Making a Titanium UL Hatchet, advice?

I think some of you are getting hung up on how you would use this tool, rather than thinking about the tiny niche the tool is for.
An extra couple lbs is nothing going from your truck to a few km down a trail or into the back of your yard or whatever. But 25km in with 5km to go before camp you contemplate how important your tent is and if you really need that extra couple just in case meals. I'll start dumping water to save a bit of weight near the end of the day if I know I can fill up at camp.
I'm 5'10" and 150lbs. I'd say I'm well above average fitness. Every lb matters, just makes it more and more enjoyable the lighter you can get.
I'm going to use this to split a couple pieces of wood to get the fire going and other extremely light duties, might use it as a shovel more than an axe.
And at this point it's just a bit of seeing how light I can get it and still have some basic utility.
 
What you are intending on making is going to be pretty useless as a hatchet, meaning something that cuts using it's own weight when swung.
If that doesn't matter because you'll batton with it, then why not simply batton a light knife for as you say "to split a couple of pieces of wood"?
As far as I know, going ultralight means doing without unnecessary equipment, a hatchet for the majority is considered unnecessary.

I'll say it again, a hatchet with no weight (ok, very little) is just an odd shaped knife as it'll only be good for cutting (provided it's sharp enough) & useless for a hatchets intended purpose of chopping. You can have your own opinions but not your own laws of physics ;)

By the way, my small hatchet has an 8oz head & a handle 19" long that's 3.5oz, good luck making a long handle that is much lighter! The hickory I made it from felt very light.

Anyway, enjoy making it & good luck lets see the finished item.... :thumbsup:
 
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I'mSoSharp said:
What you are intending on making is going to be pretty useless as a hatchet, meaning something that cuts using it's own weight when swung.
If that doesn't matter because you'll batton with it, then why not simply batton a light knife for as you say "to split a couple of pieces of wood"?
As far as I know, going ultralight means doing without unnecessary equipment, a hatchet for the majority is considered unnecessary.

I'll say it again, a hatchet with no weight (ok, very little) is just an odd shaped knife as it'll only be good for cutting (provided it's sharp enough) & useless for a hatchets intended purpose of chopping. You can have your own opinions but not your own laws of physics ;)

By the way, my small hatchet has an 8oz head & a handle 19" long that's 3.5oz, good luck making a long handle that is much lighter! The hickory I made it from felt very light.

Anyway, enjoy making it & good luck lets see the finished item.... :thumbsup:
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A cutting froe and saw is what I currently carry. The froe only works with limited pieces of wood and and piece that doesn't work needs considerable effort to remove from the wood, once it's sunk in the 1.75" of its height then that's it, and the handle is so small getting it out sucks, at least with my useless hatchet I'll have a decent length handle and can sink the blade in 4+".

You should pick up a small piece of titanium, it's very light, deceiving. And once I skeletonize the handle I'm hoping incredibly light, if it's not lighter than a hickory handle maybe I'll look at that.
 
Jeff000 said:
A cutting froe and saw is what I currently carry. The froe only works with limited pieces of wood and and piece that doesn't work needs considerable effort to remove from the wood, once it's sunk in the 1.75" of its height then that's it, and the handle is so small getting it out sucks, at least with my useless hatchet I'll have a decent length handle and can sink the blade in 4+"
You carry a froe :eek:. Ever heard of making a quick wedge out of a branch? Maybe rather than more tools more knowledge is in order, that will weigh nothing ;)
If you want to make the funny shaped knife great, you don't have to justify it, it' be a fun project, just bear in mind there is a reason something like that is not widely used already.

Good luck with it :)
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You carry a froe :eek:. Ever heard of making a quick wedge out of a branch? Maybe rather than more tools more knowledge is in order, that will weigh nothing ;)
If you want to make the funny shaped knife great, you don't have to justify it, it' be a fun project, just bear in mind there is a reason something like that is not widely used already.


Good luck with it :)
 
I'mSoSharp said:
You carry a froe :eek:. Ever heard of making a quick wedge out of a branch? Maybe rather than more tools more knowledge is in order, that will weigh nothing ;)
If you want to make the funny shaped knife great, you don't have to justify it, it' be a fun project, just bear in mind there is a reason something like that is not widely used already.


Good luck with it :)
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You still need something to shape the branch and then drive it in.
Ideally I like to find stuff I can toss on the fire and call it a day.
A blade that I can hit with a log is a froe, is it not? My pocket knife wouldn't take that kind of abuse.
 
I'mSoSharp said:
As far as I know, going ultralight means doing without unnecessary equipment, a hatchet for the majority is considered unnecessary.
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Jeff,with all due respect but yeah,i'd try to re-calibrate your actual Requirements while out camping,and balance the tooling-up with the actual function.

I've read your thoughts on this,and as a sub-arctic dweller can't really see clear logic there.
Normally,just the saw suffices for everything,even if your heating device depends on a limited length of wood.
(couple years ago i was visited by a couple,friends from long ago,who bicycled down the Iditarod trail from Anchorage to Kotzebue.That's something like 1500 miles on snowmobile trail,carrying everything they needed,in the dead of winter...It was surprisingly little,even to me.They used one of them collapsable Ti stoves,and a little saw...i don't really see what one would do with a hatchet...).

I think I'mSoSharp's right,you may consider separating this potentially cool project from practicality,as it doesn't really want to fit into the reality of keeping warm and fed comfortably out in the woods.
I live not far from the Arctic circle,hundreds of miles from nearest road.Many here travel great distances,with dangerously little gear.And though most carry a hatchet,it's for a slightly different purposes,trail-cutting,making trap-sets,difficult situations where a heavy machine is stuck in very challenging terrain,or falling through the ice...Different scale of rigging,BTU requirements et c....Not quite from the ultra-light opera...:)

Not forcing it to serve a practical purpose won't take anything away from it's Cool Factor:),and i join the previous posters in wishing you the best of luck with it!
 
Jeff000 said:
I'll start by saying I know Ti isn't ideal. But follow that up with my goal is something I can carry backpacking, and saving weight. I'd really like it to be under 7oz with handle.

I am planning betta Ti, and precipitation hardening. And wrapping the handle with para-cord.
Thinking 4mm thick, and probably strategic weight reduction, I'd like to somehow make the back a little wider so it could be used as a crappy hammer but mostly so you could pound it into a log with another log type thing.

So with the idea of it needing to be light, do I have a chance of it not being useless? It's pretty expensive to fail hard at my attempt, lol.
I am a little worried about it's strength if used like a pry par a bit.
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Not sure what terrain or climate you usually hike. If you use hiking stick you might substitute one of them for DIY titanium head Ciupaga or Valaska. A lot of ultra light hikers substitute tents for tarp or hammock just to save on weight.
 
jake pogg said:
Jeff,with all due respect but yeah,i'd try to re-calibrate your actual Requirements while out camping,and balance the tooling-up with the actual function.

I've read your thoughts on this,and as a sub-arctic dweller can't really see clear logic there.
Normally,just the saw suffices for everything,even if your heating device depends on a limited length of wood.
(couple years ago i was visited by a couple,friends from long ago,who bicycled down the Iditarod trail from Anchorage to Kotzebue.That's something like 1500 miles on snowmobile trail,carrying everything they needed,in the dead of winter...It was surprisingly little,even to me.They used one of them collapsable Ti stoves,and a little saw...i don't really see what one would do with a hatchet...).

I think I'mSoSharp's right,you may consider separating this potentially cool project from practicality,as it doesn't really want to fit into the reality of keeping warm and fed comfortably out in the woods.
I live not far from the Arctic circle,hundreds of miles from nearest road.Many here travel great distances,with dangerously little gear.And though most carry a hatchet,it's for a slightly different purposes,trail-cutting,making trap-sets,difficult situations where a heavy machine is stuck in very challenging terrain,or falling through the ice...Different scale of rigging,BTU requirements et c....Not quite from the ultra-light opera...:)

Not forcing it to serve a practical purpose won't take anything away from it's Cool Factor:),and i join the previous posters in wishing you the best of luck with it!
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I'm hopeful it'll be more than cool factor. But time will tell. I've got someone that's going to help me fix up my model next week, hoping I'll be able to cut a couple prototypes before Christmas.

Some ultralite hikers I've met can be pretty crazy with how little they bring. I'm trying to stay under 20lbs but still carry a sleeping mat and things like that.

Kevin Houtzager said:
But thats the thing: You can't go to light, because weight actually matters on the head of the axe. Sinking in isn't about the length of the handle. It's about the force applied divided by the width of the edge.
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Right, but I can rest it on a piece of wood and then smash it in with a 8 lb piece of wood. Lots of weight there.


crbnSteeladdict said:
Not sure what terrain or climate you usually hike. If you use hiking stick you might substitute one of them for DIY titanium head Ciupaga or Valaska. A lot of ultra light hikers substitute tents for tarp or hammock just to save on weight.
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Rocky mountains, Central Alberta mostly, but we travel a lot for music and always find nice hikes in those areas, dud Texas twice, and Colorado in the last 6 months.
We are getting a different tent for this year, must be double shell for the wife, she really hates the condensation on the single shell. The one I'm looking for uses our hiking poles instead of bringing just tent poles.

I had thought about trying to use the pole, but couldn't figure out a way, or if the pole could take that abuse.
 
Jeff000 said:
Some ultralite hikers I've met can be pretty crazy with how little they bring. I'm trying to stay under 20lbs but still carry a sleeping mat and things like that.
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Camping,hiking,i.e. surviving in the wild is an exercise in Efficiency(gain and loss of energy equation).
Your main and most efficient energy source is your body,it produces a lot by using relatively little.
Conserving your heat-energy with a sleeping pad is a very worthwhile investment in the general energy budget.
The best,most insulating pads are also the lightest(those accordion jobs).A very good idea.

Ancient gear was mostly very light,furs are light,and the main part of the energy equation being the human body it's fit shape with a little help from gear was sufficient.
An ax wasn't a part of that gear.Axes and adzes were a tool-kit that probably was stationary at some boat-building site or some camp or other.
On an ultra-light trips only weapons were carried,on the more general moving about the women found all the wood for cooking and heat.
(women also carried most of the loads,and by all accounts didn't eat hardly at all,very efficient:)

Later,with the coming of the Europeans heavy,durable,cumbersome materials were used,leather,wool,canvas,metal of all sorts.Axes.
Axes (and metal pots) really came into vogue.Trips were top-heavy,involving transport,rigging,road-building,horse gear,cart repair,land clearing...
An ax was(quickly became) of course indispensable.

An ax was a tool of an economic venture,not of the loose-footed wanderings about,a tool that has to do with the sedentary pursuits,not nomadic.

Today when we hike to see cool places and to get away from our usual sedentary situations things again are turning to lightness of gear.
Synthetics lend themselves well to that.
But the basic physics as has been pointed out above didn't change:We use food to produce heat-energy,and then are smart about conserving it.
Good, bullet-proof sleeping bag(and mat) is a main tool.
(tent not so much.it contains too much air,and serves more psychologically,being reminiscent of the still air in most urban environments.it only needs to shed rain and snow,and doesn't need to be so tight as to condense.it just needs to shelter the bed-roll that performs the main function).

An ax has really no place it the energy equation of a foot-loose and fancy-free meanderings.It's the "fancy",part,i guess...Funny that,as it is a tool of stolid,purposeful homesteader rather than a traveler or a hunter...
(There was this custom during the Colonial period,people carried those cute little "bag-axes",super small...(i often wondered what all they used them for)...but even those weren't as light as you're planning.
(I do myself fancy an ax...but i travel by gas-powered boat or snowmachine,with entirely different load capacity,with all kinds of tools and chores to do...Was i to break down and be walking out of some place far,i'd take an ax with(especially in the winter,but summer too).But then it'd be a real ax,couple-three lbs and hickory,and that's a different deal...)
 
I hope we're not being too negative in this thread. You want to create something different; don't let us squash your creativity. It may end up being a favorite tool for the rest of your life. It may not work out, but at the least ya always learn something with projects like this.

I might also point out that light hatchets have been very popular for woods loafers at various points in history. Kephart loved his Colclesser "tomahawk" with an 8 ounce head. Nessmuk is often regarded as the father of the modern ultra light movement, and his double bitted hatchet weighed about a pound total. Have you already seen the long-running thread here about small and mini hatchets?
https://bladeforums.com/threads/the-mini-hatchet.1325146/
 
jake pogg said:
An ax was a tool of an economic venture,not of the loose-footed wanderings about,a tool that has to do with the sedentary pursuits,not nomadic.
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That sums it up nicely. If I'm thru-hiking a section of the Pacific Crest Trail or like then it's no axe. But if I'm planning to spend a few days fishing a group of high mountain lakes from a basecamp the it's axe, yes. Or in reality a light hatchet. Comfortable multi-night camp means bring a hatchet. Moving every day means no hatchet.
 
I am randomingly going to make a axe head from 1.25x4x6 titanium block. Machine the whole thing but use a traditional handle. I hope to be swinging it by the first of the year.
 
Boeing still does most of their titanium work themselves. Finding shops that can do the work to their exacting standards is difficult. One section of their Auburn plant is devoted to titanium work. Only highly skilled machinists work there. And it's a hot part of the plant because of all the autoclaves.
 
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