Maximum Minimalism.

[jackknife]

Carl:

I have a hypothetical question for you ..... Let's say your dad were still around today and he lost his peanut. You offer to furnish him a replacement and lay out a few for him to choose from:

A SAK Classic, a SAK Executive, a Case peanut, and one of the smaller, 84mm SAK Tinkers.

Which do you think he'd go for, and why?

For the sake of this discussion, your dad would be middle aged, and still as active as you remember him when you were a young man.

-- Mark

I can answer that, because dad and I had a conversation about that.

I was in my early 20's, and home on leave from the army. I had left my scout knife that dad had given me at home when I left, as I had heard that things could go missing in a barracks. So I'd taken to carrying the issue MLK knife that the supply room had. It was a lousy knife, heavy, thumbnail breaker springs on the screw driver blade. Then I discovered SAK's by Victorinox. I was beguiled. Perfect fit and finish. All blades and tools opening smoothly without any nail breaking or bending. When I flew home on leave, there was a nice new Vic tinker in my pocket. Once home, after mom's homecoming dinner, and much talk with family, dad and I settled down to chat. Just the two of us. Made plans to go fishing the next day. Showed him my SAK.

He looked it over carefully, pulling out the blades/tool one by one and examining them. Tapped his thumbnail against the red handle. "Plastic." I heard him mutter.

Dad handed the SAK back to me with a non comital statement, and I could tell he was being polite, but he wasn't impressed. Dad was being dad, not wanting to deflate someone else's balloon. He was that kind of guy.

"Okay, what's wrong with it?" I asked.

"Nothing. Really, it's probably a nice tool. Looks great." He said in that non comital tone.

It took a while but I got it out of him. And he never changed his mind either. He was middle age at that point, and lived enough more years that he saw me get married, and he became a grandfather. Three times. But even as an old man, he never warmed to the SAK. What I finally got out of him was, that he really didn't like plastic, and he really didn't like stainless steel. He had the old prejudice from the 20's and 30's when a lot of the stainless steel out really was junk. He never got over it, like a lot of old timers of his generation. And he hated plastic handles. He had grown up when plastic was a cheap imitation of the real thing. To dad, a pocket knife had a bone, stag, wood, pearl, ivory, horn, or some kind of handle that was the real thing. Dad liked the real thing. Wouldn't settle for a 'fake' as he called it.

As for the utility of the tools, I pointer out to him the screw drivers. He said he had a screw driver, his Sear's 4-way. I pointed out the can opener. He said he had a can opener. His P-38 was always in his wallet. I pointed out the tweezers on the SAK, and how they could assist in getting a splinter out. Dad opened up his wallet and unzipped the little compartment that was for change. He plucked out a saftey pin, saying he'd yet to encounter a splinter that he couldn't get out with it. That compartment also held his P-38 and a few large paper clips. Dad always said paper clips were good springy wire to keep on hand.

Dad liked a tool for the job. If he had to cut something, he wanted a knife. If he had a loose screw to deal with, he wanted a screw driver. Dad never liked multitools. There was plenty of them when he was alive. Contrary to popular belief, Tim Leatherman did not invent anything. Multitools were around in WW2 and before. Pilots escape kits and the O.S.S. had little plier wire cutter tools that had screw driver and files on them. Even when I was a kid, I saw adjustable wrenches with other tools and a knife blade folded up in the handle. Many were not well made, some out and out junk. Leatherman just made a high quality tool, and marketed it well. But dad didn't like multi use items. To dad, a knife was for cutting, and a tool for what it was designed for, and never the twain shall meet.

Dad would still pick his peanut. He knew what he knew, and that was that. And in theory I can't disagree much with him. I've danced back and forth over the line with SAK's. But I've never owned a Leatherman until last summer when Karen found a Leatherman wave beside the road as we did an evening walk. It lives in the kitchen drawer, only used sometimes in the house, but never carried. I really don't like it. It's as heavy as a small pistol, a PITA to unfold the tools that clump together. The pliers are so-so, but not up to my Channel Locks. And it has all the charm of a jack handle.

Now as an "older" man, I have to agree with dad.

Carl.

 

[mnblade]

Thanks for that, Carl. Interesting stuff. :thumbup:

I've tried (and failed) multiple times to carry both the P-38 and a Sears 4-way screwdriver. I just never took to them. Both of them poke and scratch my leg when carried in pocket, and I carry a very small wallet (actually, by design I think it's a credit card holder), so carrying them in my wallet isn't an option.

Of late, I've been carrying a small multi (either Leatherman Micra or Victorinox Rambler), plus an Opinel no. 6 or my CV peanut. I also sometimes clip a Gerber Shard onto my keychain. Cheap and handy, but I wish it were a little bit smaller. And of course there's always an LED light on my keys as well as a safety pin.

-- Mark

 

[mdsmith]

Thanks for that, Carl. Interesting stuff. :thumbup:

I've tried (and failed) multiple times to carry both the P-38 and a Sears 4-way screwdriver. I just never took to them. Both of them poke and scratch my leg when carried in pocket, and I carry a very small wallet (actually, by design I think it's a credit card holder), so carrying them in my wallet isn't an option.

Of late, I've been carrying a small multi (either Leatherman Micra or Victorinox Rambler), plus an Opinel no. 6 or my CV peanut. I also sometimes clip a Gerber Shard onto my keychain. Cheap and handy, but I wish it were a little bit smaller. And of course there's always an LED light on my keys as well as a safety pin.

-- Mark

I'm with ya on this Mark. I too have tried carrying the 4 way and P38. I too found the uncomfortable, but more than anything, I didn't find them useful. Most of the screws I encounter are small phillips heads, and many times they're recessed in the plastic or metal that they are holding together. I takes something like the longer Vic classic SD tip, or Micra bit to reach them. I was actually trying to think if I could modify the pen blade of my peanut to work like the SD tip of the Vic classic. If I could pull that off, I honestly don't think I'd need anything else.

 

[silenthunterstudios]

I tried to give my father a multi tool. He would have none of it. He is used to his tools, and though they may be comprised of everything from Craftsman to Harbor Freight specials, he would rather have his "travelin' toolbox". He has taken this toolbox everywhere, and it has EVERYTHING in it.

Except a knife .

However, he grew up working in my grandfathers gas station, and has been out hunting and fishing with his friends and my uncles since he was a little kid. I've seen the peanut I gave him, from time to time in use. He always comments about how that's all he needs in a knife these days. Yes, it has taken many trips through the washing machine .

Now my uncles and his friends want one . Guess I better get busy placing a knife order!

 

[RobbW]

See the smallest "blade" on the 4-way screwdriver? Take a sharpening stone and grind the sides to the same angle as a Philips-head screwdriver. It's by far the most used blade on my screwdriver coin. Funny story: a few years after I did this, I inherited my grandpa's Sears key-coin screwdriver. Guess what his smallest screwdriver blade looked like? That's right, he had done the same thing and I had no idea!!

I also carry a P-38 rubber-banded into the inside of the County Comm Pico Pry Bar--the 2" version. It fits right inside the continuous curve of the pry bar, eliminates all sharp edges and accidental opening of the P-38, and gives me an emergency rubber band to boot.

I'm with ya on this Mark. I too have tried carrying the 4 way and P38. I too found the uncomfortable, but more than anything, I didn't find them useful. Most of the screws I encounter are small phillips heads, and many times they're recessed in the plastic or metal that they are holding together. I takes something like the longer Vic classic SD tip, or Micra bit to reach them. I was actually trying to think if I could modify the pen blade of my peanut to work like the SD tip of the Vic classic. If I could pull that off, I honestly don't think I'd need anything else.

 

[mdsmith]

Thanks Robb, but its not that the 4 way's tip doesn't fit the Phillips heads, its that its too short to reach. See below for clarification. In that picture, the screw I recessed about an inch into the plastic. This seems to be the case with a lot of things I run into.

 

[mnblade]

Thanks Robb, but its not that the 4 way's tip doesn't fit the Phillips heads, its that its too short to reach. See below for clarification. In that picture, the screw I recessed about an inch into the plastic. This seems to be the case with a lot of things I run into.

Same here. This is especially true with a lot of the kids' toys. A 4-way would never work, and whereas you can sometimes make do with the SD tip on the Classic's nail file, not so on recessed Philips screws like this; you can't get the angle. That's why I'm such a big fan of the Rambler's Philips screwdriver tip.

-- Mark

 

[RobbW]

Thanks Robb, but its not that the 4 way's tip doesn't fit the Phillips heads, its that its too short to reach. See below for clarification. In that picture, the screw I recessed about an inch into the plastic. This seems to be the case with a lot of things I run into.

Ahh, gotcha. That is recessed!! lol

 

[Turk88]

I was never a boyscout but did attend and then work at a summer camp in the woods for 15 years. Mostly city kids ages 6-16 attended. Each camp session our tent group would go on an overnight in which we left camp together and ate, slept, built a fire, and experienced the woods. We didn't use tents, though some brought tarps to fashion one, and the campers mostly brought only sleeping bag, pillow, flashlight, and maybe a pocket knife. They just didn't need anything else since us counselors brought all of the food and cooking supplies and some entertainment. I wish we could have enforced the minimalist attitude like your leader instead of only encouraging it because by 5 minutes up the trail the group would be slowing down because of a kid or two and we would have to help them carry all the extras that they had; extra clothes, shoes, blankets, books, tarps, ropes, etc. etc. On the way back to camp on more than one occasion I remember some of those campers saying, "I probably didn't need that much stuff," and my usual response of "probably not, but at least you will learn for later."

 

[jeffwithaj]

Great read and brought back memories. I still have a few scout knives, some users and some vintage that have paid their dues.

 

[Minibear464]

It's kind of hard to eat soup with sticks Maybe if you have a black belt in the art?

You must not be asian. It's perfectly doable, although you wouldn't really be eating soup. You'd eat the things in the soup first, and then drink whatever's left. Or some people like to eat and sip. I think there's a difference in cuisine, since I believe asian soup focuses more on the solids in the liquid soup, and less on the soup itself. But it works pretty well that way.

 

[jackknife]

You must not be asian. It's perfectly doable, although you wouldn't really be eating soup. You'd eat the things in the soup first, and then drink whatever's left. Or some people like to eat and sip. I think there's a difference in cuisine, since I believe asian soup focuses more on the solids in the liquid soup, and less on the soup itself. But it works pretty well that way.

:thumbup::thumbup:

There's a couple of Pho places around here, and our vietnamese friends have shown us how to enjoy a bowl of Pho with just the chop sticks. You eat the rice noodles with the sticks, and then slurp up the soup usng the bowl like a big mug.

Yummy!

Carl.

 

[orca8589]

Dad liked a tool for the job. If he had to cut something, he wanted a knife. If he had a loose screw to deal with, he wanted a screw driver. Dad never liked multitools.

When I was a kid, we had a coffee can under the sink, and it held a pair of Crescent-brand slipjoint pliers, a TL-29 electrician's knife, a little Phillips screwdriver, and an old Ray-O-Vac flashlight. Those are the only tools we ever had in the kitchen, and I can't remember ever needing anything else. Leatherman tools are cool, but I still have regular tools in my drawer.

~Chris

 

[mnblade]

When I was a kid, we had a coffee can under the sink, and it held a pair of Crescent-brand slipjoint pliers, a TL-29 electrician's knife, a little Phillips screwdriver, and an old Ray-O-Vac flashlight. Those are the only tools we ever had in the kitchen, and I can't remember ever needing anything else. Leatherman tools are cool, but I still have regular tools in my drawer.

~Chris

I can relate. I do have a L'man Wave in the kitchen drawer. But if I were do to it all over, I don't think I'd bother buying one. And in the glove box of our car? A pair of pliers + a SAK + the traditional folder in my pocket = a mighty useful and cheap multi-tool.

-- Mark

 

[mdsmith]

The only thing I miss when I don't have a Leatherman PS4 with me is the little pliers. They have come in handy in quite a few instances. I worked with a couple of older guys who used to carry a small adjustable wrench in their back pocket, but I've never found a set of pliers small enough to carry comfortably.

 

[Django.cj]

I can't imagine not having my LM or Spirit on my belt. I feel naked without it.
I have a workshop full of tools, a kitchen drawer full of tools, a garage packe with tools, and toolbox in my truck. None of those are handy when something comes up (and something always does).

As mentioned, those 4 way keychain doodads are worthless with recessed screws (which seems to be what I need to deal with most of the time). Heck my phone weighs more than my LM, so weight isn't an issue. I just love it. As does my formerly chemical engineer grandpa who has a PST2 on his belt.

 

[Raymond1000]

Chopsticks back then? I don’t remember any. We weren’t a foodie nation after the war. Even Chinese restaurants gave patrons knives and forks.

A group of boy scouts in the forties who could eat anything with chopsticks? I’m astonished.

Did Mr. Van serve in Japan after the war? Did he give lessons?

 

[Brian.Evans]

Carl, I really want to meet face to face one day. I was never in the scouts, my dad, being a hard farmer, said something to the effect of "you don't need classes to go play in the woods." So.....I grew up with a shingle hatchet, a copy of "Wild Wood Wisdom" and "The American Boys' Handybook" and whatever nails I could steal out of the steel coffee cans dad had on his bench. Later, we graduated up to a double bit axe. Dad told us to not to take either one back to the woods, but we did anyway. Never got hurt, more lucky than anything else probably. My life was formed back in that 500 yard by 3/4 mile stretch of woods. I spent many, many hours making "cabins," "forts," and "houses." At first we copied from the books, then later tried new things. We played hide and seek where one of us would hide and the other wild track the hider either by himself or with our black lab mix. He had a good nose, for a lab.

The point is, you have to get out there, and put yourself to the test. You have to find that sweet spot in minimalism that works for your situation. I think Horace Kephart had it right; pocket knife, belt knife, axe.



**disclaimer: My son will be in the scouts. I still wish I could have done it.

 

[JB in SC]

My Dad owned one shotgun his entire life, a JC Higgins 20 gauge bolt action. Bought it sometime in the 50's when I was a kid. Never hunted for anything other than squirrels and rabbits. Nothing but No. 6's were ever used. That's pretty minimal.

 

[dmattaponi]

Another good read. Thanks for sharing. I especially like you EDC stories, and can't resist posting a picture.