Marketing gone too far with "Super Steels"

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snippy said:
"For Sale: Super steel Super knife. Never used or sharpened."

Very Sad.

Eric
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Why sad? Be glad! That leaves piles of 1095 carbon steel and 440 stainless knives for those of us satisfied with those! In fact I just bought a 100 year old Germania cutlery slipjoint boys' knife in carbon steel for less than half the price of a Rough Rider!! So many to choose from and so little time!
 
Hi, I'm NeilB and I'm a steel snob.

That was only partly tongue in cheek as I really do enjoy the premium steels and I'm prepared to pay for them. Still, I have a number of knives in 8Cr13MOV, AUS-8, and yes, even 440C. ;b

But, I really like my D2, S30V, S35VN, S90V, S110V, M4, M390, Cruwear, VG-10, and XHP. I'm also a fan of AEB-L, but I'm not sure I'd call it a "super steel". Probably "premium" describes it best.

Really, what I've found is that I just like knowing what kind of steel it is. I'd also like to know more about the heat treat process and I'd like each of my blades to be hardness tested, but I'm a geek; I like that sort of thing. I don't expect others to necessarily share my particular obsessions.

I've also found that I will buy a knife just to try a new steel. I'm hesitating to pull the trigger on a Spyderco K2 because of the well described quirks of the design, but I can feel the 10V calling to me! Fallkniven also has some sweet powder metallurgy knives I'd like to try at some point. If I were back working contract instead of direct and if I didn't have a girl in college, I'd already have tried all these and more!
 
NeilB said:
Hi, I'm NeilB and I'm a steel snob.

That was only partly tongue in cheek as I really do enjoy the premium steels and I'm prepared to pay for them. Still, I have a number of knives in 8Cr13MOV, AUS-8, and yes, even 440C. ;b

But, I really like my D2, S30V, S35VN, S90V, S110V, M4, M390, Cruwear, VG-10, and XHP. I'm also a fan of AEB-L, but I'm not sure I'd call it a "super steel". Probably "premium" describes it best.

Really, what I've found is that I just like knowing what kind of steel it is. I'd also like to know more about the heat treat process and I'd like each of my blades to be hardness tested, but I'm a geek; I like that sort of thing. I don't expect others to necessarily share my particular obsessions.

I've also found that I will buy a knife just to try a new steel. I'm hesitating to pull the trigger on a Spyderco K2 because of the well described quirks of the design, but I can feel the 10V calling to me! Fallkniven also has some sweet powder metallurgy knives I'd like to try at some point. If I were back working contract instead of direct and if I didn't have a girl in college, I'd already have tried all these and more!
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A very good illustration of what I was talking about. Without this collector enthusiasm, we would all only own one knife and it might be replaced every four or five years when the one was lost or worn out. And we are such a small market really that there is a lot of competition for our interests. Without our support, few cutleries would continue to exist because they cannot compete with the bulk of the user market left, that of "gas station knives" for people who don't know or care the differences.
 
ricklee4570 said:
There is a difference: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...cutting-5-8-quot-rope?highlight=ankerson+edge
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Yes, scientifically there really is a difference. However, that difference doesn't really matter to some people. It may well be irrelevant given their usage and sharpening skills. So, I get that premium steels aren't for everyone. Why pay the price differential if you don't get the enjoyment? I'm totally fine with that. I'm also fine with people buying 1095 blades. The more the merrier!
 
I like using "super" steels, and I like seeing how "super" they really are. So far, most of them have lived up to the title in one way or another, but there are some that are a little more hype than reality, and that is going to be the truth in many cases no matter what the product is or who is buying it.

I really enjoy M390 and it's analogs (CTS-204p, 20CV), and while I acknowledge I don't need a steel like that for EDC, I like only having to rarely touch up my blade instead of having to sharpen it repeatedly and strop it every night (yes, if I were using 440C I would likely need to at least touch it up every night with my EDC use), so I like steels in that category.

S90V is a newer addition to my list, and I am so far enjoying it greatly as well. I still need to have the edge on the knife in question re-profiled to a little better cutting geometry, but I new I would have to do that when I bought it, and I am seeing how the slightly more obtuse edge holds up first just for reference.
Some steels are just fun to test. Vanax 35 (AKA just "Vanax") is a steel that I really want to get more of to test more, but it isn't one that is easy to find, and other than a small fixed blade I had made for testing, I haven't been able to get my hands on any of it. Very weird properties in the steel though, and it performs insanely well.

Overall, I don't think this is a step too far in any way, but just another way for them to reach out to a specific market in order to cater to the wants of their consumers more. I don't think it's ever really a bad idea for a company to do that, especially since this isn't really harmful in any way or anything.
 
ricklee4570 said:
There is a difference: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...cutting-5-8-quot-rope?highlight=ankerson+edge
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Right. But the difference is so inconsequential that to most people it doesn't beg a moment's thought. Few of even us worry about how many times a blade will cut a 5/8" rope before dulling. Few care to watch youtube videos of blade steel comparisons. For that group who enjoy this obsession, there are makers who will cater to them by continually using some new mystical alloy with some catchy moniker attached. Same for the "survival knife" and "bushcraft knife" genre. Still, nothing at all wrong with their products or advertising to their target market. It has always been this way. Look up the history and marketing of Webster Marbles early last century. And the rise of "outing" and outers' and sportsmans' pattern knives. Recognize a market and exploit it. Use celebrities to endorse it. Dall DeWeese. Ted Williams. Don't worry about advertising and marketing banter of knives which don't interest you or fit your needs and interests.
 
I think the OP and I may the only ones that actually looked at the link in his post... :rolleyes:

It lists the "super steel" knives they carry. That's it. What "hype"? Don't like "super steels"? Don't click on it! :D

If they were wise, they'd also have a similar link to guide folks directly to all the simple "carbon" steel knives, too. They're just making it easier for their customers to find what they want. Other than blatant and really dumb copyright infringement, I don't get the controversy, or why this thread was even started.... *shrug*
 
Preaching to the choir here.. realistically, how many of us take our purchasing cues from ads like those?

In any case, I've come to appreciate some of these 'super steels'. Even when doing nothing more than occasional light cutting tasks, I found steels such as AUS 8, ATS 34 and 154 CM to be wanting in terms of durability and edge retention.
 
james terrio said:
I think the OP and I may the only ones that actually looked at the link in his post... :rolleyes:

It lists the "super steel" knives they carry. That's it. What "hype"? Don't like "super steels"? Don't click on it! :D

If they were wise, they'd also have a similar link to guide folks directly to all the simple "carbon" steel knives, too. They're just making it easier for their customers to find what they want. Other than blatant and really dumb copyright infringement, I don't get the controversy, or why this thread was even started.... *shrug*
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No, I read before I wrote, and it seemed pretty innocuous to me as well. The hype in question would be the hype surrounding certain blade steels, and I don't see how selling knives made from these steels is in anyway offensive. People like them. There seems to be more bullshit and 'hype' coming from those people who feel they have to convince everyone else that M390 and Vanax are somehow going to destroy the knife industry. I get it. You're too cool for super steel. I like to have choices, whether it's 1095 or S110V. :D (the first part was a quick response to the quote, but the last part is not directed at James Terrio, obviously).
 
What I really want to see is a bunch of generic bellied-edge type x-acto blades, each with knife-like bevel angles, made and heat-treated in all the different steels, this mailed to a large number of Bladesforums members, with no indication as to steel content for each numbered blade, then see what the edge-holding poll ranking result is, according to all those huffing and puffing about steel performance...

I think it would be quite funny if it turns out all the steels end up more or less dead even...

Come to think of it, I wonder who among those polled would want to make their own ranking result public... Yikes...

Gaston
 
Gaston444 said:
What I really want to see is a bunch of generic bellied-edge type x-acto blades, each with knife-like bevel angles, made and heat-treated in all the different steels, this mailed to a large number of Bladesforums members, with no indication as to steel content for each numbered blade, then see what the edge-holding poll ranking result is, according to all those huffing and puffing about steel performance...

I think it would be quite funny if it turns out all the steels end up more or less dead even...

Come to think of it, I wonder who among those polled would want to make their own ranking result public... Yikes...

Gaston
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Most of these steels are made for industrial applications where real results count, and cost real money.
The differences in how various steels perform are real; whether you or some other guy using a knife would notice a difference is up for debate.
 
Yes, and 440C is still the industry standard by which all industrial stainless steels are measured...

Gaston
 
stabman said:
Most of these steels are made for industrial applications where real results count, and cost real money.
The differences in how various steels perform are real; whether you or some other guy using a knife would notice a difference is up for debate.
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Exactly.
The people that probably couldn't tell the difference, would be the ones that are poo-pooing what others choose to buy and actually use the hell out of.
It's the same old "I don't have it or like it, so it sucks" routine. I have nothing against any decent quality steel, but some do perform much better than others.
 
stabman said:
Most of these steels are made for industrial applications where real results count, and cost real money.
The differences in how various steels perform are real; whether you or some other guy using a knife would notice a difference is up for debate.
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I know for a fact different steels perform differently. But I also know for a fact that I am one of the people who would not be able to tell the difference between steels unless they were significantly different. I kinda look at it like this. Most people who buy a supercar such as a ferrari or a lamborghini will never fully realize the potential their car has. But that doesnt mean people stop wanting them. And even though I dont think I am qualified to speak about the majority of super steel and its performance, I still like having it due to pride in ownership. Just like I enjoy that my watch has a Valjoux 7750 movement even though a rhonda quartz would tell better time and less maintenance. But even though I am ignorant to various steels aside from my selfish wants I cant deny that there are those who can tell a difference. But lets be real, there are a ton of guys who are full of it, lol.
 
I really enjoy checking out super steels and own a bunch of them. Realistically, I could get by fine with a AUS8 or Chinese CR steel because I do use any of my knives in heavy duty work outside of my machete, and it is 1095.
 
PURPLEDC said:
I know for a fact different steels perform differently. But I also know for a fact that I am one of the people who would not be able to tell the difference between steels unless they were significantly different. I kinda look at it like this. Most people who buy a supercar such as a ferrari or a lamborghini will never fully realize the potential their car has. But that doesnt mean people stop wanting them. And even though I dont think I am qualified to speak about the majority of super steel and its performance, I still like having it due to pride in ownership. Just like I enjoy that my watch has a Valjoux 7750 movement even though a rhonda quartz would tell better time and less maintenance. But even though I am ignorant to various steels aside from my selfish wants I cant deny that there are those who can tell a difference. But lets be real, there are a ton of guys who are full of it, lol.
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That sounds about right. I still don't get what the problem is. Unlike other industries, knife sellers are not all that aggressive, because it's such a niche market. Steel manufacturers wouldn't give a shit if knives suddenly disappeared. Or they'd feel the bite, but they'd survive. Cutlery represents a very small part of their sales, and most steels are developed for industrial applications. So most of the 'hype' comes from knife owners, whether it's accurate or not. The Knifeworks ad is a model of restraint compared to some advertising I've seen. It doesn't make any specific claims that could be called misleading, IMO. If they want to call Elmax 'super-steel', that's fine. It's a meaningless term anyway.

I find it funny that almost every time someone dismisses a steel like M390, S110V, etc. as being virtually indistinguishable from other varieties, they bring up a steel they consider to be a great alternative, like 440C, or AEB-L, or 1095. If the differences between steels are irrelevant, you'd use whatever 8CrMoV PoS costs the least, and you won't have an old-timey favorite -- all steels are created equal. They want style points for not getting roped in by the trends like everyone else.
 
Sikael said:
That sounds about right. I still don't get what the problem is. Unlike other industries, knife sellers are not all that aggressive, because it's such a niche market. Steel manufacturers wouldn't give a shit if knives suddenly disappeared. Or they'd feel the bite, but they'd survive. Cutlery represents a very small part of their sales, and most steels are developed for industrial applications. So most of the 'hype' comes from knife owners, whether it's accurate or not. The Knifeworks ad is a model of restraint compared to some advertising I've seen. It doesn't make any specific claims that could be called misleading, IMO. If they want to call Elmax 'super-steel', that's fine. It's a meaningless term anyway.

I find it funny that almost every time someone dismisses a steel like M390, S110V, etc. as being virtually indistinguishable from other varieties, they bring up a steel they consider to be a great alternative, like 440C, or AEB-L, or 1095. If the differences between steels are irrelevant, you'd use whatever 8CrMoV PoS costs the least, and you won't have an old-timey favorite -- all steels are created equal. They want style points for not getting roped in by the trends like everyone else.
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Or they have used the classic cutlery steels for a half century or more and don't see the need to change for the sake of change. The repurposed designer steels are good for people who are not satisfied with those and want something different. Or for some few, to make up for their deficiency in sharpening skills. It's all good and no one is forced to buy any alloy they don't want.
 
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