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Martial Arts for My Niece
- Thread starter Cuttin' Craig
- Start date
u know, running away makes perfect sense. i have not resorted to violence since i started martial arts. but its a big difference when i run into somebody in the street who wants to start something and i can just look at the ground and calm him down(avoid eye contact as this provokes the aggressor types, however watch their bodies from your peripheral vision so you know when to make ur move if necessary).
its a different story if u have to meet this person every day, eg. School. then u cant run.
i know this. from 15 until i was 18 i was put in a "special" school in Switzerland basically a collection of kids who got kicked out of other schools due to disciplinary problems. it was located in the notorious "Chreis 5", which was Zurichs answer to the Bronx. instead of gangbangers we hade neonazis and refugees from Yugoslavia and Albania. Neither of these groups was fun, they just hated everybody and where extremely violent. needles to say, sometimes it came to blows and 2 times to stabs. if ur stuck in a school, theres no place to run. kids gtg to school, its not like they can run away and never see that person again.
im against violence. sometimes its needed, but dont overdo it. the stun guns a good idea, just remember, if its her only defense then shes nothing without it. and using a weapon that 1st time is always difficult with all the nerves and adrenalin flowing.
just my 20 cents.
its a different story if u have to meet this person every day, eg. School. then u cant run.
i know this. from 15 until i was 18 i was put in a "special" school in Switzerland basically a collection of kids who got kicked out of other schools due to disciplinary problems. it was located in the notorious "Chreis 5", which was Zurichs answer to the Bronx. instead of gangbangers we hade neonazis and refugees from Yugoslavia and Albania. Neither of these groups was fun, they just hated everybody and where extremely violent. needles to say, sometimes it came to blows and 2 times to stabs. if ur stuck in a school, theres no place to run. kids gtg to school, its not like they can run away and never see that person again.
im against violence. sometimes its needed, but dont overdo it. the stun guns a good idea, just remember, if its her only defense then shes nothing without it. and using a weapon that 1st time is always difficult with all the nerves and adrenalin flowing.
just my 20 cents.
btw. while i dont agree with a boy hiting a girl, i think she was wrong to hit or slap him for blowing spitbals at her. u cant go around hitting ppl. now lets look at this kid. hes joking around in class, granted hes being annoying but havent we all from time to time? now suddenly he gets hit in the face and then gets suspended. he was wrong to punch her, no argument there but i can see how he got pissed.
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- Feb 13, 2002
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Kendo, swearing at people in code "#########" and calling people "twits" is not really what this forum is about. I don't wish to start an argument or a childish name calling game.
In my opinion what you said was stupid but there's no reason to go off your'e head !!
Brendan
In my opinion what you said was stupid but there's no reason to go off your'e head !!
Brendan
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2002
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- 317
Gracie Jujitsu, and *ALL* submission-based arts, while *DEFINATELY* being the deadly arts that they are, in most cases, only effective in the one-on-one situation...
Yes, Brazilian styles are great, with the emphasis on being on the ground, is great for that situation...
However, survival fighting should *NEVER* advocate the use of submissions, groundfighting and extensive grappling. That is where *ALL* submission styles fail. Submission styles like Gracie and "Shooting" (Shootfighting), so often praised for it's performance in the UFC and other tournaments are, like movies, portraying, dangerously, submission fighting as greater than it is. Remember, submission fighting was developed for *COMPETITION*, not for the street. Now I know, Brazilian and particularly Gracie Jujitsu has been tested out and developed on in streetfights, but it's present form is not...
So, what is groundfighting good for? Groundfighting should *ONLY* be your *DEFENCE AGAINST* being tackled or put to the ground, something that (so often claimed) almost always happens in every streetfight. It should *NEVER, EVER* be your sole form of attack or defence, but should be your way out to beat off your attacker and get *UP OFF* the ground, *ASAP*
Yes, Brazilian styles are great, with the emphasis on being on the ground, is great for that situation...
However, survival fighting should *NEVER* advocate the use of submissions, groundfighting and extensive grappling. That is where *ALL* submission styles fail. Submission styles like Gracie and "Shooting" (Shootfighting), so often praised for it's performance in the UFC and other tournaments are, like movies, portraying, dangerously, submission fighting as greater than it is. Remember, submission fighting was developed for *COMPETITION*, not for the street. Now I know, Brazilian and particularly Gracie Jujitsu has been tested out and developed on in streetfights, but it's present form is not...
So, what is groundfighting good for? Groundfighting should *ONLY* be your *DEFENCE AGAINST* being tackled or put to the ground, something that (so often claimed) almost always happens in every streetfight. It should *NEVER, EVER* be your sole form of attack or defence, but should be your way out to beat off your attacker and get *UP OFF* the ground, *ASAP*
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- Mar 28, 2002
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- 317
Modern combatives, like Sarge mentioned, or better yet, Hochheim' s SFCA. His material is unsurpassed, with *THE BEST* of everything taken and included into his system...
Barring that, No Nonsense Self Defence looks promising, should be alot like Hochheim's stuff...
IMOHO, and every self-defence and sane fighter on the earth, Martial Arts alone are totally inadequate, hence the need for modern combatives. The next best thing would be a modern adaptation of any multi-faceted Martial Art that actually works, such as Modern Arnis or Silat...
Barring that, No Nonsense Self Defence looks promising, should be alot like Hochheim's stuff...
IMOHO, and every self-defence and sane fighter on the earth, Martial Arts alone are totally inadequate, hence the need for modern combatives. The next best thing would be a modern adaptation of any multi-faceted Martial Art that actually works, such as Modern Arnis or Silat...
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Real simple,Gunting!! A # of people have no idea about "some" people!
Forget reason, talking ,trying to walk, all the well you should reason & blah,blah! As for this instance, don't know "all" the facts!! Women & giving up!! I won't even dignify that!Relationship with a lady for two yrs. that had been raped!! If you are a guy that thinks reason works,forget it!!Her view "fight"!! Guy served 1yr.!!
My niece is being taught theGunting!!
jim
Forget reason, talking ,trying to walk, all the well you should reason & blah,blah! As for this instance, don't know "all" the facts!! Women & giving up!! I won't even dignify that!Relationship with a lady for two yrs. that had been raped!! If you are a guy that thinks reason works,forget it!!Her view "fight"!! Guy served 1yr.!!
My niece is being taught theGunting!!
jim
Hi Ddean,
I certainly don't - a good teacher of any (traditional) external (waijia) style should be well-rounded enough in his style that he doesn't need add-ons.
Learning real neijia starts out to create a completely different way of generating power (and moving). Learning waijia and neijia simultaneously just results in severe conflicts and stalled progress (if any of the two is the real deal).
That's a myth, a few years will do (for first decent results). However, the drawbacks are: you need to be able to cope with full-time training as well as to find a teacher who (1) is the real deal and (2) really wants to teach you. And getting trade secrets from the Chinese is widely known to be extremely tough...
Yeah, Yoga might be a better choice.
Well, I doubt that. I know of exactly a single person in the US who might qualify for being good at waijia (great) as well as neijia (reasonable) but he would be the first to state that his TJQ skills are not advanced. As a rule of thumb waijia teachers who also teach any neijia style suck at least at the latter. A sad reality, that is.
I beg to differ - what most waijia practitioners understand as "internal" has little to do with what actually is the basic requirement for any neijia style. This "meeting at the pinnacle" theory is usually offered by waijia exponents; however, all top-level neijia practitioners that I know/heard of seem to think otherwise (and most are pretty outspoken about this). I'm not knowledgable enough to definitely decide for myself but for the time being I'll go with the opinion of those with the most skill. YMMV.
BTW, I'm sorry that this thread devolved that much (very untypical for this forum) and won't comment on those emotional postings... :yawn:
Best wishes,
kai
I certainly don't - a good teacher of any (traditional) external (waijia) style should be well-rounded enough in his style that he doesn't need add-ons.
Learning real neijia starts out to create a completely different way of generating power (and moving). Learning waijia and neijia simultaneously just results in severe conflicts and stalled progress (if any of the two is the real deal).
That's a myth, a few years will do (for first decent results). However, the drawbacks are: you need to be able to cope with full-time training as well as to find a teacher who (1) is the real deal and (2) really wants to teach you. And getting trade secrets from the Chinese is widely known to be extremely tough...
Yeah, Yoga might be a better choice.
Well, I doubt that. I know of exactly a single person in the US who might qualify for being good at waijia (great) as well as neijia (reasonable) but he would be the first to state that his TJQ skills are not advanced. As a rule of thumb waijia teachers who also teach any neijia style suck at least at the latter. A sad reality, that is.
I beg to differ - what most waijia practitioners understand as "internal" has little to do with what actually is the basic requirement for any neijia style. This "meeting at the pinnacle" theory is usually offered by waijia exponents; however, all top-level neijia practitioners that I know/heard of seem to think otherwise (and most are pretty outspoken about this). I'm not knowledgable enough to definitely decide for myself but for the time being I'll go with the opinion of those with the most skill. YMMV.
BTW, I'm sorry that this thread devolved that much (very untypical for this forum) and won't comment on those emotional postings... :yawn:
Best wishes,
kai
Kendo
Banned
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2002
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- 245
we were not talking about rape here, this was about a guy shooting spitballs at a niece, who then overreacted by assulting him instead of reporting him.
sounds like fighting didant do much good for your girlfriend cliff,
she still got raped, she was lucky she didant get hurt worse.
i am not a pacifist far from it, flight is the best defense,fight is a last resort. and i am sorry to hear your girlfriend had to go through that horrible experience.
guys dont tend to realise what a very horrible thing it is to be raped.i counter guys who speak of women being raped as no big deal.and that they may have deserved,or invited, or enjoyed it.
with imagine you are walking in the park and along comes 2 burly males who decide to rape you how will you feel ,did you enjoy it ect. THAT USUALY STOPS EM IN THERE TRACKS AND MAKES THEM REALY THINK.
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- May 24, 2001
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- 443
I do not want to step on anyone's toes, but:
I would definitely take serious lessons in full-contact and combine
1) Thai boxing with extreme emphasis on low-kicks, two of them would knock out many men!! Plus knees and elbow shuts. Remember that in order to fight one has to punch for real!
2) Lessons in classical boxing very effective
3) Brazilian Jutusu
4) Free-style wrestling
I would work on stamina as well and you will make her into good fighter my friend.
I would definitely take serious lessons in full-contact and combine
1) Thai boxing with extreme emphasis on low-kicks, two of them would knock out many men!! Plus knees and elbow shuts. Remember that in order to fight one has to punch for real!
2) Lessons in classical boxing very effective
3) Brazilian Jutusu
4) Free-style wrestling
I would work on stamina as well and you will make her into good fighter my friend.
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- Nov 15, 2000
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- 3,708
I've been thinking...
Jim's right, we don't know the entire story with regards to the neice's confrontation.
As someone else said this thread Has Devolved in a number of ways. Kendo, you need to take a deep breath and get ahold of yourself. You don't seem to have learned a whole lot from the last incident IMO. Insults and name calling don't get people to listen to you, on the contrary they cause people to tune you out...tossing insults around is a good way to practice your philosophy of non-violence--you'll have lots of chances to test it out if you insult people to their faces the way you do on the web.
I have run into bad guys and I too have tried placating them by being non-threatening--sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I also was a bully myself in school for a time (learned by being bullied constantly myself--ironic and stupid as that sounds) and I'll tell you what cured me of it---getting punched in the face (HARD) by a kid I assumed to be a wimp in front of everyone--put me in my place.
Is violence the 1st option? No. Is it Never an option. No.
DOn't most MA advocate not fighting whenever POSSIBLE? That's the key word IMO---possible. Sometimes its not possible to avoid a fight. Run away? Great!, if you're fast enough, or in good enough shape to win the footrace that might follow. But what if you're out of shape, ill, or overweight, have a cast on your leg, are in a wheelchair, or are trapped in an inclosed area?
I have learned some interesting things from this thread however. Thanks to those who in the know who shared their info with folks like me who know next to nothing about self-defense and MA
Jim's right, we don't know the entire story with regards to the neice's confrontation.
As someone else said this thread Has Devolved in a number of ways. Kendo, you need to take a deep breath and get ahold of yourself. You don't seem to have learned a whole lot from the last incident IMO. Insults and name calling don't get people to listen to you, on the contrary they cause people to tune you out...tossing insults around is a good way to practice your philosophy of non-violence--you'll have lots of chances to test it out if you insult people to their faces the way you do on the web.
I have run into bad guys and I too have tried placating them by being non-threatening--sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I also was a bully myself in school for a time (learned by being bullied constantly myself--ironic and stupid as that sounds) and I'll tell you what cured me of it---getting punched in the face (HARD) by a kid I assumed to be a wimp in front of everyone--put me in my place.
Is violence the 1st option? No. Is it Never an option. No.
DOn't most MA advocate not fighting whenever POSSIBLE? That's the key word IMO---possible. Sometimes its not possible to avoid a fight. Run away? Great!, if you're fast enough, or in good enough shape to win the footrace that might follow. But what if you're out of shape, ill, or overweight, have a cast on your leg, are in a wheelchair, or are trapped in an inclosed area?
I have learned some interesting things from this thread however. Thanks to those who in the know who shared their info with folks like me who know next to nothing about self-defense and MA
After many years of training in traditional MA's, 'modern combatives' as well as teaching self defense , I can say that most teachers and schools are fakes. The bottom line in most schools is money.
I believe she has to be asked ,is she willing to to learn defend herself and understand that it may entail hurting someone badly?
This is a major question that has to be addressed first. It is a fact that many students become very skilled but can never become good or do a real execution.There are many who cannot or will not do what must be done. If one is to fight and not be willing to do anything to really hurt, then they have created a situation that may now result in more violence to them then if they had just gotten a regular beating.
I believe that if she is willing to learn. She should view a few self defense courses and then you need to select a teacher for private lessons. Many teachers are under a time constraint in a class and cannot give a true analysis of her strenghts and weaknesses and so develop a set of basic defensive and offensive moves. Classes are for the masses and what is flashy and immpressive but not realistic to most situaions. Many such classes are designed to get students for the regualr MA classes.
Each individual is different and an instructor given the limited time frame must work only on several basic moves that can work.As the student becomes more proficient they can learn more moves. This is self defense not attack and kill. They need to know the ways of avoiding most situaions and only use the moves to get away. It may entail taking damage to get the opening but this is what self defese is about.
Sorry for being so long. This is my opinion from my experiences.
I believe she has to be asked ,is she willing to to learn defend herself and understand that it may entail hurting someone badly?
This is a major question that has to be addressed first. It is a fact that many students become very skilled but can never become good or do a real execution.There are many who cannot or will not do what must be done. If one is to fight and not be willing to do anything to really hurt, then they have created a situation that may now result in more violence to them then if they had just gotten a regular beating.
I believe that if she is willing to learn. She should view a few self defense courses and then you need to select a teacher for private lessons. Many teachers are under a time constraint in a class and cannot give a true analysis of her strenghts and weaknesses and so develop a set of basic defensive and offensive moves. Classes are for the masses and what is flashy and immpressive but not realistic to most situaions. Many such classes are designed to get students for the regualr MA classes.
Each individual is different and an instructor given the limited time frame must work only on several basic moves that can work.As the student becomes more proficient they can learn more moves. This is self defense not attack and kill. They need to know the ways of avoiding most situaions and only use the moves to get away. It may entail taking damage to get the opening but this is what self defese is about.
Sorry for being so long. This is my opinion from my experiences.
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Thanks for input, all.
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- May 24, 2001
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I am sorry to say that I only believe in real full-contact martial arts, any martial arts which pretends to be tough with no real combat experience is a no-no for me. A martial art should be put to practice and the rest to legends.
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Oh I see what you mean now. O.K. you are right on that.
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Hibuke,
Do not underestimate Muai Thai and Brazilain Jujutsu. Muay Thai is a very very effective martial art. Problem is when you commericialize an art any art its spirit dies. If you happen to come to Holland, watch the Muay Thai fighters there, one kick of them knocks out 99 percent of men on the street, I am sure! I mean low-kicks.
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This in not true. I personally know several "girls" (women) that could rip apart alot of men twice there size! You want to see some entertainment, go see a female kickboxing match! I have been in Martial arts sense I was 5 years old(19 years total) and I have seen more than a few times a girl take down a man that was trying to do them harm! My wife who is 5 foot 4 can give me a run for my $$ if she was pressed and not to toot my own horn I'm much tougher than the avarage "tough guy"!
I have also taught small grade school girls how to defend themselves if needed and a couple of them over the years have needed it and used what I taught them to protect them selves...even from a boy there age!
Selfdefence (Martial Arts) should be taught to every child with out a doubt!!!!