Mandatory weekly Taylor bashing

I have not mentioned it but I feel something is in the wind with Taylor I cannot put my finger on it but he has no major market as he thought he would. his obligations on honoring the old Schrade warranties has to say the least not won many friends. There are a few other tells ( so to speak ) I just do not know but perhapes living through 50 years of poker playing and 26 as a peace officer among some other interesting side trips sometimes gives you a feeling. I am sure his friends overseas would slit his throat as quickly as they did Schrades if it was to there advantage so who knows. Interesting to watch the hand play out. It is just the way you feel when the Crown Royal just aint as smooth as it should be and your drinking out of a already opened bottle. I guess we will have to see. LT
 
I recently listed more than ten patterns of fixed and folders that have been tooled, prototyped, tweaked and manufactured so far this year, with more slated to arrive shortly.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=364707&page=2

The cost here, there, anywhere to tool and ramp up production and import even one pattern would boggle your mind. Even if all the fees from licensing trademarks and designs were plowed back in, someone is holding some serious markers. Somewhere. Markers of that size DON'T go uncollected. It will, indeed, be interesting to watch the game played out.

Codger
 
One other point that I do not understand if the plan is as you mention to leave the marketing to the dealers my simple country boys opinion is that holding a revolver to ones forehead and pulling the trigger as many times as possible would be a better plan for survival. This strategy may work if you are dealing with small editions of high quality product and dealing with a limited market and number of dealers like A J RUSSELL ect. But Schrade ( ie the Baer brothers ) proved at least to me that lots of outs ie contract work ie Sears, Pennys and a myriad of others as well as a massive media blitz was the only way a more commercial product had any hope at all.

This is not being done from what I understand not because Taylor dosen't want it but, because other companies with more desirable products ( price and quality) are getting the nod. Lets face it, a Walmart is going to do the best it can and a company that does not honor its warranty obligations ( that came with the name and ip ) that is offering an inferior product will not prevail simply because it carries the name of a firm that fullfilled all those obligations in the past.

winning is not always just killing and eating the other guy the hard part is often in swallowing. LT
 
I believe you're thinking of the late Jim Parker. He bought Case, lost it through bankruptcy to River Associates (?), who then sold to Zippo in 1993.

Bill

P. S.
As usual I'm second best to a better/faster player. Sigh.
 
Well if nothing else we answered that question. Good night Jim you were to say the least an interesting person and no matter what anyone says you sure were well known. RIP . LT
 
I just looked over my notes and I have six fixed blades, eleven folders and a multitool, for a total of eighteen patterns that TBLLC is importing now. This does not include the rented IP knives, and a few like the sheep horn knives that I cannot document as being imported...yet.

The most that Imperial Schrade ever introduced in a single year was twelve (1990), and two of those were reissues where most of the tooling already existed, and two were varients of existing patterns...the 5OTG and 8OTY.

Codger
 
I would just like to know the quantity he is selling and where? Well what the heck he is a good old country boy. I would not be surprised that with his partners and the cards they play with there may well be an extra ace that I just havent figured out yet, heck a billion or two Chinese can't be wrong. I have faith in T and his associates to come out on top. Country boys will survive. as the song says. Ah Sooo.
 
I'm not certain how Taylor can effectively market Schrade products. They certainly can't say that they are carrying on a 100 year old tradition from one of the finest cutlery makers in the country when they are selling a product made in China.

I also wouldn't count out these China made knives just yet. The new Boker Bonsai line is made in China. Just for the heck of it, I bought a Bonsai stockman for just $11.00, and I could not believe the quality of this knife. Granted, I did not use it or sharpen it, so I can't judge the quality of the steel used, but for fit and finish, the Chinese are going to give everybody a run for their money.

When I was a kid, the words "Made In Japan" had all sorts of negative connotations and was something to avoid. I don't have to tell you about Japanese products in the marketplace today. The stuff I buy from Japanese owned companies is made in Singapore or Malaysia because I can't afford to buy anything actually made in Japan anymore.
 
Does any of the more serious Schrade Collecters see a time when there will
be a large market segmentation between the Chinese schrades and the US
made Schrades? Say ten yrs from now it will be "That's a nice OT, but I have
an original US made OT".
 
Like I said, I was just bashing. It's quite possible the Chinese knives are good, and I was actually planning on getting one sometime to see. Still, the whole concept of it happening to Schrade makes me mad.

Fixer27-
It's sad, but I think the whole history of the REAL Schrade and its relatives will be mostly forgotten in time. Maybe not for 20 years. If the company just crashed and died people might remember because there will always be a few real Schrades floating around. But with imported replacements taking the name(s), Schrade will come to be known as just another branded import. The market will be flooded with the new stuff and that's what most people will know of that name.
 
Here's a thought.. If Taylor/Sch**** crashes, will their short-lived and unloved products become 'collectibles'?

Look at knife manufacturing history and you'll find lots of changes in ownership and such in individual brands. It all adds to the cache of the brand. Suppose a 'white knight' arrives to again buy out the Schrade name, and put them back into production in the USA. At one time, knife manufacturers used their political clout to put tarriffs and such into place. Is there now a small movement against China-made products? A possible embargo against Chinese made products if they make too many overt actions against US policy and interests? Could happen. A quick and brutal re-taking by the Red Chinese of Taiwan could result in that sorta thing. Another enterprizing person may buy the Scrhade name and perhaps have them made in Germany. Would that be more palatable to the knife buying public? Suppose Walmart moved back to their 'made in America' roots... That particular retailer carries a big economic stick.

An example: 'Hammer' was once a great name. Then Imperial bought it, used the brand on tin-shell/ colorfully handled cheapies. I have dozens of beautiful Imperial/Hammer toothpicks, and some of the weren't cheap. Saw a mint 'Budweiser' handled one sell for $130 once. The switchblades in candy stripe easily go for $75-100. In my book folks, that's collectible, particularly when you consider many of these sold for a buck or two or were given away as advertising items (like little pull-ball George Schrade springers that list for $200).

Will any of us one day be buying up Taylor-Schr***s to fill holes in our collections? We'll see.

In short... As I write above, anything can happen. The Schrade name still lives on, it's not dead yet, it's history is still being compiled.

This is all being written at 4:30 am. May not make any sense later.

Phil
 
lt632ret said:
I have not mentioned it but I feel something is in the wind with Taylor I cannot put my finger on it but he has no major market as he thought he would. his obligations on honoring the old Schrade warranties has to say the least not won many friends. There are a few other tells ( so to speak ) I just do not know but perhapes living through 50 years of poker playing and 26 as a peace officer among some other interesting side trips sometimes gives you a feeling. I am sure his friends overseas would slit his throat as quickly as they did Schrades if it was to there advantage so who knows. Interesting to watch the hand play out. It is just the way you feel when the Crown Royal just aint as smooth as it should be and your drinking out of a already opened bottle. I guess we will have to see. LT
Click to expand...
If it were only true.. It was Wally-world that slit the throat of Schrade. They'er slitting ours as well, but no bodys paying attention. :(
 
This is interesting:
http://www.taylorbrandsllc.us/Contact/repairs.cfm

"REPLACEMENT POLICY

In 2004, Imperial Schrade went out of business. Taylor Brands, LLC purchased the trademarks, all patents and molds for all Schrade products. We, under the Taylor name, will be continuing the Schrade line of products. All previous product warranties set forth by Imperial Schrade are null and void.

If you have a defective product that was manufactured by Imperial Schrade through 2004, we may be able to replace your product at the discretion of Taylor Brands, providing that product/model is still being manufactured . Please be advised, if Taylor Brands is currently manufacturing your knife/tool and you choose to have it replaced, your original knife/tool will not be return."

Not that I might not rather have a broken Schrade in my collection than a new Taylor (or maybe I would want one, just to see), but it sounds like Taylor actually WILL replaced a Schrade, they just don't do "repairs" on them.

It's also interesting that they list the LB1, 2, and 3. It would be cool if they start making those, which I was sad to see drop from the real Schrade lineup.
 
As far as Wally world I believe many people understand what is going on but when dealing with a giant one can only wait for opportunity and simply do what they can until then. Perhapes that chance will never come ( in our time ). Frankly the populace is so badly manipulated in every aspect of life that this is just one point of those 1000 points of lite.

The fact is that everything is a collectable and in time is sought and increases in value. Regarding knives and the memorbilia surrounding them short lived companies are always highly sought after. Also as with anything the knowledge, provenance, and understanding regarding all aspects of the subject relates directly to value and rarity. This factor is why people buy 2000 dollar knives at auctions for under 10 dollars ( yes this does happen , not to me, but I know of many such stories ) . Saber es poder.

Once again the answer to the original question lies in the past or as the old quote goes they who understand the past control the future and they who control the future control the present. Given enough time all will be forgotten it is the nature of history that nothing is forever. How we let that fact dictate our opinions and actions is our choice. Now that I have babbled all that philosophical junk. Lets talk money.

People collect everything and anything. modern and old Schrades will continue to be collected and people will continue to recognize the various parts of this companies history just as with every other company. Do you think collectors of Remington bullet knives have a problem distinguishing an original from those made today? Schrade cuts Schrade waldens and various editions have escalated and will continue to increase in value. As with any investment knowing what is rare and will increase the fastest and most is the key. That is why there are investment brokers for the stock market and experts in every field. Often circumstance ( as with anything look at gasoline due to hurricanes ). dictates various changes in values. Recently ebay ( in its infinite wisdom ) decided that automatics ( switchblades) of any type can no longer be listed since it violates the federal law stating that these items cannot be sold interstate. I will not go into the various nuances and factors which circumvent this idiot law but this was ebays decision. As you know I have petitioned and fought for years to have these laws changed into some semblence of sanity, to no avail. Still the fact is that just as prohibition made people rich. This ruling from ebay increased the value (due to accessability and the mystery of there illegality) of these items from 10 to 25 percent in one day. That may not seem like a big deal but if you happen to have 500 thousand dollars worth stashed it makes for a decent weeks wages.

The problem with (collecting for profit) the later american Schrades is that there were so many that it will be a long time before there is ever a shortage. Schrade Cuts were made from 04 until 46. They have appreciated quite well and are I assure you are well recognized. Schrade Waldens also 46-72 also are quite obvious to anyone familiar with the subject. This will I am sure be the case with the later US Schrades and whatever comes next no matter what the term of the next genre.

The initial price increase ( last winter ) after the Schrade closing was no different than what happens in any field when there is a change that people do not really understand. The general public had money and no idea of how many of the regular lines were out there everyone wanted one of everything ( before they were gone)and became an expert because they had there grandfathers 15-OT. A friend of mine was approached by an old man who asked him if he wanted to buy four Schrade knives he had, three were broken and junk ( worth nothing). the other was at best a 20 to 30 dollar knife ( I just bought a nicer one for 5 dollars ). He gave the guy 40 dollars because he felt sorry for him. The guys grandaughter called up my friend and gave him hell for taking advantage of her grandfather. Luckily for my friend since she forced him to take the money and give back the knives. As with any field a little knowledge is often worse than total ignorance.

If you collect for your own pleasure that is one thing. If you collect because you have the need for tools that you use that is another thing if you collect because you wish to make a profit that is still another factor. Or if you collect for all those reasons and because you are addicted to these items and there history then you are a complete mental case, similar to myself. LT
 
I'm gonna guess Taylor doesn't do repairs because he want's to sell another knife...and more so, because he doesn't have any cutlers. Oh, wait...he sorta does...but they're a few zillion miles away. :rolleyes:

Got to give him credit for marketing saavy...he'll maybe replace your American made knife with a $3.00 offshore version as a show of goodwill. Some folks will think that's a good deal. I wonder if anyone will cobble from the parts of returned Schrades to sell "Antique" Schrades or the dreaded "New, Old Stock" knives on the above mentioned auction site?

Naaaawh. :(

Bill
 
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