Thanks for sharing that experience. It will be required reading for my wife and three daughters. It is hard to make people realize why you train sometimes, and even harder as to why you might carry a weapon. The world is full of these people and they always pop up when you least expect them. Good job and be aware!
-
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Me: 1, Bipolar Psycho: 0, Roommate: + 15 stitches on his face
- Thread starter frontsight
- Start date
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Wow! I was at a lunch get together for that other forum on Saturday and was admiring a Hide-Away one of the guys had brought and mentioned that I hadn't seen much from FS lately. I was certainly not expecting to see something like this. Glad you got out OK. Sounds like you did just what you needed to.
Take care,
John
Take care,
John
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- Feb 27, 2001
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- 12,169
Call me skeptical..but I wanna see a police report..I dont believe a word of this B.S. I agree with Dave this sounds like a Advertisment. Kind of like when Tonya Harding was attacked but thank God she had her personal protection alarm..the same one she was the corporate sponser for??
no offense but...
Is there a way you can verify this story?
no offense but...
Is there a way you can verify this story?
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- Apr 3, 2004
- Messages
- 442
You don't know FrontSight Ren... she wouldn't pull our leg on something like this.
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- Feb 27, 2001
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- 12,169
Thats fine if you guys think FS is on the up and up..but I advise caution for FS telling tales like this there have been more stories like this on this forum that have been complete horse manure than stories that have been truth....Im just a guy that needs to quantify something before I believe it..after all this is the internet ya know..
glockman99
RIP Dann, you were a good guy.
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- 21,269
...You mean like the guy who fought-off a Kodiak bear with a Swiss Army Knife?.Ren the devils trailboss said:
..
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- Feb 27, 2001
- Messages
- 12,169
No Im talking about the 18 yr old who fought off the bad guy with his spyderco..or the otherguy who was attacked by a spyderco Civilian..glockman99 said:...You mean like the guy who fought-off a Kodiak bear with a Swiss Army Knife?.
- Joined
- Mar 4, 1999
- Messages
- 581
Frontsight:
Thank you for sharing so openly. Your thoughtful and constructive actions are admirable, and I would be proud of myself if I did the same in your shoes.
Your honest account is very generous, and your description of fear, anger, confusion and doubt both during and after feels very authentic to me, having recently been in a similarly perilous situation.
I learned a lot from my own situation, and I have learned from yours, too. I had considered sharing, but it has always seemed like a big, emotionally draining job. Like you I unloaded on anyone and everyone for a short time after and then didn't want to talk anymore.
I would like to express some concern for your roommate. I think he needs to talk to someone who understands what he is going through and knows how to help him deal with it. The emotional suffering could far outweigh his physical injury in the future. Guilt, fear and anger are common after effects, and if they are not dealt with, they can be crippling. I dealt with it the first time (7-8 years ago) by learning kung fu (not really an answer in itself, but it worked for me eventually - I was fortunate to read a couple of self help books which helped indirectly, but which I didn't read for this reason - and wouldn't have read for this reason). I dealt with it the second time (a few months ago), by analysing what happened, and what I could have done differently at each turn (the skills and techniques worked well, but I could have done better on strategy). I don't think carrying three hideaways is the answer for him (perhaps not a bad strategy for the future, but an unproductive emotional crutch, which wouldn't have made a difference for him in the scenario you described) -- please excuse me if you think this is out of line, but it seems like something that needs to be said.
BTW - I think the Hideaway is a brilliant concept, well executed and marketed and I can't wait to get my hands on (in?) one. Outstanding web site, too.
>>To anyone who doubts the authenticity of this account, that is your perogative, but I believe it. Even if it is a fabrication, I can see enough truth in there that I feel must come from somewhere.
Thank you for sharing so openly. Your thoughtful and constructive actions are admirable, and I would be proud of myself if I did the same in your shoes.
Your honest account is very generous, and your description of fear, anger, confusion and doubt both during and after feels very authentic to me, having recently been in a similarly perilous situation.
I learned a lot from my own situation, and I have learned from yours, too. I had considered sharing, but it has always seemed like a big, emotionally draining job. Like you I unloaded on anyone and everyone for a short time after and then didn't want to talk anymore.
I would like to express some concern for your roommate. I think he needs to talk to someone who understands what he is going through and knows how to help him deal with it. The emotional suffering could far outweigh his physical injury in the future. Guilt, fear and anger are common after effects, and if they are not dealt with, they can be crippling. I dealt with it the first time (7-8 years ago) by learning kung fu (not really an answer in itself, but it worked for me eventually - I was fortunate to read a couple of self help books which helped indirectly, but which I didn't read for this reason - and wouldn't have read for this reason). I dealt with it the second time (a few months ago), by analysing what happened, and what I could have done differently at each turn (the skills and techniques worked well, but I could have done better on strategy). I don't think carrying three hideaways is the answer for him (perhaps not a bad strategy for the future, but an unproductive emotional crutch, which wouldn't have made a difference for him in the scenario you described) -- please excuse me if you think this is out of line, but it seems like something that needs to be said.
BTW - I think the Hideaway is a brilliant concept, well executed and marketed and I can't wait to get my hands on (in?) one. Outstanding web site, too.
>>To anyone who doubts the authenticity of this account, that is your perogative, but I believe it. Even if it is a fabrication, I can see enough truth in there that I feel must come from somewhere.
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- Apr 1, 1999
- Messages
- 468
..but I wanna see a police report..
Ren - When was the last time you saw a police report on this Forum?
I believe Front Sights' credibility and reputation is well established in the knife community, evidenced by her collaborators, such as Ken Brock, Mick Strider, Tom Mayo, Jerry Hossum and Justin Gingrich.
'Nuff said.
Ren - When was the last time you saw a police report on this Forum?
I believe Front Sights' credibility and reputation is well established in the knife community, evidenced by her collaborators, such as Ken Brock, Mick Strider, Tom Mayo, Jerry Hossum and Justin Gingrich.
'Nuff said.
Ren the devils trailboss said:
Did I see it personally? NO, I wasn't there.
Have I seen the police report? NO
Did I get a phonecall from Frontsight at 0300 hours after this happened and she was still upset? Yes. That kind of emotion is not easy to fake.
She is on the up and up. Take it for what it's worth. She has been there and done that in situations that will not be made public here.
If you believe her, fine. If not, that's fine too.
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- Feb 27, 2001
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theoldawg said:
Ive never seen a police report because most of the stories here are just that..big stories..but if you guys vouch for this..then I am a believer..glad no one got seriously hurt..
Ren
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2002
- Messages
- 119
re: verification
No prob - My roommate has a whole stack of papers on this. (edit - see scanned attachments in this and next reply)
What I see in his folder is:
- the official notice from the state saying that they are required to send him the attached victim impact statement that he needed to reply to within 7 days,
- a letter from the attorney general's office
- letters from the Crime Victim Counselor updating him on progress,
- a copy of his Victim Impact Statement,
- something about Civil litigation,
- suture care instructions from the hospital,
- the hospital bill, and his wristband
- a "HIPAA privacy complaint hotline" pamphlet that he was given at the restaurant
It looks like this is everything he has been sent. I'll ask him what he'd be OK with my posting. He will spaz and be mad at me because he feels humiliated over the whole thing and still says over and over again that he never saw it coming, but I'm sure he'll let me scan in and post something.
re: Little Claw
Sharing anything is always tough. Goes with the territory. But the big picture is that others can learn from it.
I certainly did. I've only been in 1 other bad situation, and I had plenty of advance warning (in terms of seconds). This was a all-at-once sort of thing, but it involved much more than what it initially seemed to be at first (a guy fight). I never thought I'd be in a critical situation and not go for my gun. Yes, I love my knife, but I have LOTS of training with guns and am much much more confident with them.
I learned that I do not freeze. I have not, and odds are that I will not ever, "freeze". This is a big deal to me.
Finally, I got some empathy for what it is like as a bystander in this situation, when someone close is hurt.
FrontSight
Edited: Well, I was in the doghouse with my roommate over this for a couple hours "why the do you have to share so d--- much", but all is OK now. In reading his victim impact statement, I didn't realize that he officially credited me with saving his life. ::micro bicep flex:: I informed him that saving his life means he should have to do laundry for the next month. He said he was never sent a police report. I told him he should ask for one anyway. He wants me to drop it, but I think he'll get a copy.
One absolute diff between what he remembers vs what I do - He thinks he heard the psycho's mother say that the father begged police to not let him out that same day, and I am sure she said the week prior. Also timing diff - I'm sure she only said the warning of her son's condition during the instant, and *later* told us the other things (re: the judge not agreeing to commit him and about the other assault) But he thinks he heard all of that at the same time.
These below docs are edited so no personally identifiable or location identifiable info is shared. Anyone who has filled out these forms where I live and certainly any LEO would probably recognize where they are from. I'm fine with that, but not with the random person reading this. I've had to move before, leave a great job and a place I loved because of a different situation and it would be too much to bear to have to do that again. If anyone with more legal experience thinks I should not post any of these please email me. ( If I had actually made physical contact with him, I think that changes everything from a liability standpoint. As it was, I'm certain he never knew I had anything but a screaming voice and a chair.)
I don't think posting this is big deal since what happened was incontrovertable, with so many witnesses, including the psycho's family members, and was so one-sided; no shades of gray.
More attachments in next reply.
No prob - My roommate has a whole stack of papers on this. (edit - see scanned attachments in this and next reply)
What I see in his folder is:
- the official notice from the state saying that they are required to send him the attached victim impact statement that he needed to reply to within 7 days,
- a letter from the attorney general's office
- letters from the Crime Victim Counselor updating him on progress,
- a copy of his Victim Impact Statement,
- something about Civil litigation,
- suture care instructions from the hospital,
- the hospital bill, and his wristband
- a "HIPAA privacy complaint hotline" pamphlet that he was given at the restaurant
It looks like this is everything he has been sent. I'll ask him what he'd be OK with my posting. He will spaz and be mad at me because he feels humiliated over the whole thing and still says over and over again that he never saw it coming, but I'm sure he'll let me scan in and post something.
re: Little Claw
Yes. I felt like I had to repeat it over and over for several hours afterwards. Then, I just shut down and shut up. Then the next day I wrote what I wrote.Little claw said:
Sharing anything is always tough. Goes with the territory. But the big picture is that others can learn from it.
I certainly did. I've only been in 1 other bad situation, and I had plenty of advance warning (in terms of seconds). This was a all-at-once sort of thing, but it involved much more than what it initially seemed to be at first (a guy fight). I never thought I'd be in a critical situation and not go for my gun. Yes, I love my knife, but I have LOTS of training with guns and am much much more confident with them.
I learned that I do not freeze. I have not, and odds are that I will not ever, "freeze". This is a big deal to me.
Finally, I got some empathy for what it is like as a bystander in this situation, when someone close is hurt.
Thanks - I was worried about him a lot at first, but he seems to be moving pretty quickly past it. The small amount of time that the Crime Victim Counselor spent with him helped a ton. She didn't tell him anything I didn't, but it seemed to have a bigger impact on him.Little claw said:
FrontSight
Edited: Well, I was in the doghouse with my roommate over this for a couple hours "why the do you have to share so d--- much", but all is OK now. In reading his victim impact statement, I didn't realize that he officially credited me with saving his life. ::micro bicep flex:: I informed him that saving his life means he should have to do laundry for the next month. He said he was never sent a police report. I told him he should ask for one anyway. He wants me to drop it, but I think he'll get a copy.
One absolute diff between what he remembers vs what I do - He thinks he heard the psycho's mother say that the father begged police to not let him out that same day, and I am sure she said the week prior. Also timing diff - I'm sure she only said the warning of her son's condition during the instant, and *later* told us the other things (re: the judge not agreeing to commit him and about the other assault) But he thinks he heard all of that at the same time.
These below docs are edited so no personally identifiable or location identifiable info is shared. Anyone who has filled out these forms where I live and certainly any LEO would probably recognize where they are from. I'm fine with that, but not with the random person reading this. I've had to move before, leave a great job and a place I loved because of a different situation and it would be too much to bear to have to do that again. If anyone with more legal experience thinks I should not post any of these please email me. ( If I had actually made physical contact with him, I think that changes everything from a liability standpoint. As it was, I'm certain he never knew I had anything but a screaming voice and a chair.)
I don't think posting this is big deal since what happened was incontrovertable, with so many witnesses, including the psycho's family members, and was so one-sided; no shades of gray.
More attachments in next reply.
Attachments
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- Feb 26, 2002
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- 119
The reasons why I described him like that was becausebrownshoe said:
1) The warning I heard verbally in the midst of everything was:
"he's bipolar and he's off his meds"
2) He was verbalizing nonsense and waving his hands above his heads
3) It took multiple LEOs to bring him down
4) When he was handcuffed face down on the cement, he was saying some things that just did not make sense
5) A family member said that a judge had refused to commit him just a couple weeks earlier
6) A family member said that he'd had the police called on him related to a different violent incident just in the past week
Given that data, what conclusion would you draw?
He's probably a good person when he's ok. His family seemed like wonderful people who were completely overwhelmed with what to do about him. They are the ones I think are the worst off in all this.
Hi brownshoe, I believe that from a % view. However, the ER doctor said, that there are actually a lot of EDPs walking around who should be under supervised care, because there aren't enough beds, and judges believe that medicine should work period. He also repeated what the LEO who I used to train IPSC drills with told me - that EDPs are the most unpredictably dangerous of perps (or something to that effect.)brownshoe said:
Yes - The full assault does boil down to 2 very hard and very fast punches.brownshoe said:
But several months later, he's still not healed. (Cartilage in his nose is still messed up)
FrontSight
Edited: Other docs. Crime victim counselor letter, timeframe notice, forfeitue of contact notice, etc.
Attachments
nozh2002
BANNED
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- Jun 9, 2003
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- 5,736
I never was in situation this altitude. But after similar things I remember myself having temporary fobias - like somebody following me, etc... In this case knife in the pocket really helps. Without it, paranoic part of my brain can easily take ower and force me to act strange and unusual - like stop elavator on different level then mine to avoid "trap" viered things like this. And I saw same behaivours on others - kind of post trauma things. But in my case, with knife reasonable part of my brain keeps me normal - like "Do not worry I am armed we do not need extra precautions" and eventually this goes away.
Psyco can be handled psyco way "You are psyco - well I am more psyco then you!". I read about guy scare away psyco with hammer by plastic spoon. He stand against him with no fear and sad "Common came to me, I'll eat your eyes!" and do digging kind of manipulations with the plastic spoon - so crazy guy droped the hammer and run away (from of Eduard Limonov's american memoirs, as I remember). I thing that guy may be very scary of you now.
Thanks, Vassili.
P.S. You did great job! You handle it the best possible way. You save your friend and everybody in this restorant. You should be very proud of youself!
Psyco can be handled psyco way "You are psyco - well I am more psyco then you!". I read about guy scare away psyco with hammer by plastic spoon. He stand against him with no fear and sad "Common came to me, I'll eat your eyes!" and do digging kind of manipulations with the plastic spoon - so crazy guy droped the hammer and run away (from of Eduard Limonov's american memoirs, as I remember). I thing that guy may be very scary of you now.
Thanks, Vassili.
P.S. You did great job! You handle it the best possible way. You save your friend and everybody in this restorant. You should be very proud of youself!
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2001
- Messages
- 2,726
Having thought this over in some detail, I am even more impressed with how you handled the situation. If I had been in your situation I'm almost certain I would have drawn my gun. I don't think I would have actually fired it, but it would have been in my hand. And that would have been a bad response, both legally and tactically.
Picking up a chair, even though you didn't have to use it, may have been the best possible thing you could have done. I hope I will have that kind of presence of mind if I ever find myself in a bad spot.
--Bob Q
Picking up a chair, even though you didn't have to use it, may have been the best possible thing you could have done. I hope I will have that kind of presence of mind if I ever find myself in a bad spot.
--Bob Q
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2002
- Messages
- 119
Ren and Dave - 9 docs are posted in 2 replies above. These are edited so no personally identifiable or location identifiable info is shared, though anyone who has filled out these forms where I live and certainly any LEO would probably recognize where they are from. I'm fine with that, but not with a random person reading this. I've had to move before, leave a great job and a place I loved because of a different situation and it would be too much to bear to have to do that again.
If anyone with more legal experience thinks I should not post some of these please email me. I *don't* think it's big deal since what happened was incontrovertable, with so many witnesses, including the psycho's family members, and it was so one-sided.
I was in the doghouse with my roommate over this for a couple hours "why the do you have to share so d--- much", but all is OK now. In reading his victim impact statement, I didn't realize that he officially credited me with saving his life. ::micro bicep flex:: I informed him that saving his life means he should have to do laundry for the next month. He said he was never sent a police report. I told him he should ask for one anyway. He wants me to drop it, but I think he'll get a copy.
One absolute diff between what he remembers vs what I do - He thinks he heard the psycho's mother say that the father begged police to not let him out that same day, and I am sure she said the week prior. Also timing diff - I'm sure she only said the warning of her son's condition during the instant, and *later* told us the other things (re: the judge not agreeing to commit him and about the other assault) But he thinks he heard all of that at the same time.
FrontSight
If anyone with more legal experience thinks I should not post some of these please email me. I *don't* think it's big deal since what happened was incontrovertable, with so many witnesses, including the psycho's family members, and it was so one-sided.
I was in the doghouse with my roommate over this for a couple hours "why the do you have to share so d--- much", but all is OK now. In reading his victim impact statement, I didn't realize that he officially credited me with saving his life. ::micro bicep flex:: I informed him that saving his life means he should have to do laundry for the next month. He said he was never sent a police report. I told him he should ask for one anyway. He wants me to drop it, but I think he'll get a copy.
One absolute diff between what he remembers vs what I do - He thinks he heard the psycho's mother say that the father begged police to not let him out that same day, and I am sure she said the week prior. Also timing diff - I'm sure she only said the warning of her son's condition during the instant, and *later* told us the other things (re: the judge not agreeing to commit him and about the other assault) But he thinks he heard all of that at the same time.
Would like to think that. The strangest thing about his reactions was when he turned his back to me and walked out the side door, at the moment when I was screaming as loud as I could and running towards him with a chair. I would never turn my back on someone who was screaming and running towards me, even if I were lots bigger. I was certain that I was going to hit him, but when he reacted like that, hitting him would have meant going after him and hitting him from behind, and at that instant I noticed my roommates face bloody, which was clue #1 more was involved (I just saw one punch).nozh2002 said:
Thanks Bob that means a lot to me (because you analyze everything every which way.) I'm just elated that my roommate wasn't permanently hurt, that I didn't freeze, and that I was able to deploy my knife quickly and without looking while I did it and then keep holding on to it. I am happy about it in a "I told you so" way.bquinlan said:
Yep. I just don't think a gun would have "registered" with the psycho in any way, just like I'm sure he never knew I was wearing a knife.bquinlan said:
Next best distracting option was a tray of condiments - either onions or jalopenos to throw at him. Didn't consider that at the time, but did afterwards.bquinlan said:
FrontSight
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- Feb 27, 2001
- Messages
- 12,169
FS
Thanks for sharing this verification information. I apologize for being skeptical. Nothing personal was intended against you or your roomate. I also was not trying to belittle the event in which you were unfortunate enough to have to be a part of. However I was trying to make sure that Keyboard Commandos understand that true BS stories are not appreciated by myself and others. Right now on another place in this forum we have a guy who is collecting, evaluating, writing about covert weapons such as a hideaway as "current weaopns that the bad guys have" this type of fear mongering will only proliferate with Tactical Mall Ninja stories. I recently debunked (with the help of K.V. Collucci and others ) a story in which a guy claimed he had maimed a fellow for life who attacked him . I asked for proof and was given none..I asked for a police report number and in return would mail him a custom from my collection..he dissappeared only to reappear as his "brother" who then claimed the story was for a creative writing class in college..yeah right...
It is important that you shared your story..but for the reasons above its also important that people understand that this story is real and verifyable and that the situation was handled by responsible knife carrying people such as yourself...anyway ....good luck..Im gonna order a hide away...
Thanks
RTDTB
Thanks for sharing this verification information. I apologize for being skeptical. Nothing personal was intended against you or your roomate. I also was not trying to belittle the event in which you were unfortunate enough to have to be a part of. However I was trying to make sure that Keyboard Commandos understand that true BS stories are not appreciated by myself and others. Right now on another place in this forum we have a guy who is collecting, evaluating, writing about covert weapons such as a hideaway as "current weaopns that the bad guys have" this type of fear mongering will only proliferate with Tactical Mall Ninja stories. I recently debunked (with the help of K.V. Collucci and others ) a story in which a guy claimed he had maimed a fellow for life who attacked him . I asked for proof and was given none..I asked for a police report number and in return would mail him a custom from my collection..he dissappeared only to reappear as his "brother" who then claimed the story was for a creative writing class in college..yeah right...
It is important that you shared your story..but for the reasons above its also important that people understand that this story is real and verifyable and that the situation was handled by responsible knife carrying people such as yourself...anyway ....good luck..Im gonna order a hide away...
Thanks
RTDTB
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2003
- Messages
- 1,913
The only mistake I see FS made here is supplying the documentation to the naysayers subsequent to her integrity being questioned.
Brownie
Brownie
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2002
- Messages
- 119
Ren, you're welcome, and I appreciate the apology.
I became used to skepticism early on in the very first forum (a gun forum) I ever participated in. I was talking about my P7M13 with too much intelligence and also how I carry it in my purse holster. The moderator, who is a totally awesome guy, sent me an email saying, "Look, I know you are a guy. We just had another guy pretending to be a girl." Someone also thought it was implausible since a lot of guy's hands aren't long enough to fit P7M13's. I have long narrow hands. From tip of trigger finger to first wrist wrinkle - 7.25". Anyway, I sent him an immediate reply back and said, "Fine, call me", and I sent him my number. Now we are buddies even though I was pissed at him at first, because then I wasn't used to being challenged on everything.
But hey you don't need to order one just to be nice either - each order is too much freaking work for me! (seriously)
Also Brownie, I'm used to being challenged and having to prove myself all the time because of the geek environment that I work in. Last Thursday night I was on a call with Japan to talk about how to analyze a problem that is costing them big bucks. My boss had warned me that when they found I was female, they would immediately disregard, so I started out hard with working in proving myself via my background and education is X,Y,Z.
Back to something more fun, guns & knives, check out my P7M13 with the safety off and on, and with HideAway leather by the amazing Mickey Yurco:
This experience did change how I think about my knife, in that I feel the finish differences between the models less important, and I have less patience with people who want to wait for the exact one if it will increase their wait time a lot, even if they don't have one. I was talking with a buddy who lives nearby who wanted midnight (DLC) not satin, and I said, "As if it really matters! What if you encounter a psycho and need to hold a door pushbar in? Think that couldn't happen aye?" . (I was more honest with him because he is a friend; I wouldn't say that to someone I didn't know.)
The experience made me spend 4 nights writing and testing the "Available Now" code so that my inventory is searchable-by-size so that people would be more likely to find something further down the process pipeline. And it made me take a rare and precious vacation time so I could finish 2 related projects.
Have I mentioned that I'm happy I didn't freeze.
FrontSight
I became used to skepticism early on in the very first forum (a gun forum) I ever participated in. I was talking about my P7M13 with too much intelligence and also how I carry it in my purse holster. The moderator, who is a totally awesome guy, sent me an email saying, "Look, I know you are a guy. We just had another guy pretending to be a girl." Someone also thought it was implausible since a lot of guy's hands aren't long enough to fit P7M13's. I have long narrow hands. From tip of trigger finger to first wrist wrinkle - 7.25". Anyway, I sent him an immediate reply back and said, "Fine, call me", and I sent him my number. Now we are buddies even though I was pissed at him at first, because then I wasn't used to being challenged on everything.
But hey you don't need to order one just to be nice either - each order is too much freaking work for me! (seriously)
Also Brownie, I'm used to being challenged and having to prove myself all the time because of the geek environment that I work in. Last Thursday night I was on a call with Japan to talk about how to analyze a problem that is costing them big bucks. My boss had warned me that when they found I was female, they would immediately disregard, so I started out hard with working in proving myself via my background and education is X,Y,Z.
Back to something more fun, guns & knives, check out my P7M13 with the safety off and on, and with HideAway leather by the amazing Mickey Yurco:
This experience did change how I think about my knife, in that I feel the finish differences between the models less important, and I have less patience with people who want to wait for the exact one if it will increase their wait time a lot, even if they don't have one. I was talking with a buddy who lives nearby who wanted midnight (DLC) not satin, and I said, "As if it really matters! What if you encounter a psycho and need to hold a door pushbar in? Think that couldn't happen aye?" . (I was more honest with him because he is a friend; I wouldn't say that to someone I didn't know.)
The experience made me spend 4 nights writing and testing the "Available Now" code so that my inventory is searchable-by-size so that people would be more likely to find something further down the process pipeline. And it made me take a rare and precious vacation time so I could finish 2 related projects.
Have I mentioned that I'm happy I didn't freeze.
FrontSight