Making A Press. NEED HELP!!!!

D

Dezmond

Joined
Jun 5, 2009
Messages
80
Hey Everyone!!!

Been ooking around here for a while now and I am about ready to start to build my shop....

I LOVE the press that Eric Fleming made.. I am going to model mine close to his... I found this at a near by shop

Hydraulic Power Unit 1.8 gpm @ 3,000 psi 110/220 1hp single phase

Will this be ok to use? I just need to figure out what type of cylinder to buy.

Any help would be great everyone...

Thanks All!!!

Dezi
Ontario Canada
 
You're backwards

You have to start with the desired tonnage, then chose the pressure you want to run at - lmited by the pumps and fittings available.
Then calculate the cylinder
then get the pump and motor to fit that.


You want a ram speed of 1 to 2 inches per second.


Since you have Eric's build, just use the same specs
and make a shopping list from Princess auto.
They have the most accessible, stable prices and supply throughout Canada for Hydraulic prices.
Yes there are speciality shops, but most have higher pricing

Offhand, I say way too low of a gpm rating and way too low of a motor HP.
If you look at his build, you will see the rating of this unit is a fraction of the specs you have from Eric.



I haven't' seen a pre-made pump, motor package that meets forging press needs.


Stacy recommends a wood splitter, but new, the price is too high
Used all the ones I've seen here are wornout


Show us a link
 
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surpluscenter.com has hydraulic calculator, you can use it to determine what cylinder size at what PSI you need to achieve your desired tonnage, and how many GPM the pump needs to put out to achieve this goal at a reasonable speed per minute, as will as how many horsepower the pump requires to achieves this.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulic.htm

Also a great place to shop for hydraulic gear, they should have everything you need to build your press at very good prices.
 
All I want would be around 20 tonne and 1 inch / sec at most.. I hope to use it to make Damascus Billets and thats about it..

I have a full garage for my forge only... I have a 12x12 room for my grinding and finishing in the house...

I am really new to hydraulics and such so I am in need of the help as to what to pick...

Thanks everyone for your help....

Dezi
 
5 inch cylinder bore
2000psi


Using the automated controls that Eric has or not ?
 
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Dezmond said:
Ok.. Found This Cylinder

http://www.princessauto.com/driveli...nt/1210007-4-bore-x-8-stroke-tie-rod-cylinder

SHould be ok yes??? Now pumps and motors... Very new to this. Willl need some help please :)

Thanks

Dezi

P.S. Hey Number guy.. WHats your real name???
Click to expand...

cylinder

No
Don't be cheap on the cylinder, it will cost you too much.

You want 20 ton, but a 4 inch cylinder will need pressure over 3000psi to get that.
Use a 5 inch cylinder at 2000 psi
What you save on the smaller cylinder you would spend double or triple on high pressure pumps, hoses, controls.

You can order exactly what cylinder you need through princess auto, but it's not on the website
The contact info is here
http://www.case-ingersoll-tractors.com/files/hydraulic-components/HYD-CAN.pdf

Get the largest rod diameter you can get.
If you bend a rod you need a new cylinder.

I expect a good cylinder will be very close to $400


Get a PA paper catalogue for their best info


Then add a motor and mounts, reservoir, filter, hoses, controls.







Pump
You need about 20 cubic inches per second

then convert to gallons per minute
20/231 x 60

5+ gpm MINIMUM


http://www.princessauto.com/driveline/hydraulics/pumps/gear/8375370-hydraulic-gear-pump

Assume a 3400 rpm motor


That pump is on the very minimum
I would go with a bit higher flow, you can always slow it down with the flow restrictor I show.
Watch the specs, some pumps are made for snow plows and such only 900 psi


You can adjust the flow ram speed with this & it has built in relief valve
http://www.princessauto.com/driveli...69-30-gpm-adjustable-flow-control-with-relief


Salem is right, Surplus Center has some good prices, but shipping on this heavy stuff will kill the savings to Canada

Princess auto is a pretty good supplier for this stuff.
ONce you take in a basic outline of what you need, they should be able to help you.
Go in the weekdays, Daytime when the full time staff are working.


My name is Sam, but I answer to The Count here.
 
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Ok COunt.. SO you have built one.... Do you have a thread on yours???? I plan to order my steel this week.. Just need to figure out what I will need..

I know I am asking a lot on here... I hope I am not being a pain in the a$$

Thanks again

Dezi
 
Dezmond said:
Ok COunt.. SO you have built one.... Do you have a thread on yours???? I plan to order my steel this week.. Just need to figure out what I will need..
Click to expand...

No I don't have a thread on mine.

Follow Eric's info.
It's very good.


The only savings you can realize on his design is by having a smaller cylinder & pump
From our discussion above, you can see the savings aren't that much.

I would suggest to have all your main hydraulic components figured out first before you build the frame.
Especially the cylinder and the mounting it uses.
 
mgysgthath said:
Thanks again Count, those specifics will help me out as well ;)
Click to expand...

He specified 20 ton and 1 inch per second

That's on the minimum side of things

Doubling those specs costs very little on the upgrade.
Actually the cost difference between that pump and larger ones is zero.
The difference will be between motor HP and motors are the one thing in this build you can find used.


I like the specs in Erics's build much better.
If you don't need the capacity, you can turn it down.

Take Eric's specs and my posts as a start to do your own math.

Also see
The Baston book
http://www.dfoggknives.com/hydralic.htm

The Press gallery on Don Foggs site see all 5 pages

http://www.dfoggknives.com/pressgallery.htm


Indian geo's press
http://www.indiangeorgesknives.com/building_of_bertha.html
 
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I ordered Baton's book the other day when you mentioned it, but it will be a couple weeks getting here. I have Eric's CAD drawings and posts and plan to glean as much from it as I can. I want a bit beefier/faster press, more like Eric's because I will use it for drawing out as well. Eric and yourself mentioned a relief valve of some sort, which I definitely want to look into.. By specifics I meant the PA parts and suggestions, it's a good starting place and PA is local to me. ALso the PDF catalog of rams is a great help.
 
Some advise;

Use the biggest cylinder you can get for the specs desired - Especially for making billets.
You want the largest shaft possible. A 5" cylinder should be the minimum for pressing billets, as the side load can bend a smaller size piston shaft. 6" would be better.
Use a 16GPM pump at the minimum...or better, a 22GPM. Run it on a 5HP electric motor or a 10+ HP gas motor.
Decide how heavy the frame should be and double that. I'm not kidding when I say the people bend the frames on home built presses regularly. 8X6 I-beam with 1/2" thick webs is on the light side when doing 20-30 tons. 1" thick is better.
An H frame is stronger than a C frame.
Check that the ram and anvil are as close to parallel as possible.
Use a foot control to run the up and down. You need both hands to do billets.


A press isn't as fast as a power hammer, but it can hurt you just as bad. If you are not experienced with using one, get someone to show you how. At the minimum, watch four hours of good quality videos on using a forging press.


Skimp on anything when building a press....and you will be spending your money foolishly.
 
SOunds good.. I will make sure that the frame is done right.. I plan to get al the materials then send it to a fab shop to make sure all the welds are done right.. I can weld.. BUT!!! This is something I don't want to mess with.

As for foot switches... What do you search for and where? Also this will require additional wiring as well correct??

Thanks all
 
mgysgthath said:
I ordered Baton's book the other day when you mentioned it, but it will be a couple weeks getting here. I have Eric's CAD drawings and posts and plan to glean as much from it as I can. I want a bit beefier/faster press, more like Eric's because I will use it for drawing out as well. Eric and yourself mentioned a relief valve of some sort, which I definitely want to look into.. By specifics I meant the PA parts and suggestions, it's a good starting place and PA is local to me. ALso the PDF catalog of rams is a great help.
Click to expand...

http://www.princessauto.com/driveli...69-30-gpm-adjustable-flow-control-with-relief

This is the adjustable flow control and relief valve

If the pump you have is running to fast for you, you can turn it down.
This is why I would go with a higher pump, you can always slow it down with the turn of a screw.

As long as all the component pieces such as pump, hose and valves are rated high enough, you can also adjust the relief valve to run higher or lower pressure.
 
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