Making a Hinderer great again

[halden.doerge]

Alright, time for Chapter 3: The 3" Slicer made slicier again!

This one I picked up off the forums and it had previously been "professionally sharpened" by someone with and EdgePro. And don't get me wrong, it was pretty sharp and the bevel was very well polished and even. Better polished than I can currently do on the WE really:

But there was a problem:

As you can see, the previous sharpener didn't actually take their polished edge all the way to the apex on the lower half of the blade. Yeah. But hey, this I can work with. If they had ground off too much steel, that would have been severely worse, so I'm counting my blessings.

So anyways, I decided to not go super acute on the first sharpening on this one and only reprofiled it back from 20 degrees per side to 17.5 degrees per side. I figure you can always take more steel away later, you can never put it back. I think it came out really nice.

Beginning:

Middle (Just sharpened to 1000 grit diamonds):

End:

Up next, the Half Track report!

 

[halden.doerge]

And I just couldn't stop. So Chapter 4 is the latest addition to he herd, the one proving beyond all doubt that I have a very serious Hinderer problem happening right now. The Half Track.

The factory edge on this one was actually surprisingly good compared to other Hinderers I've owned. I almost left it factory for a while longer, but ultimately the call of the mirror edge was too strong. The grind does thicken towards the tip of the knife and so the factory edge angle became more obtuse there, which I wasn't digging, so it was time for it to get evened out.

I decided to go easy on this one as well and only take it back to 18 degrees per side. It's a small, thick knife and I thought I'd wait and see how it performed with a slightly wider angle before really broadening out the secondary bevel. Came out very nice, only thickening slightly towards the tip.

So here are all 4 of the members of my fledgling Hinderer Herd, arranged in order of current bevel acuteness. Starting from the top we have 15dps, 17dps, 17.5dps, and 18dps (or 30, 34, 35, and 36 degrees inclusive, respectively).

The next one I'm chasing is a 3" Wharncliffe, which I've been missing since I sold mine last year. Stay tune for that and for more updates about Hinderer flipping action, and the phosphor bronze washer conversion I did on all of these.

 

[halden.doerge]

Ok, just a few more follow ups. I've owned 6 Hinderers in the past, prior to these 4. I enjoyed them all but eventually ended up letting them go. Buying, selling, you know how it is. This latest accumulation of Hinderers has been really interested and I see them staying around permanently (at least at this point, I guess you never know). They are all current generation models and it's really, really cool to see how refined Hinderer's work has become.

Let me tell you, gone are the days when you had to tinker and tune and modify in order to get a Hinderer to flip. Each and every one of these had a perfectly dialed detent for snappy, writst-free flipping. I changed out the nylon washers, not because I felt like the originals were in any way problematic, but, well just because I like to tinker and somehow it felt more solid to have bronze in there.

What I discovered with all of them is the extremely precise tolerances. Absolutely perfect centering on all of them, no matter how many times I took them apart and put them back together. I also noticed that the free-falling closing tended to be most pronounced on the 3.5" XM18, and then get slightly less free falling the smaller the various knife models got (MP1, XM 3", Half Track). But in every case the flipping action itself was rocketlike, and all one could ask for.

From where I sit, Hinderer has really refined their product, and seeing them expanding the number of models they offer is very cool indeed.

 

[jcoffman55]

Hi,
Have you ever tried a 25 degree per side edge (50 degree edge) on a knife?
A 30 dps ( 60 degrees) edge on a knife?

Those are angles for metal cutting cold chisels or splitting wedges

Wood chisels only go to 30 degrees total.



If you don't believe this plain language measure the angles of this image

I measure these about
1 listed for frozen wood is 80 degrees or 40 degrees per side
2 listed for softwood is HIGH angle at 42 degress or 21 dps
3 listed for carving is is 25 degress or 12.5 dps

Here they says 25 degrees, An Ax to Grind: A Practical Ax Manual - 99232823 - FS Publications - Publications - Recreational Trails - Environment - FHWA
measure the image

I measure about 25 degrees or 12.5 degrees per side

Another reference mentioned Leonard Lee's The Complete Guide to Sharpening recommends felling axe edge angles as low as 10-12 dps. Granted, he does qualify it by saying clean (knot free) green wood, but still. In any case, challenge accepted. We'll see what happens.

Most axes have a 30-40 degree angle at the end of the bit and a 15-20 degree angle about ½” from the cutting edge.


Spyderco sal himself says all their blades can do 15dps
15dps is a "safe" angle,
consider that under 15 dps edge can chop bones And 12 dps edge can still shaves/whittles beard hair after 1000 slices of hardwood ( yes a 1000 slices of hardwood )
25dps dulls faster than 20dps even if those are microbevel angles

Also, consider this mind exploding material , spyderco delica/pacific salt...Extreme Regrind , ~6DPS no damage in 50 slices into pine, hardwood flooring and plywood the edge eventually gets damaged while cutting metal (steel food can)
Edge Retention : Cardboard

Thanks for the illustrations, an 80 degree edge would be nearly square lol. The info for the spyderco edge comes right off of the spyderco sharp maker which is set at two inclusive angles....40 degrees and 30 degrees. Your pic of the cold chisel states my point exactly. Thank you.

 

[jcoffman55]

Nice Hinderer dude, sorry for the asshattery in your thread.

 

[FordFan]

Never been a big Hinderer fan but that MP1 and your comments about the detects on the new models has me thinking maybe I should give them another chance.

Nice WE work BTW. That 15 dps has to be a great slicer.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[halden.doerge]

Never been a big Hinderer fan but that MP1 and your comments about the detects on the new models has me thinking maybe I should give them another chance.

Nice WE work BTW. That 15 dps has to be a great slicer.

Thanks for sharing.

Thanks! Much appreciation for the kind words.

 

[Onikudaki]

Great thread. Thank you for the pictures of the mounted 3" slicer!

 

[halden.doerge]

Great thread. Thank you for the pictures of the mounted 3" slicer!

You bet!

 

[halden.doerge]

Update: my 3" Wharncliffe is on its way. Should have a post up about that one soon after it arrives. It's getting a sharpening (I'm think 18dps on this one), full conversion to blue hardwear, and new bronze washers like the rest!

 

[halden.doerge]

Alright, Chapter 5 is here! The Wharncliffe. I love the 3" XM18 Wharnie. I've had two before this one and always regretted selling them. They've gotten scarce now, but I managed to pick one up from a good fella who basically threw in almost an entire set of blue anodized hardware to boot. I ordered the missing blue filler tab and handle nuts immediately and everything arrived all at once today.

I put this one through my standard Hinderer tune up: new polished bronze washers, sharpen on the Wicked Edge, clean and lube. I also completed the blue hardware conversion (thought I still need to track down a blue anno clip to really complete it...) and put a translucent G10 scale on this one, which I think goes very nicely with the blue hardware.

For the sharpening job on this one, I only took it back to 19 degrees per side, my shallowest Hinderer reprofile yet. I think it came out really well. In the past I've taken these to 15 degrees per side and wound up with a pretty whopping thick bevel, which I don't might, but I wanted to try a different approach on this one. Ironically, while wharncliffes are known for being super delicate, pointy, and stabby, the Hinderer Wharncliffe, at least in the 3" version is one of his thickest grinds. So taking a very shallow angle really means removing a lot of steel unless you get Josh to give it an ole Razor Edge regrind.

Here's what we wound up with when all was said and done:

And just for fun some different glamour shots of the edge:

And of course, the now pretty sizeable herd:

Not really sure what's next. Of course, responsible people would have stopped a long time ago with this Hinderer obsessions. We'll see where things go...

 

[halden.doerge]

Well, these may not be "true" Hinderers, but I felt my Zero Tolerance 0562 and 0562CF deserved a brief mention in this thread as well. I definitely consider them to be the best production ZT/Hinderer collaboration, and arguably they are a better all around knife than the genuine XM18 (at least in terms of bang for one's buck).

And, like the true Hinderers, the ZT's needed a bit of tinkering to bring out their full potential as well. As with many ZTs, the plunge grind extended too far into the edge to sharpen it without creating a huge flare, so the choils needed to be extended a bit (easily accomplished with a dremel and a round diamond bit). And of course, the 20 degrees per side factored edges needed to be redone to make these beauties live up to their slicer name. I took them both to 15 degrees per side and was really impressed with how even and then the bevels came out. As far as cutting performance goes, the ZT versions definitely are superior to the genuine Hinderers, due to this better edge geometry.

The Elmax on the 0562 was definitely more time consuming to sharpen, but man oh man, the results were fantastic. Possibly even keener than its 204P counterpart. Both are definitely ready for action now:

 

[J85909266]

Did you try to find PB washers to fit the Half Track?

Thanks for all of this info. This thread is exactly what I'm looking for, and it has been very helpful.

 

[halden.doerge]

Did you try to find PB washers to fit the Half Track?

Thanks for all of this info. This thread is exactly what I'm looking for, and it has been very helpful.

Yes indeed. The same washers have fit all the the Hinderer models I've owned. I currently have them on my XM's, Half Track, MP1, and Jurassic.

 

[halden.doerge]

I did my Hinderer spa treatment on my new Jurassic this morning. Took the edge down to 17 degrees per side (tried 20 first, didn't care for it, needed just a bit more sliceyness). Added phosphor bronze washers, which noticeably helped the flipping action. I think that the Hinderer working finish tends to be a little less smooth initially on the action due to the rougher blasted finish. Takes a little time to break it in, but it's coming along nicely.

Took a great edge, too!

Of course I bought this one to replace my small blue XM18 slicer. And it, ahem...has replaced my small blue XM18 slicer...

 

[JB in SC]

Nice thread

 

[halden.doerge]

Well, I couldn't manage to let the 3" slicer go. Instead I've got it newly blinged out with full copper hardwear and s black/blue scale.

Copper and blue! Loving both of the 3" XMs!

 

[halden.doerge]

Here's where the collection stands. On the verge of trying to cut it down by half. I need to downsize, but keep going back and forth on which ones will draw the short straw.

 

[asmith001]

I enjoyed reading through this thread. Thanks for sharing. I, too, have polished PB washers in my hinderer XM-18 Skinner. I like the feel of them a little better. I'm about to take it a notch farther though. I'm going to put multiple washers on each side (thinner ones, of course). Many of the G-10 Spyderco's that I've disassembled have had multiples on each side of the blade. They are all as smooth as butter. I'm curious to see if it will affect it at all.

 

[W. Anderson]

And chapter 2 of Hinderer greatness:

Got a brand new MP1 in natural canvas micarta today. Fantastic knife, and as such it had to meet the Wicked Edge. I took this one a bit further, laying it back to 15 degrees per side to see how it did. Ya'll can be the judge. I can tell you for sure that it cuts like a laser.

That looks so good.