
I’ll check but I believe the cylinder is 3”.
Click to expand...
Happened to check the cylinder today. It measures 3 1/2” outside.
I had success forge welding a stack of bandsaw blade. I left the teeth intact and simply alternated the orientation. I expected some inclusions at the teeth but they weren’t too bad.
This was more or less an experiment to see if the pieces would weld.
 
Yep, looks like Coal Iron is still using a 3" cylinder so they've got a 9 ton press, NOT the 12 ton they advertise. A cylinder is measured by the diameter of the piston inside the cylinder, not the OD. My 3" cylinder measures 3.4" inches as best a casual measurement gives.

Congrats on a successful weld for your first stack. I'm still amazed when I pull a stack from forge and squish in press for a billet.
 
Ken H> said:
Yep, looks like Coal Iron is still using a 3" cylinder so they've got a 9 ton press, NOT the 12 ton they advertise. A cylinder is measured by the diameter of the piston inside the cylinder, not the OD. My 3" cylinder measures 3.4" inches as best a casual measurement gives.

Congrats on a successful weld for your first stack. I'm still amazed when I pull a stack from forge and squish in press for a billet.
Click to expand...
And even more surprised when it squishes to much! Gotta love kiss blocks!
 
Hi! Hope I can post here about forge press questions.

I am building an Hframe and wondering if 4 x 4 .25 wall square tubing is sufficient? It’ll be between 18 and 20 ton I believe. Thanks for any thoughts!
 
iasg: all depends on the design of the "H" build, how the frames are placed and welded to. What size cylinder - 4" running a tad over 3K psi? Motor HP/RPM? I'm assuming 5hp at 3450 rpm?

1/4" wall thickness will require the weld load to be spread over a decent length so it doesn't tear out. If a single 4X4 at each side I'd feel better with 3/8" or possibly 5/16" walls? I'm not sure what would be required without calculations.

You might wish to start your own thread for your press build. Just keeps things cleaner that way.

What part of the world are you in? USA? If so then what part of what state?
 
I didn't chime in at first but wanted to add to Ken's post a bit. I would not use 1/4" wall square pipe for a 20-ton H-frame. IF you are a very good welder and made perfect welds, it still would be iffy. I would suggest 3/8" wall tubing or 1/2" wall I-beam. Many presses are built using 6X6 I beam with a 1/2" web.

If you don't have Batson's forge building book, get a copy.
 
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