Manix 2 CF/S90V

Great pics, Knifenut1013, as always. That's about how I would expect it to look after a beating like you put on it. It's not surprising to see it cuts like a sharper knife either after my experience with it at low sharpness, it just keeps slicing as if it was a good deal sharper. I guess that is pretty much the deal with S90V, you get super edge retention and low sharpness slicing ability at the expense of taking a great polished edge like M4.

Thanks, Sodak! You don't have to send me more gear, but if you do I'll try it out. I hope you can get your hands on one of these Manix 2 S90V's as well. It won't beat out you Phil Wilson 10V, but it can slice some stuff up.

Hardheart, great call on that shapener. The best of both worlds in your pocket on one hone.

Mike
 
I just added some bad pics, but they are better than nothing. I will get this knife and many others Rockwell tested soon, and may end up getting this one re-heat treated to 61 RC. It would be interesting to see the performance difference. I may have to run a wider microbevel than usual at the higher hardness, but I'm sure bringing the steel up to it's maximal useable hardness would help edge retention. I will be interesting to see how hard Spyderco heat treats it, I believe I've heard 58-59, which is pretty impressive considering I heard it takes serious heat to get this steel hard. 58-59 RC also leaves a little room for a tad more toughness on twisting cuts, ect., but I'm thinking the edge is thick enough and a microbevel could be made wide enough to make 61 RC work just fine on the Manix 2 CF unless you make a really stupid twisting cut to blow out the edge. We'll see, after some more testing I might not even think it is worth getting re-hardened. So far it certainly holds an edge well and sharpens crisp, so it certainly is a good heat treat as is. The steel junky in my always makes me think about the "what if" scenario and pushing it up on the hardness to the highest it can go.

Mike
 
It would be very interesting to see how S90V performs at 61. I don't think it would be too brittle, it's just not usually hardened that high because of the high temps required and high vanadium content prevents you from getting it as hard as other steels (hence, the Japanese dislike high vanadium contents in their steels). In my past experience bumping M2 up to 64 and 1095 up to 65, it allowed the edge to be made more acute as the higher hardness resisted edge deformation better. The steels were still quite tough, I sacrificed maybe 25% impact toughness according to the charts, but transverse impact toughness actually went up.

In any case, 2 rc points means 77% better edge retention in theory, but if you use a more acute angle at the same time, it will see an entire magnitude better edge retention.
 
cotdt said:
I've been using my 52100 Mule as my fiberglass cutting knife because it's tough and quick to resharpen.
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BINGO! And that's the problem with using performance on fiberglass as a deciding factor in steel selection; it will destroy anything in short order, and those of us who cut it for a living tend to favor things that are easy to resharpen because in the end, we'll be doing a whole lot of that.

If you're curious as to what I normally use, it's right here:

8203 Boning Knife

Craptastic 420 stainless, but with the bevel taken down a bit with a fine file and with a resharpening every couple of minutes, it does the job. The curved blade helps in carving V's into the hull board when manufacturing beam wraps. This is a crap job, and we use crap knives for it. :D I just experiment a bit on the side with nicer stuff to see if a change would be worthwhile. I believe that crap knives are traditional for this work for a reason.

Gunmike? Play around with a coarser edge finish and see if you like it. I'm using an EZE-Lap medium (400#) and it seems to be responding well to this. I'm following the factory bevel, whatever angle that happens to be at -- I'm not comfortable changing that yet. (And its famed wear resistance? Holy shit, this stuff is a bear to sharpen! :) I wouldn't want to use anything less than diamonds unless power tools are involved.)
 
Thanks for the info Dave. I really like the hair popping sharpness the 320 grit DMT Coarse gives, it should be a good performer. Especially when you factor in that it takes less than a minute to put a quick microbevel on with a DMT Coarse, while 15-20 minutes to get a .05 micron edge on it may seem like a waste of time if it only dulls out to DMT Coarse levels in a few cuts. Practice will tell. I may not get to test much with this knife in the next couple weeks though as I am probably sending it off for Rockwell testing tomorrow. I'll report back with the results.

Mike
 
S90V performs great at 1 micron, its also the steel that made me buy diamond compounds.......hint, hint ;)
 
knifenut1013 said:
S90V performs great at 1 micron, its also the steel that made me buy diamond compounds.......hint, hint ;)
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Don't worry, my diamond spray loaded strops will get a workout on this knife! It will be very interesting to compare .25 micron diamond to .3 micron and even .05 micron AO lapping films. The lapping films definately increased the sharpness, but the diamonds should cut it faster and cleaner. I just need to not roll the darn edge on the soft leather. I am so set in my ways with my glass backed lapping film that I don't take the time to practice proper technique on my strops. In theory that diamond should leave a clean, toothy for the grit finish as it should go right through the Vanadium carbides that the AO supposedly doesn't cut. I guess since the knife keeps getting sharper on the AO lapping film it cuts enough of the other carbides to get the better sharpness, but leaves some sharpness on the table if it just yanks out the Vanadium carbides instead of cutting them.

Got to go, my M4 Mule is about to skin a very large boar my brother in law just shot. I'll maybe start another thread on how a .05 micron finished M4 Mule performs on a pig, including bone contacts at a 20-24 degree included angle.

Mike
 
gunmike1 said:
Got to go, my M4 Mule is about to skin a very large boar my brother in law just shot. I'll maybe start another thread on how a .05 micron finished M4 Mule performs on a pig, including bone contacts at a 20-24 degree included angle.

Mike
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Oh what fun. If you cut yourself with that knife, don't think happy thoughts!
 
S90V will get very sharp when you use 0.5 and 0.25 but I would not bother, it seems to loose too much of its great cutting power after 1.0.

I would think that using your new 16000 shapton (lucky bastid :p) and a quick strop at 1 micron would be a perfect finishing step.
 
S90V will get very sharp when you use 0.5 and 0.25 but I would not bother, it seems to loose too much of its great cutting power after 1.0.
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I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks this. I like the crispness of the diamonds but I'll leave the smaller ones for my ZDP and M4 blades.

I've found if I get the angles accurate and do my job right I get enough performance never going above my 8000 grit DMT's, with strop. In fact, It'll cut like a beast at 2,000, and keep cutting. This is truly a super steel.

I really want to get a Phil Wilson 10V blade fully hard. I'm too broke with all the surgeries but my collecting/accumulating won't be complete without it. I've heard it even significantly out works S90V without being worse to sharpen, with probably the practical peak of wear resistance in knife steels that hold their strength enough to really work them ( not chopping of course, but minor bone impacts while skinning etc.) at decent geometries for steel of this class.

If that falls through, One day I'll get around to finishing up the slab of S125V I have stashed away for a future knife. I'd probably draw back the hardness on it to keep it from chipping though, which is why I'd like to stay with 10V for what would be my "reference standard" .

Sorry for daydreaming in your thread mike.
 
Well I want a knife made out of diamond. I don't care if it is difficult to sharpen.
 
knifenut1013 said:
S90V will get very sharp when you use 0.5 and 0.25 but I would not bother, it seems to loose too much of its great cutting power after 1.0.

I would think that using your new 16000 shapton (lucky bastid :p) and a quick strop at 1 micron would be a perfect finishing step.
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My Shapton is .92 micron, maybe a tiny stropping for burr removal would be good, but there was no detectable burr after raising the angle a degree or two on the 16000 grit Glasstone and it was hair whittling sharp and still had some good teeth to it. I'm sure under 400x I would have seen more than my 100x microscope as far as a burr, but I agree that the extra polish does't seem to help the steel too much past this. The edge loses a lot of toothiness to get that better push cutting sharpness, maybe too much. Again, I have to play with the finishes on this, but I definately like the feedback my Glasstones give me over what I get from the lapping film (which give you no feedback).

Mike
 
The Mastiff said:
I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks this. I like the crispness of the diamonds but I'll leave the smaller ones for my ZDP and M4 blades.

I've found if I get the angles accurate and do my job right I get enough performance never going above my 8000 grit DMT's, with strop. In fact, It'll cut like a beast at 2,000, and keep cutting. This is truly a super steel.

I really want to get a Phil Wilson 10V blade fully hard. I'm too broke with all the surgeries but my collecting/accumulating won't be complete without it. I've heard it even significantly out works S90V without being worse to sharpen, with probably the practical peak of wear resistance in knife steels that hold their strength enough to really work them ( not chopping of course, but minor bone impacts while skinning etc.) at decent geometries for steel of this class.

If that falls through, One day I'll get around to finishing up the slab of S125V I have stashed away for a future knife. I'd probably draw back the hardness on it to keep it from chipping though, which is why I'd like to stay with 10V for what would be my "reference standard" .

Sorry for daydreaming in your thread mike.
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No problem with the daydreaming, I do it quite a bit myself, and I dream of Phil Wilson's 10V as well. Phil recently said S110V is just as good as 10V but stainless, but I imagine it's a bit tougher to sharpen due to all that Chromium. S125V would be a great steel for a super slicer, just make sure it doesn't crack on you.

At 320 grit S90V impresses by popping hairs, and while it's push cutting sharpness at a given grit isn't as impressive as ZDP or M4, it's teeth and slicing aggression are very impressive at any given grit. I will try everything from my .05 micron back down to 320 to see what I like the best. I definately had no problems with any grit's sharpness (it just doesn't push cut with the best of them, but that's expected), in fact at 320 grit most non knife people would think it's scary sharp as hair popping sharp is something most people don't experience much. 1K-2K provides a decent enough push cutting sharpness while keeping serious teeth, and by the time I am done with my stones at 16K it is hair whittling plenty good while still having some teeth to it. I'll find my sweet spot with it. If I get it re-heat treated to 61 RC it will be really interesting to see how differently it acts on the stones.

Mike
 
gunmike1 said:
Got to go, my M4 Mule is about to skin a very large boar my brother in law just shot. I'll maybe start another thread on how a .05 micron finished M4 Mule performs on a pig, including bone contacts at a 20-24 degree included angle.

Mike
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I'm anxiously awaiting the results! Pics?
 
have'nt tried 90v, when you say coarse do you mean blue diamond? for skinning & flesh we pfefer the toothy edge of blue diamond.of course it's all about speed when cleaning animals.my exp. with other steels seem to show finer edges last longer,however we do'nt get ours as sharp as you guys.if we can slice print off magazine & not cut thru,that's good for us.i mean slice not scrape off print.we could'nt even hold a hair rather lone whittle one.you guys are real perfectionists.
 
DennisStrickland said:
have'nt tried 90v, when you say coarse do you mean blue diamond? for skinning & flesh we pfefer the toothy edge of blue diamond.of course it's all about speed when cleaning animals.my exp. with other steels seem to show finer edges last longer,however we do'nt get ours as sharp as you guys.if we can slice print off magazine & not cut thru,that's good for us.i mean slice not scrape off print.we could'nt even hold a hair rather lone whittle one.you guys are real perfectionists.
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The Blue DMT stone is the coarse grit (320). I use the DMT Diasharp plate, it is the same grit but doesn't have the holes to catch knife tips like the blue stone does, plus it flattens waterstones real nice. S90V at that grit has a really toothy edge that easily mows all of the hair off your arm, popping those hairs out of the way. That is very good sharpness for that grit, especially since I really wasn't trying for top notch sharpness at that grit, I just de-burred it after rebevelling the knife. I bet it would skin more than one large pig (maybe a few) at that sharpness and coarse grit with ease and the teeth would aggressively slice the skin off. After I get the knife back from getting rockwell tested I will test that edge vs. super polished and see what happens. I may also get it hardened up to 61 RC for the ultimate in S90V performance as well, but the Spyderco heat treat sure isn't bad.

Mike
 
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