Martial Arts for My Niece

C

Cuttin' Craig

Joined
Jun 9, 2001
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346
I got a call from my mom last night concerning my 16 year old Niece. It seems that there was a boy in one of her classes who was shooting spitballs into the back of her hair. She told him to quit it, but he continued to do so.

She warned him to stop or she was going to slug him. He didn't, and She did. She knocked him out of his desk and onto the floor (Good shot, I'd say:D ) The Teacher and class erupted in laughter at this, and damaged His manliness, evidently. They both visited the pricipal's office. She was exonerated and he was given a week of in school suspension.

After his time was served, This "Manly" 15 year old waited for my Niece in the luchroom and punched her in the face. She showed exeptional control and didn't retailiate. ( The party would have been "on" if I'd been in her shoes) He was hauled off by the police in cuffs, Juvy, and expulsion.

My Sister is concerned that this little ba$tard won't let this lie, I think we've seen the last of him. My Nephew ( Senior in the same school) has a friend who works in the office who is going to get this individuals pertinent info for me. If This doesn't close the book on further contact, Uncle Craig will have to have a Polite discussion with him.

As a result of the incident, My Niece wants to start learning Martial Arts as a form of self defense. She is rather petite at 5'0" and 100 Lbs. Based on her size and weight, what would be the most effective Martial art for her to learn? She has a friend who is taking kickboxing and she was thinking about that, but I'm unsure what would best suit her. I've never studied a MA (Except Joint manipulation in the Police academy) So I'm looking to ya'll for practical advice.

Thanks!

-Craig
 
Nothing will work as an overnight fix.

A -good- women oriented self-defense class might be the place to start.

For MA, If possible, find a school that teaches Tai Chi
(taijijuan)as a martial art.
Ask, what style taiji they teach?
If they can answer that saying Yang, Chen, Wu, Wu-Hao, or Sun
(there are others, but not common)then the next question is:
Where does the teacher fit into the lineage of that form?
If they do that, then they probably know what they are talking about.
If they sell a 'black belt' program for $x they are probably the McDojo crowd.
Ask who was the teacher and lineage of the kung fu instructor.
Sign her up for an applied Kung Fu class at least once a week.
Twice a week better.
Sign her up for 1-2 taiji classes per week.

The taiji teaches mental and physical balance.
The applied kung fu teaches movement patterns.
So does taiji, but both is best.

got to go.
 
I study Aikido at my college. It is the redirection of force and was designed for small people. (The Japanese are/were typically smaller than other Asian cultures.)
At a beginner level there is a lot of falling involved, the most important cause if there is a "Knock down drag out" you are going to the ground, also falling skills are good to have in everyday life. Joint locks, basic throws, and then sacrifice throws follow as the individual advances.

Whatever she learns, just make sure the instructor has legitimate credentials. There are a lot of meat-heads out there looking to get a person hurt.
 
I studied Aikido until I hurt my back (not from Aikido) a couple years back. A small woman can really put a hurting on you with this style, especially against someone who doesn't expect to be thrown to the ground or knows how to fall correctly!
 
taking the fact that u need to find a honest to goodness dojo for granted, there are a few MA applicable for "weaker" individuals. Aikido, Wing Tsung ( which is big in EU but not in the US, probably the best all around hand to hand class there is thoug). and finally kung fu styles, of which wing tsung is a derivative. mainly u want the "soft" MA, because arts like kickboxing depend on strength, as opposed to the redirection of force.
self defence classes are good if u find a good one. most arent. i thought a few myself back in EU. i also visited a number of them and found that most are not very applicable when the proverbial :barf: hits the fan.
hope all goes well.:cool:
 
Craig:

I agree that a women's self-defense/rape prevention class is the place to start. The local college/community college typically offers these. In addition to some basic fighting, they usually attempt to teach environmental awareness - which is most of the battle, IMO.

S.
 
I agree that the best place to *start* is with a womens self defense class such as "Model Mugging". They teach the women to hit HARD against a moving target (mugger) in a very heavily padded suit. The enviroment is very supportive, and a good one for women to learn in. Even your niece (who can evidently hit) may learn something from this.

I think it's important to realize that this is only a beginning point however, and I'd recommend she find a good teacher to take continuing classes. All styles come together at a certain level of proficiency (after many years), like the spokes of a wheel. This means there isn't a best style, only what works for *her*.

Find a teacher and school where she's comfortable, and as already noted, ask questions first. If they don't answer, or evade, walk away.
 
Awareness / Attitude / Action

Three legs of a tripod.

They all interact in every moment.

Someone with a victim attitude may be very aware,
but still act from the attitude of victim.

Action includes body language as well as possible self-defense skills.
It also includes common sense.
Martial arts require -Much- practice to be remembered in an emergency.
A good self-defense class teaches a person that it's OK to defend oneself,
and gives practice in being in a 'situation'.
An unskilled vioplent 'primative' response to an attack can persuade
most attackers to give up.
Most attackers (in commmon situations we're talking about here)
are trying to take advantage.
They aren't invested in getting themselves hurt in order to make a gain.

Avoiding/sidestepping trouble is the best defense.
And better to give up a purse/car than to get hurt.
Escape better than confrontation.

Once we engage the trouble we're in trouble;

But............

There is no justice in allowing someone to take advantage of us.
That only teaches them that they are allowed to do so;
and encourages them to repeat the offense.
 
Uncle Bill wrote concerning the Bilton khuk...if you're so inclined you can tape one to the inside of your thigh and play like you're a Sherpa girl.

The model mugging thing is probably the best thing to look into. It's effective in a short period of time. It also depends on your niece. Does she want to take up training on a regular basis? Also how long will she train for? Then the question of what style would be the most effective.

I personally prefer the "striking arts". I figure the holds and joint manipulations take longer to learn to use effectively. The strength differential between males and females is also an issue. Then again we're not talking about going 12 rounds in the ring. Basically perhaps do a little damage and escape or better still escape with no violence.

So, really I dunno. I'd have opinions for a male who wanted to train seriously for a few years. But depending on goals of your niece, the answer may be different.

Basically I answered nothing. Maybe I shouldn't have posted this. :yawn: I dunno.

I'll post it just for the sherpa girl comment. :D
 
Craig:

You're getting some great advice. I concur that your niece should start w/ a women's self-defense class. Aikido and Wing Tsun are two of my favorite martial arts I've studied, but require much practice before one can use them effectively.

Forget any art that emphasizes hard blocks or lots of punching and kicking. A smaller person is going to have a hard time defending themself against a bigger, stronger, and meaner opponent who can outreach them; even if they are proficient at such an art.

My personal favorites have been variations of Kali and Silat. They make effective use of short bladed knives, and emphasize disabling arm slashes and evasive footwork.
 
there is always the old stand by. The old fashioned kick in the groin. If anyone thinks not, tell us what good the young man in question is up to.:)
 
Originally posted by Pappy ...... The old fashioned kick in the groin.
Click to expand...
Makes me remember back to junior high school.

Huge football player backed me against the wall
and leaned into me with one hand on each shoulder.

Out of reflex I tapped him under the kneecap
with the toe of my shoe.

Never knew where that came from out of me.

He had an impressive look of shock & surprise as he
hopped/limped around holding his knee with both hands.

----------

Back to the original point from Pappy:

Again, in high school gymnastics I fell a few times
on the parallel bars, landing with a bar between my legs.

Never hit the family jewels so never felt any hurt from it.

Maybe kicking at them is different.
What's the target acquisition success rate? :rolleyes:

The taiji kick to the groin area is actually a lift kick
between the legs that accomplishes at least three distinct goals.
Trouble with that kick I'd think would be that you
could potentially end up with your foot/leg trapped.

Now a good strong kick to the knee might be easier
and potentially more disabling.

-----------

Maybe you should get her to strengthen her fingers so she
can grab whatever flesh is available and twist off a chunk.
That's a very persuasive, non-lethal, primitive move that
anyone could probably do in a crises.
 
Hi, Craig:

If its off to Martial Arts, I'd suggest one of the Okinawan forms of Karate, like Goshin Justsu. It is a hard art, like the Okinawan version of street fighting. No real locks or grappling, and it's 60% hand strikes and 40% kicking. It is not a pretty or sporty fighting style, but it is one designed to keep attackers at a distance. Easiest to find Goshin Jutsu folks in Pennsylvania and New York, but the Midwest and the West won't have it.

I'd avoid the Aiki- derivatives, just cause they take years to be effective. The Kung Fu idea is a good one.

Also, for quicker results, check out the combatives taught in the US Military:
http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/3-25.150/toc.htm
http://call.army.mil/products/sop/adams/chapter23.htm
Print this stuff out, then get together with her and try some of these out on each other, slowly to get the motions right (and so no one gets hurt!). These "moves" can be put into practice after a few hours of repetition. If you really get into it, try combinations. I think you'll find these techniques to be effective, but certainly use them responsibly. (Since Sept. 11, its hard to find this stuff on the internet, especially the pressure point stuff.)

You'll find that these moves dovetail nicely with certain matrial arts from which they are derived, like Ju Jitsu.

Pay close attention to the hold breaks, they are invaluable.

Keith
 
I sincerely wish your niece luck and success in learning how to protect herself, it's a good thing for any woman to do. Still, I keep thinking about the low life punk that punched her in the face. Does'nt this hero have parents? What kind of people raise a boy that thinks it's okay to hit women? Cops indeed, if that had happened back when I was in school, that boy would have sure enough been taught some manners by his peers. What kind of world are we living in?

Sarge
 
There have been some good reccomendations here, though the biggest question is what is offered in your area?

Myself, I've studied a couple different arts, and to work on most of them, I have to drive at least 2 hours each way to get to the closest dojo to where I live right now.

My personal favorite for a "quick fix" would be Krav Maga. It's a good art, and you're concentrating more on real life use, rather than the McDojo(I love that phrase, thanks ddean) concentration of belts and competition. Of course, I would also suggest another art as well, such as Tai Chi or Aikido, to round out the education.

All of the arts will help with each other, but when starting out, the worst thing to do would be to study two very dissimilar arts.

This dates back to my high school days, but I was studying Aikido, Kung Fu and boxing at the same time, and I had the hardest time not bringing my legs into play while boxing.

Well, there's my 2 cents.

TC

Oh yeah, thought I should add this, I think krav maga is a good art, and I'm not just suggesting it as the quick fix. The reason I call it that is because it becomes "street effective" quicker, because it doesn't deal with the ritualized neutered combat that is so common in today's McDojo approach.
 
I was certain that I'd find sage advice on this subject due to ya'lls backgrounds, and I most certainly did! I will have to check into a rape prevention/ Self defense class and start looking to sort out the Dojos from the "McDojos" in my area. I had heard vague rumblings about such belt for sale places in the past. how sad.

DDean: I agree that avoidance is best,*if possible*! I had a friend in high school who had a 3rd degree blackbelt in Karate and was hit on two different occasions without retaliation. Excellent self control. He told me that he'd been hit before and he didn't want the trouble associated with hospitalizing the two "Big Men".

Sarge: Same thoughts had occured to me. I was also thinking about rearranging his face and other body parts at the same time. I have simmered down a great deal.

Bruise: My Neice would love to go equipped like a sherpa girl with an appropriate Khuk in tow, BUT those pesky school administrators are not up on the correctness of sherpa girl hosiery accesssories. And they call themselves educators. sheeesh!:rolleyes:

Thanks, one and all, for your responses, and feel free to chime in if you haven't

-Craig

P.S. Ferrous-- I plan to look at those links later today when time allows. Thanks for the info!
 
Hi Craig,

You got already quite a few answers - I sure agree/disagree with some of them. :rolleyes:

I agree on the women SD course - situational awareness is really important and relatively easy to fix in a short time. However, there are differences, so shop around and don't fall for the starkest marketing. You could try rec.martial-arts on Usenet to inquire about organizations offering courses in your area.

After that, carry on with finding a suitable MA. Whatever your niece wants to get out of martial arts, she really needs to like the respective MA to continue training for extended periods - the best MA (there isn't such a thing) and a most willing, dedicated, and skilled teacher (a rare thing) won't help much if she quits soon. OTOH, it is pretty rare for beginners to stay with any given MA - tastes tend to develop (avoid cult-like MAs though!).

IMHO your niece will get most bang for the buck out of any traditional Silat (or Filipino Kali) style. SE Asian martial arts are blade heavy and, let's face it, (most) women, kids, elderly and/or handicapped folks need an equalizer in a serious SD situation. Tussling around with empty hands just won't do it for an average victim. One advantage of the SEA MAs is that weapon drills translate well into empty hand strategies and vice versa (and drills are part of a really cohesive system rather than a "collection of techniques"), so less serious situations like in school will be also covered well. Another advantage is that there are special Silat styles for females - really great stuff once your niece has got a basic understanding from a local teacher (which are a bit harder to find - let me know her exact location and I'll ask around). These arts are definitely not for unresponsible people so any teacher will decide him-/herself wether your niece qualifies for getting taught. BTW, I don't practise Silat myself but still recommend it heavily. OTOH, I have some experience with southern Filipino stuff which has quite some overlap... ;)

Aikido or Taijiquan are great MAs to practise just for the fun of it. But please steer clear off them if SD is a major concern. Aikido is mostly taught in an external fashion and still needs many years to get some practical SD skills. TJQ is even worse and 99.x % of the so-called teachjer don't know what they claim to teach. And the few skilled practitioners in the US don't teach TJQ as an all-out MA anyway since hardly any hobbyist is able to put in the many hours which are plainly necessary to get even an idea of the basics much less fighting abilities. Don't get me wrong, I'm a real fan of TJQ (or neijia in general, including Aikido) but if you're looking for self defense and your spare time is limited by school/college/real life/whatever, they are a bad choice.

If you can't find anything in your area, then give Judo a try - usually even excellent teachers are available for very reasonable fees (and the quality standard among teachers is pretty good). Basically you get core skills which will be easy to expand on once a highly skilled MA teacher of any style of her choice will become available.

Finally, be aware that almost any MA school claims to be great for SD but quite few are actually teaching decent SD stuff. McDojos generally don't.

Best wishes,
kai
 
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