Medievil Assault Knife

W

Wild Bill 1896

Joined
Jun 19, 2000
Messages
362
It has started! On the local news, last night, it was reported that a local man had attacked his wife and police officers with a "medievil assault knife". The knife pictured was a fantasy knife from United.

I am trying to contact the station to correct their characterization of the knife in question.
 
Bozhe moi!!!!!! Will it ever end? These people are not just biased and un-educated, they are mental midgets in-capable of becomign educated, and it seems to be getting worse.
help!!!!
I am locking myself into my shop and grinding knives till the end of the world, so I dont have to listen to the news media do this kind of junk!!!

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Morgan Atwood
(formerly known as nim-wit)
If you deny someone the right to defend themselves you are guilty of nothing less than attempted murder.
 
This type of story is exactly why people in the knife industry get the reaction they get. I have shown our catalog to a number of my friends from college and they look through the pages and if the knife isn't a traditional pattern or a kitchen knife they say the same thing every time.

"What would somebody use that for?"

I don't understand the dislike people have for a tool that has been around forever. Those same people would be suprised to know that most stabbing deaths happen at the end of a kitchen knife and not a 'medieval assualt knife.'

Just my two cents.

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Jason Cadden
Webmaster
Smoky Mountain Knife Works, Inc.
 
Hi Wild Bill.

While I don't want to discourage you from trying to correct the media, I've tried this with our local paper and some TV stations when I see "assault weapon" used, or when "assault rifle" is used incorrectly. They almost always have an argument why they used the term. With "assault rifle" incorrectly applied to a semiauto carbine, the reporter just said that that's what the DA called it. I then actually called the far away county's DA office and tried to convince some assistant prosecutor that semiautos can't be "assault rifles," etc.
He just blew me off.

I've tried and tried, and it "don't work." These people are, for the most part, "educated, in the know professionals" (yeah, in their own minds!) and what can you, as a mere member of the "general public" tell them? Why, you are just one of those "right wing militia members" or some other troublemaker who has too much time on his hands.

As feminist (and other) theorists have pointed out, the "power to name" (or RE-name) is the power to change. One or two examples would be petty indeed, but eventually, it all adds up. "Newspeak" and all that.

Hey, in fact, "news"-"speak" is exactly what it is, ain't it?!

On second thought, let me DEFINITELY ENCOURAGE YOU to challenge these talking eggheads! As Leo Daher's quote (from Dylan Thomas?) says, "rage, rage, against the dying of the light."
We need to keep "raging" against these idiots so at least they know we aren't rolling over and submitting to their BS.

I hate to think I'm becoming "intolerant" of any particular group, but why do these idiots have to DELIBERATELY ENCOURAGE my biases against them?

I've also tried leaving my name and number with them after having what I thought were decent talks over the phone. This is particularly true with our local paper, the Columbus Dispatch. I remember one conversation in which I was praised for being very levelheaded and reasonable. I didn't "yell and curse" like some of the gun owners. I let them know that if ever a firearms situation came up and they wanted some accurate info, they could call me and I'd back up what I said with plenty of references (professional journals, etc, NOT the NRA and pro-gun celebrities). I also gave some detail about my college degree, military and weapons training, etc.
Well, I'VE NEVER RECEIVED A SINGLE CALL FROM THESE NICE JOURNALISTS!
rolleyes.gif


And oh yeah, STUPID POLITICIANS, too!
mad.gif


Question: Hey, why don't I sue these people for "causing" my bigotry?
biggrin.gif


Answer: Because, unlike most of them, I don't gots da cash$$$$.
frown.gif


Karl



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"Celebrate the diversity of inclusive, self-esteem nurturing, multicultural weapons arts." Karl Spaulding, The Safety Guy
 
A medievil assault knife with a bayonet lug. Why that's perfect.

Lets face it the language is intentionally selected to create an image. It has absolutely no relationship with the item or event being described.

The message is:

"...There are primative barbarians out there who are armed with deadly knives...."

 
Don't want to play devil's advocate here, but am a bit puzzled by such a reaction to "medieval assault" knife. Medieval simply means Middle ages, roughly 450 AD to 1450 AD. So they missed the time frame?

Ever since my serious interest in knives began, have been unable to understand the "fantasy knife" genre at all. Mostly they look goofy to me, like some cartoonish, Space Age contraption. But, with their multiple blades, all seemingly exaggeratedly pointed, assault is the only use I can being made of them. Of course, am sure that most owners simply exhibit them. (Can't help it, but to me they're monuments of/to bad taste.)

I hear where you're coming from with your concern. But am having difficulty agreeing that this is a terrible misrepresentation by the media. I wouldn't be surprised but what it started with someone using the word "Gothic" or Gothic-like when describing the bizarre knife. Some journalists are erudite enough to use medieval instead of Gothic.

I know the respect Gil Hibben has in the knife community, but have always felt myself that his and the Pakistani "fantasy" knives probably carry an over large share of the blame for knive's bad publicity or image.

My $.02 worth. Please if someone can suggest a utilitarian purpose for fantasy knives, enlighten me. I simply can't think of any other than stabbing.



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Asi es la vida

Bugs
 
Reminds me of a television news story about a bullet bouncing off the windshield of a police car ... the guy who posted about the item on rec.guns said the reporter solemnly described it as a "combat-size" bullet. And of course that kept me up all night thinking about what the other sizes must be ... family size ... economy size ... fun size ...

Now you've got me going again and I'll be awake the rest of the night trying to visualize what other kinds of "assault knife" would look like ... Age of Enlightenment ... Victorian ... Golden Age ... Renaissance ... Classical ... Baroque ... Rococo (that would describe a Hibben fantasy knife rather well, much better than Medieval) ... Romantic ... Pre-Raphaelite ... Modern ... Post-Modern ...

A Medieval assault knife would be a rondel dagger. A Renaissance assault knife would be a stiletto (not the modern switchblade, the old Renaissance sleeve dagger). The sicari was popular with the Zealots (and others) of the Roman Era (a knife with a curve to fit your waist, worn horizontally) ...


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-Cougar :{)
Use of Weapons
 
I don't quite understand "fantasy knives" either, but now I am convinced Gil Hibben should make a special edition "medieval assault knife," complete with bayonet lug for it's companion blade!

While he's at it, a "pistol grip" and some sort of "flash suppressor" attachment would be nice. A Teflon finish will help "prevent fingerprints" and improve it's penetration into "bulletproof (sic) vests."

And make it "combat sized."
biggrin.gif


Primitively, atavistically, and barbarically yours,

Karl

[This message has been edited by Safety Guy (edited 04-21-2001).]
 
yeah yeah. a bayonet lug and a splash suppressor.
smile.gif


ha ..... see if you can say "splash suppressor" three times real fast, without it becoming "splash shuppresshor"

 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Safety Guy:
A Teflon finish will help "prevent fingerprints" and improve it's penetration into "bulletproof (sic) vests."

And make it "combat sized."
biggrin.gif


Primitively, atavistically, and barbarically yours,

Karl
</font>
Click to expand...

Make that "improve its penetration into arrow-proof armor" and make it "tournament sized". Well, didn't King Arthur carry a 'Dragon Lord' knife? Or was that just a 'Dragon Pen Knife'?
 
Bugs-

"My $.02 worth. Please if someone can suggest a utilitarian purpose for fantasy knives, enlighten me. I simply can't think of any other than stabbing."

The same can be said of any knife by non knife people. The fact of the matter is, any knife, whether it falls under the description of "fantasy" or not, all have the same basic utalitarian abilities.
I am a collector of Hibben's fantasy knives and the only difference between them and other knives, aside from lower quality materials, is that they look cooler. Granted, this is fodder for media hype but that is to be expected.
As far as fantasy knives go, I like knives because I am a knife enthusiast. I could care less for paintings by some of the "great painters" that look like they could have been fingerpainted by a third grader. My taste in art is for art knives and I appreciate the work many have done in this field. I have a collection of over 400 knives and swords, many of them users and many of them wall hangers. I find it interesting that a maker can take a simple tool design and turn it into a work of art.
My point is, a knife is a knife, regardless of what it looks like and all have the same purpose regardless of what the user chooses to use it for. A kitchen knife, a Hibben knife, a Cold Steel Kukri, a Buck skinner... they can all stab someone or they can all whittle a stick or skin game. To suggest that there is a knife that can do nothing but stab is ludicrous and it also feeds the paranoia of the public that this type media feeds upon.

Peace-
Cam
 
Cam -- I guess my imagination is just more limited than yours. I've not spent much time looking at fantasy knives. The few I've noticed would not safely whittle a stick -- at least with me holding either the knife or the stick. Am also unable to see myself skinning an animal with one of the multi-bladed, 12-pointed things I've seen.

As Ed Fowler pointed out in one of his articles in Blade, bread knives don't need a point, and many don't have them. Many machetes don't have what could be considered a point. I tend to see a point as necessary to effective stabbing. I'm afraid I can't agree with you that all knives have exactly the same purpose. If there was only one purpose for knives, I believe all would look pretty nearly alike. The vast bulk of everything written on these forums is focused upon differences in knives.

I'm sorry, but I remain unable to figure out a utilitarian use for fantasy knives other than assault. I fail to see how my lack of imagination contributes to newsmedia hype or to paranoia in the general populace. The purpose of my first post in this thread was to suggest that the news media did NOT in fact go overboard on hype in the quote mentioned.

It is my guess that the fact it was a fantasy knife used in the article which began this thread left the newspeople who saw it at a loss for words, hence the choice of "medieval assault knife" wording. Were I in their shoes, I'd probably have said "space age assault knife." I simply don't see any media or politically correct scheme or conspiracy to fear here.

Peace to you as well, Cam,


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Asi es la vida

Bugs
 
I will try to clarify...
In my initial statement, I said that knives possess the same ABILITIES, not purpose. I understand that different knives are designed to perform different tasks, but in my later statement that knives are designed for the same purpose, that was a generalization that all knives are designed to CUT, period. You are correct... There are better implements than a fantasy knife to whittle with and to skin game with, but on the same hand, there are also better implements to stab someone with. Still the fact remains, a "fantasy knife" will do all of the above in a pinch. Technically, a machete is not a knife.
I can look at a screwdriver and say to myself, "I can't see any use for that other than driving screws" but the fact remains that I can also stab someone with it, or a pencil for that matter. My point is that a knife, no matter how ornate or intricately or extravagantly designed, is still just a knife and, while limited in its uses, CAN perform the tasks expected of ALL knives, regardless of whether or not there are better designs suited for certain tasks. A knife is a knife and non knife people look at my BM710 and say to themselves, "I can't see any use for that except to stab someone". The fact is, I can do anything with my 710 that they can do with all their kitchen knives, which to them seem so benign. It's kind of like when all general knife people get offended when "knives" are lumped into some malevolent pile and labelled as "nothing but weapons", myself, as a fantasy knife enthusiast, was sort of put off when they were lumped into a similar sub-category.
BTW- I don't use any of the fantasy knives, especially for stabbing someone ;-). They are basically just to look at. If I was going to stab someone, I would use something a lot less expensive and better suited to the task, like an ice pick.

Peace-
Cam
 
The purpose of fantasy knives is to be an art object, albeit a very tacky one.
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People normally hang them on the wall and look at them. They really have no utilitarian value, aside from the theoretical use of cutting things. You might want to cut a stick with one, or you might want to cut a human with one, but since they are, by definition, "fantasy" knives, they would perform relatively poorly at either of those tasks.

However, even if we grant that fantasy knives are weapons and that their sole purpose is to kill or injury living things, then does that necessarily make them "assault" knives? Remember, assault is against the law. Can these knives only be used to break the law? Could you not use a weapon in a wholly legal and moral manner, perhaps in defending yourself or your family?

- Off to shop for a Pre-Raphaelite Assault Knife with laser sights.
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Cerulean

"The hairy-armed person who figured out how to put an edge on a suitable rock made it possible for us to be recognizably human in the first place." - J.K.M.

[This message has been edited by cerulean (edited 04-22-2001).]
 
Cerulean explained fantasy knives. They are ART. Or FANTASY. Or whatever the purchaser wants them to be for. This does not mean the purchaser wants to commit an assault, which is what the anti-self-defense establishment is implying by using the perjorative term "assault knife."

I don't care for "fantasy knives." I often laugh at them. However, I don't look down upon them as being useless or evil. Heck, I plan to buy certain blades because some of my fictional characters have them. I'm modifying my Government Model .45 for use in "the future" according to my own fictional fantasy. Nothing as weird looking as a Hibben knife, but simply to fit into my book!

The important thing here is to realize that the antis will try (consciously or otherwise) to split us apart and take us out piece by piece. Fantasy knives may be what they start with, but before long, the combat customs will be suspect, and then who knows what else?

With the exception of "assault rifle," which has a relatively clear definition and etymology (from the German "Sturmgeschutz"), anything with the appendage "assault" is probably an attempt to demonize and then outlaw.

When someone calls a knife, gun or club an "assault" _______, then we need to ask what assault has occurred or was intended. The antis call my M-1`Carbine an "assault weapon," but I call it a "defensive rifle." Considering that I have never assaulted anyone, and I don't intend to, I believe my nomenclature is accurate, while theirs is faulty. In fact, all my weapons are defensive in nature, even my Garand (to defend my country in that unlikely event, and to give me a kind of ritual status as A CITIZEN and not a "subject").

You may not like "fantasy knives, but so what? They ARE knives, and once they are demonized, then the antis will have their evil little feet in the door to going after the others.

We need to all work together to stop this nonsense. Free people who are responsible should have minimal, if any, intrusion upon what tools and small arms they own. And as "knife people," or "gun people," or "ko-budo" people, we should all stick together to recognize our common interest in the right to protect ourselves with arms.

History is littered with oppresive governments who wound up calling the shots.

WE THE PEOPLE need to be calling the shots here in the U.S. If we fail, the whole world will suffer much more than it already is.

Karl
 
Back to the media side of the story - our media has degraded rapidly, in my opinion.

Instead of making every effort to provide accurate and unbiased reporting (like check out sources carefully), our media thinks they need to be the first to get the story out. Hence, they sensational the snot out of everything they can for ratings. Ratings, ratings, ratings. Just watch any of the dummies they have when the teleprompters go down, they stutter and stammer like idiots. A far cry from the journalists of old.

Here in Denver they even try to sensationalize the weather to get more viewers. In the winter they prominently display the wind chill factor as if it were the actual temperature - it looks colder...

A catchy name goes a long way toward their goal of snaring viewers, in my opinion. Road rage, assault <whatever>, deadbeat dads, the list goes on.

That is why I hold the left wing media in such low esteem.

[This message has been edited by swede79 (edited 04-22-2001).]
 
First, let me say that the word assault when used in conjunction with any weapon usually refers to the military attack tactic and not to the criminal offense. Perhaps its convinient to some to promote a missinterpritation. An assualt rifle is a tool that tends to be used in conjunction with the tactic. It is not a tool intended for, and certainly not the best choice for, commiting a criminal act.

I have never heard of any assault knife. Man has not conducted major combat with knives since Cro-magnum took on Neathertals. There are combat knives issued to troops, but they are usually used for camp chores, only rarely are these used defensively, and almost never are they used offensively.

Fantasy knives are abstract works of art. A real Hibbens fantasy knife will run for $5000 and up. Prices of $10-15,000 for these knives are common. They are not intended to be practical knives, any more than a Picaso rendering of a fruit bowl would look remotely like a fruit bowl. But, they are certainly not weapons. They are made simply becuase they can be; and they are ideally suited to demonstrate the talents and imaginative ability of the artist in forming metal into uniquely pleasing shapes.

 
I contacted the station and explained their error. The young lady on the phone said she would tell the news folk. However, during the next days news they again refered to the knife as a "medieval assault knife".
I again called the station and spoke with the same young lady, expressing my concern with their inaccurate and somewhat inflamatory choice of words. She said that was what the police had called the knife, and people don't know the difference or care, anyway. I tried to explain the value of truth and accuracy but she cut the call short.

I apologize for misspelling medieval in my original post.
 
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