meat eaters

[Marcelo Cantu]

In 1928 two men, Stefansson and Anderson ate nothing but fat and meat for a period of a year. They were monitored by physicians. Labs were drawn, urine analyzed, weight was followed, etc....

At the end of the year, one man had lost 6 pounds, the other 3. Neither man had evidence of any nutritional diseases. Both had normal kidney function. Both had normal cardiac function and blood pressure (one of them was noted to have started the experiment with borderline high blood pressure, but that became normal over the course of the year).

It turns out that meat is an excellent source of vitamins and minerals. Not vitamin C however. And yet neither man developed scurvy. It would appear they were not depleting their vitamin C stores. The speculation is that eating high carbohydrate foods (think ship's biscuits) does deplete vitamin C stores. So sailors living on a carb rich diet without replenishing their vitamin C stores develop scurvy, whereas an Inuit can eat just fat and meat for months in perfect health.

Do you know what kind of meat and fat it was that they ate?

...many of the indigenous arctic peoples, specifically those that rely primarily from the sea, suffer from hepatomegaly (big huge diseased livers), fatty liver, cirrhosis, due to the exponential accumulation of mercury and other pollutants in the meat and especially the fat of pinnipeds and whales that make up a large part of their diet...

 

[Rotte]

Do you know what kind of meat and fat it was that they ate?

As I recall it was a variety of meats. Surprisingly, most of the calories they consumed came from fat.

 

[Coldwood]

Consider the caveman diet, which is what we all evolved from: dead mastodon, berries, fish, tree fruit when in season, seal and deer in various stages of decomposition, mice, lizards and snakes, grasshoppers and stump maggots, ...well, that's what we all grew up on.

 

[Toucan Oasis]

But your prerogative also. Just make sure them berries your eatin are the right ones my friend.

Carl-

Not a problem. All it takes is a bit of time and a fair ability to read.
To deny plants as a food source and not spend the time to learn them is pure idiocy.

 

[forestnomad]

To deny plants as a food source and not spend the time to learn them is pure idiocy.

+1 :thumbup:

 

[Bumppo]

What about eating the stomach contents of vegetarian animals you kill to eat? Would that be a good source of vitamins and minerals you don't get from eating only meat? I believe the movie "Never Cry Wolf" was based on the story of a man who was researching how wolves could live in areas where there were no large game animals, and the conclusion was the wolves got by because they were eating whole rodents, and that also sustained him.

 

[gadgetgeek]

While I'm not sure why scurvy hits some and not others, a buddy of mine (who is ironically in pre-med) came very close to complete liver failure from scurvy in about 4 months. mostly eating wings and drinking beer. dumb, yes, and not a concern in the very short term, but I thought it worth mentioning. Could be that he was already low on Vit C, and the change in diet pushed him over, I don't know.
Point is the knowledge of one plant, and had it been a wilderness situation, he would have been fine. I'm pretty sure that there are not too many actually poisonous north american plants. I know there are a few, and a great many not usable as food, but a quick test would sort it out quite quickly.

A semi related point, there are a few conditions that can be caused by eating certain meats, VitA poisoning from polar bear liver (not sure if other bears could cause it) also large amounts of straight protein requires a lot of water, and there are conditions that can arise from that. Galstones, Impaction, and appendicitis, could also wreak your day in a hurry. simple fact is few of us would do well on a meat only diet straight out of the gate, maybe some, but most would have trouble to some degree.

 

[DWK2]

www.christophernyerges.com is a good place to get some edible plant info/training.

When I heard Chris speak at the Adventurers' Club, Los Angeles, he said that he had found a huge patch of hemlock in the hills near Altadena. He described it as enough to wipe out a small city. He told us that if you see something around our area that looks like parsley or carrot tops, don't consider eating it unless you are thoroughly trained in identifying hemlock.

Chris also pointed out about a dozen safe plants where it would be tough to make a serious mistake if you did some reading and/or took his classes.

DancesWithKnives

 

[Dnalsi]

All domestic meat is not raised the same.
The human "health problems" associated with eating meat have all come from consuming confined / feedlot raised animals.
If you want to learn about eating healthy meat and dairy products:
http://www.eatwild.com/index.html

You know those "ecoli tainted hamburger" scares that happen frequently?
This will explain why:
http://www.eatwild.com/foodsafety.html

Educate yourself and make healthy food choices.

 

[Old CW4]

The length of survival depends on the animal you're eating. Eat only wild rabbits and you'll die in six weeks or so because their meat has no fat content at all. If you have no fat intake for several weeks your kidneys fail. I agree with the meat eaters but with a caveat. We humans are omnivores and, like bears, pigs, and some other animals, able to eat a wide variety of 'foods' to survive, and we should. We can even live a long time and stay healthy consuming only one of several 'magic' food pairs which seem to provide all or most of the nutrients we need. Some of those pairs are beans and corn, rice and fish, and eggs and potatos. Each component of such a pair complements the other and provides essentials such as proteins, amino acids, fats, etc. After that our digestive tracts, the most complex chemical 'factories' in the known universe, take over and synthesize just about every other vitamin/nutrient we need. We were evolved by nature to survive--on meat, plants, fish, and combinations thereof.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Your won't die from just eating rabbit. You'll die if you just eat the rabbiot meat. It goes back to my earlier post: if you also eat the organs, eyeballs, etc, you'll get enough fat to keep you going. If you just eat the parts that are like what you buy in the supermarket, then, yes, you are in trouble.

 

[LUW]

As I understand it — and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong — a man can live almost indefinitely on fresh wild meat. Wild meat is not the same as the farm raised processed meat that most of us get in the supermarket. Apparently almost all, if not all, of our nutritional requirements are met by fresh wild meat. I would think fresh meat and pine tea would keep you running for a long time.

There's really no big difference on surviving on wild meat or on farm animals, and you can almost go on forever only on meat.

All birds are edible

Generally speaking, you can't eat carrion-eaters like vultures and buzzards. Depending on what they ate, they can store some toxins in their meat, that while not harmful to them, can be to humans. Besides, the meat would taste awful.

"I never seen a plant run away from a hungry person."

Very smart person your instructor! :thumbup:
The only problem with eating plants is that YOU HAVE TO KNOW WHAT YOU'RE EATING.

As was stated earlier, most meat intensive cultures eat far more that just the "steaks", eating organs, fat/blubber, bones, eyes, etc.

I won't have hard data to back me up on this, but I think they eat other parts that not just steak meat because they want to and not because they need it, or when they don't have enough steak meat. What is fact is there's basically nothing in organs (heart, liver, kidneys, etc) that is not present in "regular steak meat".

it's impossible to get all the calories/nutrients you need from only foraging. you would have to eat animals to survive for long.

Exactly. Certain amino acids that are indispensable for human life, are ONLY present in meat. So no, a 100% vegetable diet is not healthy nor possible. You can get enough calories from vegetables (though you will need a lot of volume), but you will not get the amino acids.

What about eating the stomach contents of vegetarian animals you kill to eat?

If you killed the animal, eat the meat. More efficient in terms of nutrition, tastes better and way less gross then eating something from the stomach of a dead animal .

All domestic meat is not raised the same.
The human "health problems" associated with eating meat have all come from consuming confined / feedlot raised animals.

The greatest problem with eating confined animal meat is not the meat per se, but how much you eat and and how much fat is in that meat. It's healthier to eat moose meat you killed instead of eating frozen McD's burgers? Of course it is, because moose meat is way leaner then processed hamburger meat. Will you die from eating hamburger meat? No, if that is not all you eat. And of course, if you don't be sedentary- and the not being sedentary part is crucial. A hamburger made with bread, low fat meat that was cooked (not fried), with a lot of lettuce and other veggies, not too much cheese and very little sauces (ketchup, maio, etc) IS NOT UNHEALTHY. It's a balanced meal.

 

[Raisedby wolves]

Someone please give me an example of survival where I eat exclusively critters, and you eat a mix of critters AND plants, and I die but you survive! The only one I can think of is if there WERE NO CRITTERS TO EAT and as far as I know, anywhere there is an abundance of plants, there are animals.

Sorry, I am not buying it. You can live for weeks with NO FOOD AT ALL! What Dungeons and Dragons scenario are are you guys thinking of that is going to leave you stranded long enough for you to actually die because you ate exclusively meat?

I think of survival as SHORT TERM. say 6 months, probably a lot less. I am NOT going to suffer any CRITICAL loss of vitamins in 6 months by eating meat. A scenario that goes longer than that means I am LIVING there, not merely Surviving. THEN I am going to use plants extensively. And build a cabin, and....

Now If the two of us are SURVIVING and you eat the wrong thing, YOU are going to die and I am going to live. I on the other hand, CAN'T eat something poisonous.

Are plants important to a realistic balanced diet for LIVING? Sure, and I eat them all the time, but for SURVIVAL, you are SAFER going with just meat. Not better nutritionally, SAFER.

Another factor that has not been mentioned here is location. It is all well and good that you are all mensa intelligent and such while I am practicing "Idiocy" about the plants in your region, what happens when the plane goes down in an area of the world where your "yummy" plant looks just like the asian plant of death?

So are you sure, REALLY SURE that the plant you are pulling up and eating in appalachia is the same one your going to try and survive on in Oregon? Because I am very, VERY confident the squirrels taste pretty much the same in both locations.

Like I said before, I have eaten plenty of wild edibles, but when it comes to SURVIVAL, I leave NOTHING to chance because ONE mistake will get you killed.

P.S.

You guys DO know that "Gilligans Island" and "LOST" are just TV shows.....Right?

Carl-

 

[Dnalsi]

The greatest problem with eating confined animal meat is not the meat per se,
Actually it is the meat. Read the links I provided.

 

[nemoaz]

You know those "ecoli tainted hamburger" scares that happen frequently?

Educate yourself and make healthy food choices.

E coli won't survive the heat of being cooked.

E coli tained hamburgers come from e coli tainted hamburger cooks, many of whom are being imported from dirt poor provinces certain countries and who have never seen a roll of toilet paper before and have no idea what soap is.

 

[dextersp1]

E coli won't survive the heat of being cooked.

E coli tained hamburgers come from e coli tainted hamburger cooks, many of whom are being imported from dirt poor provinces certain countries and who have never seen a roll of toilet paper before and have no idea what soap is.

Proper food handling is important - take hamburger. E coli can survive on the interior if not cooked well. Also, cross contamination can occur if the utensil has e coli on it - cook the meat properly but the utensil you take it off the grill has e coli. Then there are the hands of the cook and server. When I travel I try to avoid chopped foods for this reason and ask for hamburgers well done. Praying also helps.

 

[LUW]

Are plants important to a realistic balanced diet for LIVING? Sure, and I eat them all the time, but for SURVIVAL, you are SAFER going with just meat. Not better nutritionally, SAFER.

I wouldn't use the term "safer", but "more practical" instead. Nutritiously it would be better to have a broad diet (meat and veggies), but in your scenario it would be way simpler to survive just on meat, since, as you said, it's easier to survive on meat. In the bush, if you want to consume plants, you have to know what you are doing, while for animals you can basically eat everything. Naturally, we are assuming that you have the means to get the meat, of course.

The greatest problem with eating confined animal meat is not the meat per se,
Actually it is the meat. Read the links I provided.

Sorry, but those links are as credible as info on Wiki, at best. Yes, a lot of hormones and medicines are fed to livestock, but not to the point of threatening your life. If that were the case, mortality and diseases would be more common in the US then at Haiti or most African nations.

 

[LUW]

Proper food handling is important - take hamburger. E coli can survive on the interior if not cooked well. Also, cross contamination can occur if the utensil has e coli on it - cook the meat properly but the utensil you take it off the grill has e coli. Then there are the hands of the cook and server. When I travel I try to avoid chopped foods for this reason and ask for hamburgers well done. Praying also helps.

No bacteria can survive in any food if the food is cooked well (and of course, who ever is handling the food does not contaminate it). If you're not sure about sanitary conditions where you gonna eat, do not consume raw foods. The same goes for the bush: if you can, cook anything coming from an animal before you eat. You may loose some nutrients with cooking but it you will gain on safety.

 

[Zombie Zeke]

All furbearing mammals are edible.

All birds are edible

ALMOST all fish are edible.

A good portion of plants can KILL you very quickly.

If I ever get stranded in the wilderness, I'm eating critters. You salad eaters can have whats left of the plant life.

I don't even bother to think about or study edible plants any longer. Pine needle tea or something maybe for vitamin C, but other than that, it's critters beware.

Carl-

That is some of the best, blunt, pragmatic stuff I have seen on this sub forum in months. Thank you.

I was camping this summer in the Sequoia Nat'l Forest and our camp was primitive so one day I took my brother-in-law, neice and wife on a little survival hike. It was about 9 miles round trip and included fording, firemaking, shelter building, fishing, some woodcraft and most importantly, NOT eating plants that you don't absolutely 100%, unmistakenly know to be edible.

Also watching my 10 year old niece eat Carpenter ants was fun

Response to op is indefinitely, you'll get constipated, start to stink of body odor and get some lean sexy abs in the process but meat is neat.

 

[adamajc]

In a long term situation animals have to be included in the diet for the simple reason of take what you can get when it presents itself to you. I find it funny on these survival shows that they are showing you how to survive on like 5 ants and a grub or two. Of course take it but they are starving to death. Meat, has to be part of the diet in order to get enough caloric intake to survive. To survive on nothing but plants one would need to take in a huge amount of material not to mention have extensive knowledge on many species. On this continent I doubt one would have to survive for years without being rescued or traveling to a populated area. If you would it would probably be in either extreme north. Up north you had better take what you can get in regards to plant and animal. The more likely scenario would be on a island somewhere in the pacific. In that situation you had better damn well be taking everything that your knowledge allows you to including birds, fish, plants, large animals if you have any and be ready improvise and learn as you go if you want to have any chance of surviving long term.